foothold-shortened pole question

[tom21]

I have not had a lot of time on skis with shortened poles so I am trying to understand something here.

97 SJ- I noticed if I stand in the back of the tray when I jump say a three or four foot wave, that the nose comes too far up and over and I land on my azz or right on the tail. Wind maybe stance? so I stand 3/4 of the way back not all the way back. and I land perfect. I am 5'10" bout 185 and have a stock pole.( can't wait to hear the jokes about that line)

the question is why noone else has footholds at that point? they look like they are all the way back - so I will land wrong. Now I notice that there are almost always shortened poles on surf skis so is this going to correct my position and weight on the ski to where I need to have the holds in the rear? Or do I just not jump right or what?

I kinda feel like this is stupid but someone else in our group is having the same issue so I have to ask, cause the footholds and turf are on their way.:biggthumpup:

 

[oxnard111]

I have not had a lot of time on skis with shortened poles so I am trying to understand something here.

97 SJ- I noticed if I stand in the back of the tray when I jump say a three or four foot wave, that the nose comes too far up and over and I land on my azz or right on the tail. Wind maybe stance? so I stand 3/4 of the way back not all the way back. and I land perfect. I am 5'10" bout 185 and have a stock pole.( can't wait to hear the jokes about that line)

the question is why noone else has footholds at that point? they look like they are all the way back - so I will land wrong. Now I notice that there are almost always shortened poles on surf skis so is this going to correct my position and weight on the ski to where I need to have the holds in the rear? Or do I just not jump right or what?

I kinda feel like this is stupid but someone else in our group is having the same issue so I have to ask, cause the footholds and turf are on their way.:biggthumpup:

The reason why holds cannot be too far forward is b/c the exhaust tube going down the right gunwale gets in the way. I installed my holds as far forward as I could.

 

[Sanford]

Lets face it, footholds real purpose is for back-flips and in those situations you need to be locked in and feet all the way back. When jumping waves (surf) I keep my left foot forward. For jumping I don't need my left foot locked-in (or right foot for that matter). However, when riding aggressive in chop or when I'll clear double or tripple sets, I always prefer to lock my left foot in under the fire extinguisher container and use it as leverage.

 

[tom21]

oxnard, that is exactly where I was wanting to put em! Have you ever jumped a wave/wake with both feet at the back of the tray? have the same prob as me? cause that would just put the nail in the coffin. I feel much better now guys thanks.

 

[tom21]

sanford, Do you think having them a little forward will be a problem for backies?

 

[tom21]

oxnard- almost forgot- shortened pole or stock?

 

[oxnard111]

shortened 3 3/4 inchs

 

[tom21]

does my stance with the stock pole theory hold any water?

 

[Speedfreak]

I am not a surf rider but you said that you had very little experience on a ski with a shortened pole.... maybe just experience is the reason that you can't get the landing you want with you feet all the way back..

I have my foot holds all the way back maybe back further that anyone else and I can get any kind of landing I want with body english during the jump.

And I know that if you shorten the pole your whole center of gravity will change with each inch of foreward movement. I have shortened my pole one inch at a time and now I have a -3 inch pole and -3.5 inch steering. Most surf riders have -6 inch pole/steering combos. So your body weight being 6 inches closer to the front will really effect your landings.

 

[FLY6584]

I am not a surf rider but you said that you had very little experience on a ski with a shortened pole.... maybe just experience is the reason that you can't get the landing you want with you feet all the way back..

I have my foot holds all the way back maybe back further that anyone else and I can get any kind of landing I want with body english during the jump.

And I know that if you shorten the pole your whole center of gravity will change with each inch of foreward movement. I have shortened my pole one inch at a time and now I have a -3 inch pole and -3.5 inch steering. Most surf riders have -6 inch pole/steering combos. So your body weight being 6 inches closer to the front will really effect your landings.

How do you have a -3.5 steering? I thought the shortest you could go was an xmetal/wamiltons shortened turn plate with straight bars and that was good for -2.5.

 

[Waste Land]

Lets face it, footholds real purpose is for back-flips and in those situations you need to be locked in and feet all the way back. When jumping waves (surf) I keep my left foot forward. For jumping I don't need my left foot locked-in (or right foot for that matter). However, when riding aggressive in chop or when I'll clear double or tripple sets, I always prefer to lock my left foot in under the fire extinguisher container and use it as leverage.

Backflips are not the only purpose of holds. Rolls, nose stabs, broncos all are used by foot holds. Are they NEEDED...no but its a hell of alot easier to break a ankle and even easier to come out of tray when upside down.

