Other Noob Question (spell check turned on!) about scuppers and one way valves

Sanoman

Sanoman

AbouttoKrash
Location
NE Tenn
No,l didn't research the X to see if this has been posted up in the past.But here we go.

My thought is to take a Zoeller one way valve http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/ZOELLER-Full-Flow-Check-Valve-2P843?Pid=search and install it upside down under the tray and then put a scupper cap on the outside right side up.So when you did end up with a flipped ski,the inside valve would shut and stop any flow of water coming back into the engine bay.

Stupid noob question or a good idea?:thinkerg:
 
sjetrider

sjetrider

615 Freeriders are addicted to T1 madness.
Location
in the 615 (Nashville)
I guess I am not sure how these valves work. If installed upside down they will let water / air flow through while the ski is in the upright position, but when the ski is upside down it seals that flow?
I would love to see the inside of these. You might think about puting it close to the bulkhead for posible easy maintinence though.
You are 100% correct in your thinking on the scupper allowing the trapped air out and letting the boat sink MUCH faster and if your theory works I will be PISSED that I just sealed mine up with out this in place LOL!
 
BruceSki

BruceSki

Formerly Motoman25
Location
Long Island
Versiplug max works good with a single bilge pump and stock bilge installed. it will get hung up if you leave the ski sitting at the ramp though.

I have dumped my boat in and set it on the concrete ramp, parked the truck and come back to an engine bay full of water. No big deal though I just don't do that anymore.

The max does not remove the water as fast as a scupper though.
 
hornedogg79

hornedogg79

dodgin' bass boats
I've seen builds where two of these zoeller check valves were installed under the tray, placed 180degrees opposite of each other. Same concept I guess. I just find it hard to imagine that gravity would have such an effect holding these flaps open. The slightest bit of water pressure should close the valve no matter what position the ski is in. I do think a secondary check valve is the way to go though. A backup if the first one fails or gets debris stuck in it.

zoelercheck-cut.gif
 
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Waternut

Waternut

Customizing addict
Location
Macon, GA
If I understand those check valves correctly, I don't really see it working. The valves open with positive pressure in one direction. If water is going to trickle through it, even a slight pressure change like rushing air will open the valve as well. Versiplugs will let air out and water in when upside down too. They just don't let as much as a scupper does.

If you're worried about it...here is a solution that you may or may not want to attempt. Servo actuated valves. Open when your lanyard is connected and closed when you pull the lanyard out. You can buy sprinkler actuators that run on 24v from home depot or lowes for $10-$20. You'll have to buy a 12v to 24v DC/DC converter for another $20 or so. They will open when 24v is applied. So when you interupt your starter switch ground by connecting your lanyard, you will turn the valve on and allow even a very leaky scupper to work normally. When you bail and the lanyard is pulled, the valve will close letting nothing in or out. I haven't completely thought this all the way through but it was the first thing that came to mind while I was at work but that's how I see it working.
 
Sanoman

Sanoman

AbouttoKrash
Location
NE Tenn
A member brought up some thoughts on this idea and l agree.What if you get debris and sand caught at the upside down flap and then the flap gets clogged and won't close.What if after a period of time the rubber gets stiff and dried out from being open all the time.Defeats the purpose.

l have seen other threads where guys have used a gas cap and filler neck to cap it off.Seems like a good idea.But when do you leave it open and when do you keep it closed? Kind of defeats the purpose.
 
theiba

theiba

Can't get a ski stuck...
Location
Southern NJ
Waternut said:
If you're worried about it...here is a solution that you may or may not want to attempt. Servo actuated valves. Open when your lanyard is connected and closed when you pull the lanyard out. You can buy sprinkler actuators that run on 24v from home depot or lowes for $10-$20. You'll have to buy a 12v to 24v DC/DC converter for another $20 or so. They will open when 24v is applied. So when you interupt your starter switch ground by connecting your lanyard, you will turn the valve on and allow even a very leaky scupper to work normally. When you bail and the lanyard is pulled, the valve will close letting nothing in or out. I haven't completely thought this all the way through but it was the first thing that came to mind while I was at work but that's how I see it working.
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I actually thought about doing that before on my blaster, and if I remember correctly, it was Hunter that makes a 12v coil for their 3/4", 1", and 1 1/2" valves. They might make a 2" one, but for some reason I don't think they offered that one in 12v. For about 20 bucks, you can get a cheapo solid state latching relay controller from a car audio place that will work on a pulse input, and they can be programmed as NO/NC so it gives you a range of options for wiring it. You could tie it to the lanyard ground, you could tie it to the starter output so it will only open when the engine is running, and you could throw a diode in so the engine start could trigger one pulse, and the lanyard pull could trigger the next pulse. Or lanyard and a "drain" button so if you put your lanyard in and pulled it on accident, you could always trigger it back open again. There's really no limit to how you could set it up.
 
