ROTATION
Why must I build it??????
- Location
- South Africa
ultimite ignition system
- Thread starter Dragonfly
- Start date
waxhead
wannabe backflipper
- Location
- gold coast
i would want to run a combo of the top blue combined with the top red one
Mouthfulloflake
ISJWTA member #2
- Location
- NW Arkansas
Wax,
I have often wondered, possibyl you can answer this.
why dont all ignitions retard below 600rpm or so, to aid in easier engine starting?
I have often wondered, possibyl you can answer this.
why dont all ignitions retard below 600rpm or so, to aid in easier engine starting?
I'm running a advent in a limited sxr. Last year I had 2 bad boxes before I got a good 1. Waste a whole season chasing problems. 1st box in May and finally got a good box in Sept.
This year the box worked great. Have about 50hrs on it. I swap between 2 curves. It is much better than running the advance plate and limited legal
This year the box worked great. Have about 50hrs on it. I swap between 2 curves. It is much better than running the advance plate and limited legal
waxhead
wannabe backflipper
- Location
- gold coast
The good ones do
the lesser ones dont as its cheaper to not have that as an option
the inferno will not throw in alot of advance untill 700rpm on the sxr
below that you can not change it
its about 15 degrees to help starting
the superjet one is 1500
this is because of the way the pickup system works in a superjet
i can turn it on lower but its easier on things this way
and it makes them idle alot better
I used to have a vilder in my superjet and it worked good.When I went super-stock I tried it first, but later went MSD .It hit much harder and this with similar curves. In my opinion if BEST is more response you can't beat the MSD total loss it plane out accelerates any programable single fire ignition. My friend had an advent with a total loss flywheel from jetworks and with proper curves on his SXR and it ran good but his friend's MSD SXR hits a bit harder yet. It hit harder considerably harder. Most (not all) superstock racers dont use MSD on the 800 SXR. It makes the boat too hard to handle in a race course.
waxhead
wannabe backflipper
- Location
- gold coast
question to you
did your vilder have a lightweight flywheel
ecause the msd has a lot lighter flywheel then the stock and of course it will hit alot harder than a vilder
did your vilder have a lightweight flywheel
ecause the msd has a lot lighter flywheel then the stock and of course it will hit alot harder than a vilder
scottie mac
X-
I used to have a Vilder in my limited SJ, and liked it. But for Superstock, I don't think it can hold a candle to the power of an MSD. Case in point, two of my buddies have the exact same motors, same set ups, same pipes, same cards. One has a new Vilder CDI AND the Vilder Flywheel, which is almost as light as an MSD flywheel. The other has a full TL set up. There is NO comparison, the MSD hits harder, revs faster and plain out performs the Vilder. Real world examples. There is a reason why every major motor builder uses MSD TLs in their set ups. I am not going to say it is the most reliable set up out there, but a lot of MSD reliability problems are self iinflicted.
Scott
Scott
I have to agree with scott on this one. When I had the vilder it was on a ltd first. It was an advantage over the boats that did not have one but it was not a big advantage. In ltd you could not change the flywheel. When I went superstock the diff compared to an msd could not be made up with a lightweight flywheel. The 800sxr with the total loss flywheel which is very similar to the weight of MSD flywheel still does not hit as hard as the msd. The msd makes carbs easy to tune, the ignition burns even richer mixtures that would blubber on the advent or vilder. You can get away with less compression as well. The only downfall is it become more violent in in some cases for closed course racing could mean more fatigue and poss mistakes.
waxhead
wannabe backflipper
- Location
- gold coast
And these boats all had the same curve ??
with the vilder and the msd ??
with the vilder and the msd ??
