Need help with electrical problem somewhere!

[Nicotheskiguy]

So fresh build I just got everything installed hooked up the battery and one click. When I press the start button now I get nothing at all! I put the voltmeter probes on the battery pressed the start button and no draw on the battery.
Then I put the negative probe on the block with positive on the terminal before pressing the start button it had great voltage this still had no draw when pressed so I assume the ground is good?
What else am I missing? I know there’s a potential to be the starter relay/solenoid but I kind of ruled that out since there’s no clicking? Any help would be appreciated I was hoping to get on the water ASAP!

 

[Pro-pulsion]

Is this in regards to a SuperJet? If so, did you check the little fuse under the big cap on the front of the ebox? Also, set your multimeter to resistance and check both cables going to the starter and from the starter to the battery. You will need to open the ebox to test the red lead from the solenoid to the starter, they will both be a lot harder to test at the starter because of the exhaust being in there so you'll need to either make something flexible to get in there or maybe long probes on the meter. There should be zero resistance on both of those leads. It's one of those hidden gremlins that we have probably all fallen for lol...the outside always looks great but the inside is a deteriorated mess and the only way to know the health of them is to get in there and do the testing. Any resistance at all and the cable(s) need to be replaced.

 

[Nicotheskiguy]

Is this in regards to a SuperJet? If so, did you check the little fuse under the big cap on the front of the ebox? Also, set your multimeter to resistance and check the both cables going to the starter and from the starter to the battery. You will need to open the ebox to test the red lead from the solenoid to the starter, they will both be a lot harder to test at the starter because of the exhaust being in there so you'll need to either make something flexible to get in there or maybe long probes on the meter. There should be zero resistance on both of those leads. It's one of those hidden gremlins that we have probably all fallen for lol...the outside always looks great but the inside is a deteriorated mess and the only way to know the health of them is to get in there and do the testing. Any resistance at all and the cable(s) need to be replaced.

Yes Yamaha based setup I will add that to the post!

 

[Nicotheskiguy]

Is this in regards to a SuperJet? If so, did you check the little fuse under the big cap on the front of the ebox? Also, set your multimeter to resistance and check both cables going to the starter and from the starter to the battery. You will need to open the ebox to test the red lead from the solenoid to the starter, they will both be a lot harder to test at the starter because of the exhaust being in there so you'll need to either make something flexible to get in there or maybe long probes on the meter. There should be zero resistance on both of those leads. It's one of those hidden gremlins that we have probably all fallen for lol...the outside always looks great but the inside is a deteriorated mess and the only way to know the health of them is to get in there and do the testing. Any resistance at all and the cable(s) need to be replaced.

Thanks for the help Pro-pulsion, I got the electrical box apart and tested everything I could to the relay and I’m 99% it’s bad that’s my problem, now all I get it is straight clicking. I do have one weird symptom though that I can’t make sense of, when I press the start button multiple times in a row the volt meter slowly climbs in voltage on the starter side of the relay until it turns over it’s weird. Maybe that’s a common symptom of a bad relay I’ve never seen it before.

 

[Pro-pulsion]

Or your brushes in the starter are barely making good contact. As you hold the start button or press it repeatedly you are slowly arcing your brushes to the communtator decreasing resistance. If your starter has never been cleaned and rebuilt to the best of your knowledge it will serve you well to do that. If it's an aftermarket starter then it will definitely serve you well to buy a good used oem starter. I've seen enough problems from SBT and other brands to justify never buying them for myself. I learn vicariously through other people's mistakes

 

[Nicotheskiguy]

When I make that initial press on the start button there is no voltage getting to the starter on the voltmeter either when I test it directly on the starter or at the starter side of the relay while pressing the button. It’s an OEM starter it sings when it finally arcs plus I didn’t have a problem with either when I disassembled over the winter so it this all had me puzzled earlier. I’m hoping it’s the relay I’ve got a new one on the way

 

[Pro-pulsion]

It could very easily be the relay. They're not a forever part

 

[Sparkplug]

If its clicking the relay is doing its job. You can bench test is very easily. Yami relays are very reliable rarely fail unless obvious intrusion.