Jumping without holds SUCKS!!! Plain and simple. That whole "I'm floating away from the tray" fealing is not a great thing, and i recently saw someone break their ankle bad(3 screws) from this exact thing.

It's safer, x10 more control in air, and a wider stance. I pretty much stay in my holds 90% of the time

sanford, Do you think having them a little forward will be a problem for backies?

No, tons of people use short poles and BF all day long and with less weight then you

does my stance with the stock pole theory hold any water?

1. You being 180 is alot diff then me int he same stance being 140. Your gonna get more rear lean then me no matter what

2. When I jump steep waves and wakes I tend to be at the rear of my ski from the force of hammering the throttle up a incline that steep. IT causes me to land on my ass and back sometimes. Time your wave a little better can help form keep the nose up too much, a longer ride plate would benefit you in keeping the nose down a bit more. When you jump the wave keep you weight over the pole as you leave the water and it will help too

 

[Speedfreak]

How do you have a -3.5 steering? I thought the shortest you could go was an xmetal/wamiltons shortened turn plate with straight bars and that was good for -2.5.

Built my own x-metal wanna be setup with a stock turn plate.
And after I reread my old post (I finally found it) I see that it is 4 inches shorter. I couldn't remember. WOW loosing my mind in my old age

I only had to modify the stock pole pad about 3/8 of and inch right where the bars touched

Here is a picture with both sets of bars bolted to the turnplate
Turnplate I have cut the bars off to the proper length but I wanted to try really long extended bars.

 

[Big Kahuna]

you gonna run dual throttles!!!!!!!!! LOL

 

[tom21]

When you jump the wave keep you weight over the pole as you leave the water and it will help too

and what I am asking is wouldn't a shorter pole put me in a better position to do this? leaning forward against the pole on my ski versus yours will put me in two very different angles on the ski.

I have a pole I plan on shortening and I am doing holds weekend after next so I am trying to figure the placment. I want to put them back but not if shortening the pole doesn't help my problem.

I just figured someone else has had this happening to them.

 

[WaveDemon]

and what I am asking is wouldn't a shorter pole put me in a better position

with my little experience with pole ski's the stock length pole was always in my gut. that tells me I'm jumpint in a more forward position than you. cut the pole and lean forward more when jumping.

also putting the holds a little more forward will help you ride out of more jumps. with all your weight in the back at low speed landing your ski is likely to bob in the water and you will fall off. when I land nothings and can cans I land with my feet in the middle of the tray to help me ride out.

hope that helps.

 

[Speedfreak]

you gonna run dual throttles!!!!!!!!! LOL

What ever it takes for more brappp dual throtles double horsepower :arms:

and what I am asking is wouldn't a shorter pole put me in a better position to do this? leaning forward against the pole on my ski versus yours will put me in two very different angles on the ski.

With your feet all the way back and use a shorter pole this is moving your weight foreward. Like leaning over the pole you just don't have a option unless you can add 6 inches to your reach. So YES a shorter pole would move your weight foreward and get the ski to land flater. But then you add insane amounts of horsepower and you are back to learning how to controll the ski so it will land flat again.

I still say it is all in controll it's like experienced riders can ride with a stock or d cut rideplate without porposing and new riders need a longer rideplate to stop this. And a lot still complain untill they get the hang of it.

 

[tom21]

okay cool, so in essence moving them forward will not hurt me so much and shortening the pole will help a lot. This is how I was planning on doing it but just wanted to confirm some thoughts before surgery.

Tim that is what I do too, I think. it is kinda crowded with that pole. now is taking 2 inches gonna be enough? maybe 3 is good. I'll get some measurements off Reed.:Banane01:

 

[WaHoo_1]

Tom, currently my pole is a little long for me as well... I'm just guessing it's already -2 but not certain. May want to PM Dan... he's in the process of shortening his stock pole right now.

 

[thegoldenboy]

Is there a standard for shortening the handlepole based on rider height, reach, or weight?

I'm just thinking, if someone 5'10 with a stock pole has issues, would a person 5'7" be inclined to shorten even further? It seems to make your weight mor forward and make sense. But a person 5'7" is now going to have a huge reach when in both footholds...

 

[LBE]

Is there a standard for shortening the handlepole based on rider height, reach, or weight?

I'm just thinking, if someone 5'10 with a stock pole has issues, would a person 5'7" be inclined to shorten even further? It seems to make your weight mor forward and make sense. But a person 5'7" is now going to have a huge reach when in both footholds...

I have heard that the taller you are, the shorter the pole should be. Taller person will have a longer reach. I dunno all the reasoning, just what I've heard.