makejetskiinggreatagain
Brandon
you make it seem pretty easy pro-pulsion. thanks for the write up and pics
Super Jet Footholds install! Could use some help.
- Thread starter Roseand
- Start date
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
Thanks guys. I don't mind helping out when and where I can.
FPF, it honestly was easy. A lot easier than I expected it to be, the hard part was bringing myself to cut into my hull for fear of scrapping something. There actually is nothing to scrap on the inside of where you will be cutting if you are using the Dremel like I did other than the cutout from the hull and some foam you have to carve out. Two things I should have mentioned before as well, wear long sleeves and a good breathing mask certified for small particulate like fiberglass and asbestos. The little white dust masks don't offer any protection for stuff like fiberglass and SMC dust.
FPF, it honestly was easy. A lot easier than I expected it to be, the hard part was bringing myself to cut into my hull for fear of scrapping something. There actually is nothing to scrap on the inside of where you will be cutting if you are using the Dremel like I did other than the cutout from the hull and some foam you have to carve out. Two things I should have mentioned before as well, wear long sleeves and a good breathing mask certified for small particulate like fiberglass and asbestos. The little white dust masks don't offer any protection for stuff like fiberglass and SMC dust.
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Here is what I asked pro-pulsion, and his responses:
How much resin did you endup using?
And, can you put the resin onto the hull, then lay the glass, then put resin on top of the glass until it soaks it all up?
I went through I think 2 tins of resin. I would suggest laying down the glass first then dip a paintbrush in the resin and go around the flares of the holds to start. It smooths in there really nice and easily but the point is you want the glass positioned first because the resin will start to cure a lot sooner than you will be able to place the glass. For the tray, I just mixed up my resin and poured it over the glass then spread it around. You don't have to rush that part, but you shouldn't take too much time or you will have a pool of gel occurring before you can get full benefit of the resin. One tin of resin will go a long way, and I probably could have got away with only needing one but I layed down 3 layers of glass on the tray and I think that's where the extra half tin or so had to come in. Feel free to keep in touch if you need any help. I did the same thing as you, searched for days before trying any of this and eventually I went stale after finding nothing at all. So I just figured, might as well just get into it and hope for the best. It actually turned out to be a lot easier than I expected. A little tip, those red washers on the Dremel arbors for the cut-off discs, they are very important to preventing the discs from spinning on the arbor. If you choose to do it that way, you will go through probably 6 of them at least and a whole lot of discs.
Is it hard to make the glass stay put when/after you apply the resin on it?
No, the glass will stick once you dab the resin to it. It will kinda get slimy like but very sticky. When I laid out my glass up the sides dry, I tried to push it together on the ends just very lightly so it would almost look like it was weaved together. That helped it stay there just enough to get some resin dabbed on. The strips should be pre-cut and figured out before you do any resin work because it really does have a short life span before it gels. Once I had the resin dabbed on I just used the paint brush to push it into the little crevasses and whatnot for the best form fit. I think one of the most important things to worry about is to make sure there are no big air pockets between the glass sheeting and the hull when you do it up with the resin. You might not get away from it at the edges of the holds where they meet the tray but it will most likely be very minimal which so far seems to be ok. I rode a lot last year and everything seems good. But if the air pockets are big, as in you can push them down and they puff back up, water will find its way in there and the glass work will eventually lift and peel off.
How much resin did you endup using?
And, can you put the resin onto the hull, then lay the glass, then put resin on top of the glass until it soaks it all up?
I went through I think 2 tins of resin. I would suggest laying down the glass first then dip a paintbrush in the resin and go around the flares of the holds to start. It smooths in there really nice and easily but the point is you want the glass positioned first because the resin will start to cure a lot sooner than you will be able to place the glass. For the tray, I just mixed up my resin and poured it over the glass then spread it around. You don't have to rush that part, but you shouldn't take too much time or you will have a pool of gel occurring before you can get full benefit of the resin. One tin of resin will go a long way, and I probably could have got away with only needing one but I layed down 3 layers of glass on the tray and I think that's where the extra half tin or so had to come in. Feel free to keep in touch if you need any help. I did the same thing as you, searched for days before trying any of this and eventually I went stale after finding nothing at all. So I just figured, might as well just get into it and hope for the best. It actually turned out to be a lot easier than I expected. A little tip, those red washers on the Dremel arbors for the cut-off discs, they are very important to preventing the discs from spinning on the arbor. If you choose to do it that way, you will go through probably 6 of them at least and a whole lot of discs.
Is it hard to make the glass stay put when/after you apply the resin on it?
No, the glass will stick once you dab the resin to it. It will kinda get slimy like but very sticky. When I laid out my glass up the sides dry, I tried to push it together on the ends just very lightly so it would almost look like it was weaved together. That helped it stay there just enough to get some resin dabbed on. The strips should be pre-cut and figured out before you do any resin work because it really does have a short life span before it gels. Once I had the resin dabbed on I just used the paint brush to push it into the little crevasses and whatnot for the best form fit. I think one of the most important things to worry about is to make sure there are no big air pockets between the glass sheeting and the hull when you do it up with the resin. You might not get away from it at the edges of the holds where they meet the tray but it will most likely be very minimal which so far seems to be ok. I rode a lot last year and everything seems good. But if the air pockets are big, as in you can push them down and they puff back up, water will find its way in there and the glass work will eventually lift and peel off.
