89 x2 ignition

[azzkikker]

Machine died..had no spark, replaced the stator and igniter..have spark, compression and fuel but it won't even bark...I am completely at a loss as to why it won't fire..any thoughts what could be wrong with this thing? Was thinking timing...tried multiple positions on the stator but not even a fart...thanks

 

[Pro-pulsion]

Did you take the flywheel off and put a new key in it? Even a partially sheered key will change the timing by just enough to make the engine not run. Those 650's are pretty good motors for reliability and pretty straightforward. I would also check the condition of the plug boots for any cuts or damage. They can leak to ground outside of the plugs if they're not in that good of shape.

 

[azzkikker]

Thanks for the reply...the boots were new but we also tried another set we had. Just crazy that we have spark--however I question if it is strong enough... The keyway is tight...Being the stator is adjustable how do you know where to start from...We tried to line it exactly like the old one. We have taken it off multiple times and moved it to different spots. We put quick start directly into the cylinder and still not even a bark.....This makes zero sense to me....The old igniter had 5 wires with a separate rectifier...You can't get those..We replaced with 4 wires and according to the diagram there is no rectifier with the 4 wire. So we removed the rectifier and wired it accordingly. But there is consistent spark.....hence my confusion...Thanks again

 

[Pro-pulsion]

I'll check with my service manual later tonight but I believe there are some alignment marks on the stator and the one of case halves.

 

[azzkikker]

I'll check with my service manual later tonight but I believe there are some alignment marks on the stator and the one of case halves.

Thanks..the stator I received did not have a mark on it but the old one did... Any idea what voltage should come out of the stator when cranking?

 

[WFO Speedracer]

About 35VAC

 

[kevbo]

Try removing the plug boots and pull on the metal wire in the leads. It’s common for those to break internally and then the insulator and boot stretch over the broken wire.

 

[Pro-pulsion]

So I found an 89 X2 manual which has the same motor...it has really been some time since I looked into the old 650sx stuff, but on the flywheel cover is a hand screw in cap. You remove that to verify the timing marks line up to the case. There is a notch (red arrow?) on the stator plate that should line up to a timing mark seen through the plug/cap hole. Here is the pic from the manual and a parts diagram for the plug so you can see the perspective of the manual representation. It's a really old school manual and this is what we all went through lol. Also, here is the tech specs on the electrical info for the stator.

 

[azzkikker]

This is awesome info..thanks so much!!!

 

[azzkikker]

Unfortunately the stator I replaced doesn't have the tabs on it...I replaced the CDi with one from SBT...I didn't like the plug boots that came with it so I used NGK. I noticed the boots that came with it were Non resistant...The NGK ones are 5k resistant..I am just wondering if maybe there is too much resistance and this might be causing too weak of a spark?? I am grasping here....Thanks

 

[Pro-pulsion]

If the plug boots have resistors then the plugs don't need to be R plugs. Resistor plugs are basically just for old school marine communications. It might still hold true for new tech but back in the day non-resistor plugs created electrical interference with communication devices like old cb radios and a certain type of buoy navigation system that I can't quite remember the name of now, but it was obsolete back in the early 80's. Since then the only place I've heard of still affected by non-resistor plugs is digital ignition systems like MSD or the stock digital 64x CDI on the 760 Yamaha motors. There's probably more out there affected by it but that's the extent of what I last read about. Aside from that you should be fine to run non-resistor plugs if the caps are already setup with them. I would verify the coils on the stator that they meet spec for the meter tests and try to trace down any info on the stator itself for what they claim is the timing mark.

 

[WFO Speedracer]

Resistor plugs will also wreak absolute havoc on Seadoo electrical systems that use DC cdi , 787's 951's , ask me how I found that out sometime it's a really good story lol.

 

[faceplant2]

Interesting.

 

[WFO Speedracer]

One more tidbit of info, all the old Dyna total loss setups cannot run resistor anything, they don't have enough juice for that , I had one that came in with resistor wires, caps and plugs, it barely ran, I removed all that crap and put regular solid core wires , non resistor caps and non resistor plugs on it and it ran wonderfully after that , that was on the old Dave Gordon race ski that came through here that's now in the Watercraft museum.

 

[azzkikker]

Thanks guys..ill switch it all up and let you know!!

 

[azzkikker]

Got the new non restor plugs..spark jumps half an inch from the plug to the head bolt...I'd say spark is fine...lining up the stator plate to the notch in the case is impossible...they are too far away from each other to do so... the old stator looks identical to the new one...im absolutely baffled on this one..180psi compression..still have the 5k restive boots though

 

[azzkikker]

Stator resistances all fall in place

 

[Pro-pulsion]

The only thing I can think of left if everything else is sound would be the crank is out of phase. If the spark is solid, the fuel is there as you've also tried a direct injecting down the cylinder, no signs of fuel coming back up the intake then I would have to think with the higher compression that your crank timing is out of phase. The most visual way to test it if it's really bad is to just put a little wooden dowl down each plug hole and rotate the crank by hand. When you see the one hit top dead center, watch the other to see if it still has more travel before it reaches bottom dead center. If it does then your crank is hosed and you'll never get it to fire because it's probably already well past the ignition timing on each down stroke. Those are really not a complex motor, they're about as basic as an old 2-stroke lawnboy but with reeds lol.

 

[azzkikker]

We've been moving the stator plate..finally got a bit of a bark and huge back fire... how close does the stator need to be to run? I literally can't set the timing...but I will check the crank..thanks again

 

[azzkikker]

Just noticed the keyway looks odd to me..im going to upload a pic