B3IS

B3IS

I have never used a scupper on a ski. Sanoman you seem to be on the right track. I agree with a couple of comments about the air escaping and above waterline, I have never used versaplug either. Always dual 500 gph bilges on a thumb switch, replace bilges and switch every now and then but happy. I would like to get the water out quicker sometimes, but it would suck if the ski filled up when it fails.
 
theiba

theiba

Can't get a ski stuck...
Location
Southern NJ
Sanoman said:
Dam guys,keep it simple! lol

Seems like a great idea,but l'm going for the K.I.S.S. method!
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Hey man, stuff always gets better with innovation. They never came stock with bilge switches and pumps and all that, just a venturi drain, but we added these things because someone pioneered it and said it worked great and we all got the same results.

I'm not saying the sprinkler drain would work great, but I'd love to see someone try it. TBH, I wouldn't even bother with that little relay thing, I'd just wire it to a button on the bars so when I jump back on and get moving enough for the water to drain, push it for a few seconds and drain the whole hull and let off.

A 500gph rule will only drain about 6-8 gallons a minute, and typically when my hull fills up I would say there's more like 20-25 gallons in there, so there's several minutes of a bilge pump running to drain it out, and in the surf that's not always a good thing. If I can get up on a plane, push a button, and 20 seconds later it's pretty close to empty, I'd say that's the way to go, same applies with a standard scupper, but at least this way it's always shut and stays shut regardless of the boat orientation, and only when I push that button does it open.
 
keith t

keith t

Location
Braapp factory
small diameter (3mm ?) length of rubber bungee cord fastened to scupper flap - run through the scupper tube and fastened round rear engine mount.
Normal use water will push it open, back end re-entries flap is pulled shut (stops it being ripped off) in surf
should also shut scupper if ski upside down, thus slowing/preventing air escape
KISS :)
 
Sanoman

Sanoman

AbouttoKrash
Location
NE Tenn
keith t said:
small diameter (3mm ?) length of rubber bungee cord fastened to scupper flap - run through the scupper tube and fastened round rear engine mount.
Normal use water will push it open, back end re-entries flap is pulled shut (stops it being ripped off) in surf
should also shut scupper if ski upside down, thus slowing/preventing air escape
KISS :)
Click to expand...

l like that and it goes along with the KISS method.

jetmaniac said:
Never had a problem with xmetal scupper on my superfreaks in surf or flat.
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Never had a problem with mine Chris.

So l ended up with what l did to the old stunt hull.Zoeller one way valve and xmetal scupper.
 
Sanoman

Sanoman

AbouttoKrash
Location
NE Tenn
theiba said:
Hey man, stuff always gets better with innovation. They never came stock with bilge switches and pumps and all that, just a venturi drain, but we added these things because someone pioneered it and said it worked great and we all got the same results.

I'm not saying the sprinkler drain would work great, but I'd love to see someone try it. TBH, I wouldn't even bother with that little relay thing, I'd just wire it to a button on the bars so when I jump back on and get moving enough for the water to drain, push it for a few seconds and drain the whole hull and let off.

A 500gph rule will only drain about 6-8 gallons a minute, and typically when my hull fills up I would say there's more like 20-25 gallons in there, so there's several minutes of a bilge pump running to drain it out, and in the surf that's not always a good thing. If I can get up on a plane, push a button, and 20 seconds later it's pretty close to empty, I'd say that's the way to go, same applies with a standard scupper, but at least this way it's always shut and stays shut regardless of the boat orientation, and only when I push that button does it open.
Click to expand...


l totally agree with innovation but sometimes if we get too high tech there is always that possibility of failure (at the most importune time).Skis get beat,bounced and thrashed around so much that l like simple just in case.
 
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