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
Yup, it's true. That was from this morning and at lunch.
makejetskiinggreatagain
Brandon
Ya that's my biggest issue, I just don't want to cut into my brand new ski. I'm afraid I'll somehow ruin it. But after reading about your experience, I'm considering installing them next winter when I get the time. It doesn't seem as scary anymore. I appreciate you taking the time to go over every detail and adding pics. I know others have done this, but you seemed to simplify it.
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
I try, I just updated my build thread too and added in all of this info. I have a pile of mods to do to it so I will be getting back into the updates about once a week or so.
http://www.x-h2o.com/threads/106380-1996-Round-Nose-SuperJet-Project
http://www.x-h2o.com/threads/106380-1996-Round-Nose-SuperJet-Project
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
I hope so too, I have no info on re-foaming, if that happens to me and you already had to do it I will be hitting you up for info lol.
):
Well I cut one side.. I yanked off the piece, and I see normal colored dry foam, and then on the bottom I see a slightly darker color foam. I start digging in, and there was a puddle and some wet foam. Where the top and bottom deck are bonded together, there's dark surface mold on top too. I haven't done that much digging.. but there's definitely moisture in there. I'm able to get some dry chunks of foam out, but I still have yet to completely dig out that saturated part..
I also have yet to open up the right side.
I have a bad feeling this might be more work and more costly than I expected..
Well I cut one side.. I yanked off the piece, and I see normal colored dry foam, and then on the bottom I see a slightly darker color foam. I start digging in, and there was a puddle and some wet foam. Where the top and bottom deck are bonded together, there's dark surface mold on top too. I haven't done that much digging.. but there's definitely moisture in there. I'm able to get some dry chunks of foam out, but I still have yet to completely dig out that saturated part..
I also have yet to open up the right side.
I have a bad feeling this might be more work and more costly than I expected..
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
Ah man that sucks. I can't believe how common of an issue this is with these skis. I never hear of it with Kawi skis for some reason though, only Yamahas. I wonder if there was some sort of common flaw in the bondline or the bonding compound they used.
makejetskiinggreatagain
Brandon
sorry to hear about that man. how long does it take for skis to start collecting water?
- Location
- San Diego
Its a common problem with squares. If it were me I would just install the footholds and not worry about refoaming. Its a lot of work for a little benefit. Ride the piss out of it and get yourself another ski when you get better or want more.
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makejetskiinggreatagain
Brandon
so is it not common with the RN?
BrightE's
Paul
- Location
- Seattle, WA
Not as common only because they're newer, not because they have some magical engineering work around that fixed the problem.. I've seen some nightmarish wet foam pictures around here in round nosed too. Especially AFTER people install holds. They tend not to close them up as well as they think they have.
Alright! So here's the deal. The gunwales are mostly dry, but right at the bond line and below it doesn't look so good..
Some of the foam is moist enough to get a few drops of water out if I squeeze it really hard, and then there's the foam that when I'm prying it out, it feels softer and sprays a little water; and reveals a small puddle.(this is on the non exhaust side)
On the exhaust side, the gunwales are mostly dry like the other side, but I can definitely tell already that below the bondline the foam gets softer and is moist too.
I'm stuck on what I should do.. If most of the foam is moist and somewhat soft under the tray, won't that make the tray weaker? If I reinforced the tray like I planned on when installing holds, would that make up for it?
lakdjflajdfladf I DONT KNOW if I should defoam or what.. I don't want to cut up my whole tray and such.... I'm a beginnerish rider so weight doesn't matter to me.. But I care about structural integrity...
Some of the foam is moist enough to get a few drops of water out if I squeeze it really hard, and then there's the foam that when I'm prying it out, it feels softer and sprays a little water; and reveals a small puddle.(this is on the non exhaust side)
On the exhaust side, the gunwales are mostly dry like the other side, but I can definitely tell already that below the bondline the foam gets softer and is moist too.
I'm stuck on what I should do.. If most of the foam is moist and somewhat soft under the tray, won't that make the tray weaker? If I reinforced the tray like I planned on when installing holds, would that make up for it?
lakdjflajdfladf I DONT KNOW if I should defoam or what.. I don't want to cut up my whole tray and such.... I'm a beginnerish rider so weight doesn't matter to me.. But I care about structural integrity...
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
I agree with you on structural integrity. I am the sort of person that will end up having a guilty conscience if I know that there is an area of whatever I am working on in need of repair and choose to ignore it. The thing I would be asking myself is not so much about re-doing foam at first, but getting the wet stuff out and finding out why it is getting wet. As far as rebuilding the tray to be strong, I don't think you will have to worry about that too much as it will pretty well be taken care of when you glass in the holds. As mentioned, I put down 3 layers of glass when I installed mine. I have heard of guys only using one to try and keep the weight down. To me, if the ski is powerful enough to make me happy the weight won't be noticed. Plus, if you cut out the tray using the Dremel disc method for the holds, the re-install and glassing over process should be pretty solid with minimal try material loss. Sometimes a job becomes much more than we ask for but if you clear up the issue now, you will likely save yourself from facing a possibly much larger problem down the road.
Yeah I know what you mean about guilty conscience about that. That's why I'd like to do it right...
But! From what I've searched and searched and searched.. It's near impossible to completely seal up a hull.