If your hitting the button or pressing it multiple times, and then it works, its the cable going to the starter, or the starter itself.

You can get a used Mitsuba sm13 starter from a r6 or something else off ebay for 20 or 30 dollars and swap the back off yours if it's bad. Real easy to do. Or you can buy a used yami pwc one that's been in water its life for 50-150.

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[JetManiac]

If its clicking the relay is doing its job. You can bench test is very easily. Yami relays are very reliable rarely fail unless obvious intrusion.

Not my experience at all. Many bad relays will click when energized, but the contacts on the secondary are damaged and do not pass power between the cables. The majority of defective relays we see will still click.

 

[Sparkplug]

Yeah. A guy who gets paid to work on skis probably sees alot of failed parts. Especially when he sells them. The fact is there are 100000 relays out there and 99 percent work.

As mentioned when a relay clicks its usually good. But you can BENCH test it very easily

Jet maniac can sell you a rebuilt starter. Not sure he will come close to 30 dollars and oem tho

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[mthomps]

Yeah. A guy who gets paid to work on skis probably sees alot of failed parts. Especially when he sells them. The fact is there are 100000 relays out there and 99 percent work.

As mentioned when a relay clicks its usually good. But you can BENCH test it very easily

Jet maniac can sell you a rebuilt starter. Not sure he will come close to 30 dollars and oem tho

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Dude you crack me up. You're a two stroke engine airplane pilot and you don't think a relay can click without making a connection? I'll pray for you and yours.

I had this same thing happen this summer and luckily had the mysterious jetmaniac relay sitting on the shelf already just in case. It worked and I no longer have to violently shake my ski like an ass in deep water for my ski to start.

 

[Sparkplug]

Jesus Christ. A relay can click and not work. Duh. Yamaha relays are reliable. Instead of tearing a ebox apart. I'd stick a multimeter on the starter terminal and hit the button. Thats going to tell you 90 percent what the problem is.

Guess what? You still have to BENCH test that relay to verify it's bad.

Tell me. Xh20 geniuses. When you hear a yamah ski click,.do you instantly think relay? Also, same engine pros, when these relays fail, are rhe nice shiny clean relays, or are they swelled with green from INTRUSION like mentioned

Stop tagging me in stuff. I'm trying to sleep.

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[mthomps]

Get some good rest and relax a bit

 

[JetManiac]

If its clicking the relay is doing its job.

A relay can click and not work. Duh.

Which of these 2 statements are correct? It can’t be both.

You were trying to help the op which is good. But you made a mistake, and gave him some bad information. I was just pointing it out so he and others would not be misled. When you make a mistake, just say oops and move on, don‘t keep digging and get defensive. We all make mistakes.

 

[Sparkplug]

I can see how that's confusing. If the relay is clicking, it's "probably" good. I wouldn't tear open the box without wiggling my hand down by the starter and testing the system. If it has 12 volts it the starter. If it doesn't it's the cables or the relay. Real simple.

A relay is a mechanical connection. If its clicking. It's doing its job. If it's not getting the power through, the contacts have corroded. If they have corroded it's because of water. And will be very apparent from the green all over it. Yamaha relays are reliable. Operator error and lack of maintenance will make anything fail.

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[JetManiac]

If its clicking. It's doing its job. If it's not getting the power through...

Again, this is not factually correct. If the relay clicks, then that only means that the primary circuit of the relay has ground and is getting power, and it is energizing the electromagnetic switch.

"If it's not getting power through", then the relay is absolutely NOT "doing its job."

A relay's only job is to connect the battery power to the starter. A clicking relay that is just clicking and not connecting power is a bad relay and not 'doing its job.'

