superjet engine cutting off after a lil wot run lean seizure?

2006superjet

just one more part....
Location
costa mesa ca
do i need

if i do that need any parts or just open it up and clean them and put them back in. i wull go over it all tomarow.
this is kinda crazy and i know its somthing stupid cause it was working then took it all apart and now its messed lol. we will see
 
if i do that need any parts or just open it up and clean them and put them back in. i wull go over it all tomarow.
this is kinda crazy and i know its somthing stupid cause it was working then took it all apart and now its messed lol. we will see

if they have been apart recently, you shouldnt need anything. however, if its been over a year or so, you may need to get 2 carb kits and base gaskets.

if youre lucky, youll only need a wrench, screwdriver and a few beers.
 

2006superjet

just one more part....
Location
costa mesa ca
lean

i read this article

so factory pipe gave me new larger jets but since i run 35 ada dome head do i need to install anything else anyone have this happen to them and had to go up in needle and seat sizes???

Seizure by running out of gas - as many people already know, a larger size needle and seat must often be installed into a carburetor to contend with the increased fuel demands of a moderately modified engine. If a modified engine is operated at full throttle with a stock size needle and seat, it will usually carry full rpm for about 2 or 3 seconds and then shut off as if someone hit the kill button. When the machine comes to a stop, the rider touches the start button to see what the problem is. The engine, no longer in fuel deficit caused by the undersized needle and seat, unexpectedly starts right up.

This instant high speed shut off is caused by the carburetor literally running out of gas. It is sometimes implied that during this shut down moment of fuel starvation, the engine is also starved of the oil that is pre mixed in. This perceived oil starvation is then blamed for any subsequent piston scoring or seizure. Watercraft pistons do not seize in this way...ever.

At the moment that the fuel starved engine shuts down, combustion and all the heat associated with it "ceases". Unlike a motorcycle whose rear wheel traction continues to move the pistons in the bores at a very high "friction causing" speed, the propeller and pistons in a fuel starved watercraft stop turning almost instantly. The heat and movement friction that can cause seizure are virtually non existent in a fuel starved watercraft shut down. This same concept applies to any machine that simply runs it's main tank dry before having to switch to reserve.

It is possible for a rider, whose carb has an under sized needle and seat, to induce a piston seizure. However this would require a great deal of combined skill and stupidity. Once the rider has established that extended full throttle operation causes his engine to quit, he might make the very poor choice of only applying enough high speed throttle to avoid starving the engine. When he does this, he will be capable of maintaining about 90% throttle which will hold the engine endlessly on the lean thresh hold of fuel starvation. As this rider eventually masters this throttle position, he will be able to maintain a very high rpm with the carb feeding a horrifically lean mixture. Ultimately his finesse will be rewarded by one of the most abrupt and destructive lean mixture seizures that his mechanic has ever seen.
 

2006superjet

just one more part....
Location
costa mesa ca
oh

and i am missing one intake gasket somwhere above the intake manifold. would a missing gasket cause this. also i may go get alll new gaskets and tear down the carbs for any possible crap in the filters and maybe even leave the filters out. or somthing can be clogging the jets.
 
My 05 doesnt like to run on reserve it will cut out,fill the tank and flip back to run and its good. I was thinkin maybe my pickup is on the bottom of the tank?! My ski was cutting out real bad before I rebuilt the carbs last year.The internal filters were full of junk.

Good luck
 

2006superjet

just one more part....
Location
costa mesa ca
ya

well if it was a pickup problem then it wouldnt it wouldnt start up instatly after it died. so you have an 05 and the internal filters were full of crap. hmm mines an 06 and never even check that yet, can i remove them if i get to it.
 

2006superjet

just one more part....
Location
costa mesa ca
ok

ill do that tomarow afternoon and take lots of pics on the process. so can i run no internal filter or what!! need to know before i do it. oh and do i need new gaskets
 

2006superjet

just one more part....
Location
costa mesa ca
or

maybe i should do a full rebuild on both. since i am taking them apart anyway. the cost of a kit is like 50 each is it really worth it or should i take them down and then if its bad and needed then go out and get the parts.
 
When it dies does it turn over right away when you try to start it?

If your missing a gasket below the carbs you have an air leak and will cause a problem...
 

Mike W

Infidel
Location
North Florida
What is your jetting? if you still have stock jetting then that might be your problem. This is what it should be:
70 pilot
135 main
95gm (dull silver) spring
1.5 needle and seat (stock)
H/S screw 1 1/2 turn out
L/S screw 1/14 turn out

This jetting is dead on but you will still have to fine tune. I have the same setup as you so this will work.
 