waxhead
wannabe backflipper
- Location
- gold coast
I have found huge gains in playing with ignition curves
but of course there is only so much you can gain with an mod
the ignition curves would have to be identical to make a judgement as to what is better or not
I have found 2 degrees down low can make a large difference as to how your ski comes on
but of course there is only so much you can gain with an mod
the ignition curves would have to be identical to make a judgement as to what is better or not
I have found 2 degrees down low can make a large difference as to how your ski comes on
waxhead
wannabe backflipper
- Location
- gold coast
I have tried usung 2 different curves
the down side i have found with that is i tune my carbs to one curve and when i change my curve the jetting requirements change
i jet my race skis with large jets and alot of timming to make them scream off the line
when i reduce the timing to make it smoother it cant burn the fuel
I guess when you start off with a good curve you can only get small gains
much liek when you change between different aftermarket pipes and different aftermarket carbs
I like to play around and get the most out of my boats
i
I have also found that bringing timing back in after the pipe torque peak the engine will rev on longer
I am unable to do this with an msd and so loose top end
which is why i liek a programable ignition system
But different strokes for different folks
the down side i have found with that is i tune my carbs to one curve and when i change my curve the jetting requirements change
i jet my race skis with large jets and alot of timming to make them scream off the line
when i reduce the timing to make it smoother it cant burn the fuel
I guess when you start off with a good curve you can only get small gains
much liek when you change between different aftermarket pipes and different aftermarket carbs
I like to play around and get the most out of my boats
i
I have also found that bringing timing back in after the pipe torque peak the engine will rev on longer
I am unable to do this with an msd and so loose top end
which is why i liek a programable ignition system
But different strokes for different folks
scottie mac
X-
We put the timing curve we were using with the MSD in the ski with the Vilder flywheel/cdi set up and there was still a huge difference in terms of hit and power.
Scott
waxhead
wannabe backflipper
- Location
- gold coast
ok fair enough
i just wanted to make sure the curve was the same
i cant explain it as to why it was a huge difference at all
i just wanted to make sure the curve was the same
i cant explain it as to why it was a huge difference at all
Was the timing checked with a timing light? Sometimes the indicated timing by MSD isn't spot on.
crammit442
makin' legs
- Location
- here
It's the "MSD" in MSD. Multiple Spark Discharge. The potential for a fuel/air charge to ignite will vary from stroke to stroke. Short duration, single sparks may fire in a lean or rich pocket of this charge and not ignite. Long duration, multiple sparks give you a much greater chance of finding a pocket of fuel/air that is ready to burn. This is why a much richer or leaner setting can be run w/MSD. MSD was created trying to figure out how to ignite "lean burn" mixtures for emission reasons. Single sparks didn't do it, but multiple sparks did. Hope that makes sense.:dunno:
Charles
waxhead
wannabe backflipper
- Location
- gold coast
the msd part was only developed to help high alchol engines run
and they are only msd till about 4000 rpm
unless you have a problem with not igniting then extra spark is a waste of time
the alchol cars were having this issue and that why msd was developed
ie magnetos etc
if you are trying to find a pocket of air that ready/ easier to burn then you need to look at your squish clearance etc as its not right and
the msd will then maybe and i say maybe hide another issue thats if it s happening below 4000 rpm where the msd is actually really doing the multi spark
I have never had an issue with not firing a set of plugs with any jetski ignition that was related to the cdi
so this can not be the issue
and they are only msd till about 4000 rpm
unless you have a problem with not igniting then extra spark is a waste of time
the alchol cars were having this issue and that why msd was developed
ie magnetos etc
if you are trying to find a pocket of air that ready/ easier to burn then you need to look at your squish clearance etc as its not right and
the msd will then maybe and i say maybe hide another issue thats if it s happening below 4000 rpm where the msd is actually really doing the multi spark
I have never had an issue with not firing a set of plugs with any jetski ignition that was related to the cdi
so this can not be the issue
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crammit442
makin' legs
- Location
- here
I believe you may be mistaken about why MSD was invented. Proper squish clearance or not; there will ALWAYS be varying lean/rich areas in a given fuel/air charge. The difference in hit felt when using MSD total loss is partly attributable to this. This is also one of the reasons that carb tuning is so forgiving when using MSD TL. It's hard to get carbs to load up with MSD.:biggthumpup:
Charles
MSD IGNITION HISTORY
Autotronic Controls Corp. (ACC) was founded in 1970 as a research and development company by two engineers from White Sands (New Mexico) Missile Range. The men and their other partners were working on a lean burn fuel system called the Electrasonic Fuel Induction system to help fuel economy of new and older automobiles.