If it's not getting the power through, the contacts have corroded. If they have corroded it's because of water. And will be very apparent from the green all over it.

This is also not correct in our experience. Most Yamaha relays that we see fail are due to the contacts on the secondary failing. Not from corrosion but from the contacts going bad. Contacts fail from normal use over time, but also due to heat from cranking failing starters, low battery voltage, and poor high resistance connections and bad cables.

We have a box of defective oem relays that look minty fresh from dry eboxes that are not 'doing their jobs.'

We have another box of green corroded 10,000 leagues under the sea relays that test good and are still 'doing their jobs.'

 

[Sparkplug]

Why do you keep boxes of bad relays? Why do you keep corroded relays? Why do I give a poop? If a relay clicks, and you tear your ebox apart before testing the starter connection. You probably belong on xh20. If you think your schooling someone on a relay. Good for you. Lol. It's weird that yamaha used that relay design for 25 years. Being they are so unreliable. Hopefully the op gets it figured out


If you can't fit your fat hands by the connection you can stick a.flatblade against it and test off that. Even the biggest monkey should be able to manage that.

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[Sparkplug]

They are mechanical. They rarely fail. They are engineered the see thousands upon thousands of cycles. All relays oem are. Can they fail? They are mechanical so absolutely. Should you ruin the seal on your ebox and possibly damage a ton of other things because it's "hard" to get to a starter terminal? No. Absolutely not. You should also throw a bad electrical part, or any part for that matter, straight in the trash.

Sorry for ruining this dudes post. Kinda. His relay very well may be bad. I was trying to help prevent un needed and possibly buying things that aren't needed. Every single part of a jet ski can be tested and verified good or bad.

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[JetManiac]

Why do you keep boxes of bad relays?

We use the rubber holders, the hardware from the studs, and the primary brown and black wires and hardware to fix other relays.

Why do you keep corroded relays?

We sell them to locals who are cheap, and who don't care how they look (or how long they last I guess).

Why do I give a poop? You probably belong on xh20. If you think your schooling someone on a relay. Good for you. Lol.

The better question is why you are trying to change the subject, and also making this personal? Instead of just admitting to a mistake and move on. No personal animus here, just trying to help the op and others.

I have been schooling many on here for many years, as well as having been schooled by many here as well. I learn alot from discussions on the X. I am amazed at the breadth and depth of knowledge here all the time.

It's weird that yamaha used that relay design for 25 years. Being they are so unreliable.

Who said the Yamaha relays are unreliable? The relays are very reliable, especially when they are not abused by ecessive cranking, low voltage batteries, poor connections, bad cables, failing starters, etc.

Hopefully the op gets it figured out

He will, and he is in good hands here. He is asking questions for help, and he is getting it here on the best jet ski forum in the world. Instead of from the numerous clowns on Facebook who often shout down good information with rubbish.

 

[Sparkplug]

I didn't mean to spout rubbish. It wasn't. I speak from experience. Of alot of yamaha skis. And alot more things with moving parts. Obviously you deal with more jet skis than the average hobbyist. But relays are rarely the problem in my line of work. At least when kept clean. The technology is perfected.

In my experience the yamaha relay out lasts the starter, and cables, 3 fold. I've replaced probably 2 or 3 relays. And probably 20 starters. Maybe I suck at keeping water out. Maybe I'm cheap and buy used stuff. But thats what I've seen. Pulling the ebox apart means a new gasket. Although if the relay is bad it probably needs one anyways. Both my skis require the entire exhaust to be removed to get the ebox out. Not the case on a superjet but it's still a pain in the ass. It's simple to check things before tearing stuff apart.

So yeh. I guess technically I was wrong. Your relay could click and be totally fubar as far as getting the power from the battery cable to the starter cable. But if it does click, I would check the starter connection first. Also a proper bench test after for the relay to verify that your other connections aren't causing an issue.

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