#ZERO

Beach Bum
Location
Florida - U.S.A.
If you have a fuel pressure gauge handy, install it with a T-fitting between the carbs and verify this is a fuel problem.

When you say "before my build", what exactly did you do to this engine other then bolting on parts? :thinking:

Give us some more details of the build.
 

showmepro1200

ISJWTA Member #007
What is your jetting? if you still have stock jetting then that might be your problem. This is what it should be:
70 pilot
135 main
95gm (dull silver) spring
1.5 needle and seat (stock)
H/S screw 1 1/2 turn out
L/S screw 1/14 turn out

This jetting is dead on but you will still have to fine tune. I have the same setup as you so this will work.

MikeW: That said, what is the stock jets/spring/needle and seat on a 2002 SJ? I am going to have almost exactly the same setup:

B-pipe (mod)
ADA girdle head, 35cc domes
Stock F/A
MSD Enhancer
Riva stuffers

I am in the middle of getting this all put together, would like to know what jets to have beforehand.
 

2006superjet

just one more part....
Location
costa mesa ca
only thing i have done to the carbs was a primer, fp jet install and the high low adj. t screws. i will most likley put a new gasket in i am missing the one that is between the bracket that holds the carbs to the stock head.
 

2006superjet

just one more part....
Location
costa mesa ca
oh

could it be cause i used 40 to 1 ratio or possibly had bad or kinda ok gas with 40-1 in it. you know what i should prob take it out again lean out the mix to 50-1 its safe there right? my rev limitier is also set all the way out so i shouldnt be doing wot runs anyway not for that long anyways. ill try to take it out soon. just really dont want to take apart the carbs but ah heck i may well see. let me know if it could be the gas i had the gas stored in a mx can outside and it rained but it was sealed up.

----oh and also another thing the big white external filter was taken out and cut into looked good as new. clean as a whistle a few sand looking particles but thats it- really wish i tried the wot run on the way back to the dock. after the engine was warm and stuff oh well there is always next time.
 
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SUPERTUNE

Race Gas Rules
Location
Clearwater Fl.
Well start by taking the head off and do a visual inspection of the cylinder walls and make sure you haven't had a piston seizure! If good then take of the carbs and completely clean and inspect them, look for barrel filters clogged, trash in the jets and also take off the fuel pump plate and make sure you don't have a creased or broken diaphram in both sides of the fuel pump plate.
Next after getting back together, pressurize the fuel tank with the fuel return nipple on tank and with the main fuel line off carbs dumping in a cup to check fuel flow for the complete fuel system with the fuel petcock testing both the 'ON and Reserve settings.
I would use a 72.5 low jets, stock needle & seat, stock 115 spring and 135 main jets for a starting baseline.
 

showmepro1200

ISJWTA Member #007
Well start by taking the head off and do a visual inspection of the cylinder walls and make sure you haven't had a piston seizure! If good then take of the carbs and completely clean and inspect them, look for barrel filters clogged, trash in the jets and also take off the fuel pump plate and make sure you don't have a creased or broken diaphram in both sides of the fuel pump plate.
Next after getting back together, pressurize the fuel tank with the fuel return nipple on tank and with the main fuel line off carbs dumping in a cup to check fuel flow for the complete fuel system with the fuel petcock testing both the 'ON and Reserve settings.
I would use a 72.5 low jets, stock needle & seat, stock 115 spring and 135 main jets for a starting baseline.

Chuck - I've got the 135 mains ordered but didn't order 72.5 pilots - how crucial is the upgrade from 70 to 72.5 on the low speed circuit?

Also, I'm putting an ADA girdle head on today - if I don't disturb the cylinder to case mating (and the motor was running perfect before) do I need to replace the cylinder base gasket?

2006Superjet - sorry to parrallel with you on this thread but its exactly the info I'm needing on the job Im doing right at this moment. Hopefully we can both learn from the information.
 

Mike W

Infidel
Location
North Florida
MikeW: That said, what is the stock jets/spring/needle and seat on a 2002 SJ? I am going to have almost exactly the same setup:

B-pipe (mod)
ADA girdle head, 35cc domes
Stock F/A
MSD Enhancer
Riva stuffers

I am in the middle of getting this all put together, would like to know what jets to have beforehand.

Stock jetting:
70 pilot
130 main
1.5 n/s
95gm (dull silver)spring *However, some models came with 115gm (gold)springs*
 
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