As the new fuel system was being perfected, the air/fuel mixture was becoming so lean that it was difficult for conventional breaker points and early electronic ignitions to ignite it. The men of ACC then started investigating a new ignition system by using modern technology called capacitive discharge (CD). The CD design opened another door for the ignition, the capability to spark multiple times.
ACC has produced the best performing and most popular performance ignitions for over 20 years. The high energy spark of the CD design combined with multiple sparks resulted in a potent ignition. Not only did the multiple spark discharge (MSD) ignite the lean fuel mixture, it made overall improvements in the engine's performance! Improved starting, smooth idle, less emissions and more power are benefits every car and truck can take advantage of, especially race cars.
Professional racers learned of the new MSD quickly and soon word spread throughout the racing world. Since then, MSD Ignition Controls have gone on to be the ignition of choice of the top professional drivers in NHRA, IHRA, NASCAR, World of Outlaws, DIRT, SCORE, IDBA and many more.
Today MSD Ignition encompasses over 84,000 square feet! There are over 400 employees including an excellent core of highly trained engineers, technicians, assembly specialists and a host of performance enthusiasts.
Together, our team designs, develops, tests and manufactures the entire line of MSD products including Ignition Controls, Coils, Timing Accessories and Spark Plug Wires and Accessories. MSD, housed in three buildings includes four engine dynos, two chassis dynos, complete CNC and machining centers, modern shipping and packaging areas plus assembly and burn-in departments.
MSD Ignition products are the finest ignition components you can install on your car whether it's a daily driver, dirt tracker, 4-wheel drive, a seven second Pro Stock car or Big Foot. MSD is your exclusive performance ignition company and we thank you for your interest and support.
We'll see you at the races!
Charles
MSD IGNITION HISTORY
Autotronic Controls Corp. (ACC) was founded in 1970 as a research and development company by two engineers from White Sands (New Mexico) Missile Range. The men and their other partners were working on a lean burn fuel system called the Electrasonic Fuel Induction system to help fuel economy of new and older automobiles.
As the new fuel system was being perfected, the air/fuel mixture was becoming so lean that it was difficult for conventional breaker points and early electronic ignitions to ignite it. The men of ACC then started investigating a new ignition system by using modern technology called capacitive discharge (CD). The CD design opened another door for the ignition, the capability to spark multiple times.
ACC has produced the best performing and most popular performance ignitions for over 20 years. The high energy spark of the CD design combined with multiple sparks resulted in a potent ignition. Not only did the multiple spark discharge (MSD) ignite the lean fuel mixture, it made overall improvements in the engine's performance! Improved starting, smooth idle, less emissions and more power are benefits every car and truck can take advantage of, especially race cars.
Professional racers learned of the new MSD quickly and soon word spread throughout the racing world. Since then, MSD Ignition Controls have gone on to be the ignition of choice of the top professional drivers in NHRA, IHRA, NASCAR, World of Outlaws, DIRT, SCORE, IDBA and many more.
Today MSD Ignition encompasses over 84,000 square feet! There are over 400 employees including an excellent core of highly trained engineers, technicians, assembly specialists and a host of performance enthusiasts.
Together, our team designs, develops, tests and manufactures the entire line of MSD products including Ignition Controls, Coils, Timing Accessories and Spark Plug Wires and Accessories. MSD, housed in three buildings includes four engine dynos, two chassis dynos, complete CNC and machining centers, modern shipping and packaging areas plus assembly and burn-in departments.
MSD Ignition products are the finest ignition components you can install on your car whether it's a daily driver, dirt tracker, 4-wheel drive, a seven second Pro Stock car or Big Foot. MSD is your exclusive performance ignition company and we thank you for your interest and support.
We'll see you at the races!
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