whats wrong with the 650?

[ksarge91]

i just really don't get much strong evidence other than people saying the 650 sucks and its a turd.. anyone rolling or backflipping one?

oh and i do have a sxr and its great.. just wanted something light for when i want to go flippin or rollin thanks!

anyone know the weight??

Weights 282 lbs according to nada so probably around 300 for most skis.

The only time I've seen anyone roll one was in a video posted on here off a boat wake, and it wasn't perfect.

The argument always comes up that "you can flip or roll anything in good surf if you have the balls"

But in reality, nobody with the skill level to roll and flip is out there on a 650. Yes, if ross, talyor, caker, any of those guys jumped on a nicely set-up 650 in some nice surf, they could probably roll and flip all day. But that's because they already have the technique down and know how to execute the motion.

If you already have an sxr, I'd reinforce that instead. You probably have a better chance of throwin down on that then the 650.

Like said before it's a starter ski. The hull was designed 20 years ago. Kawi didn't come out with a decent hull until 2003. Yamaha had a winner in 1990. I don't want to turn this into a kawi vs. yamaha debate but it took some trial and error for kawi to get there and the end product belongs on a buoy course.

Not really sure what you mean by "you can't get any strong evidence to why it sucks." People have already posted info on that: Hull design, power to weight ratio, power in general, high center of gravity, stock the pole and steering set-up is a joke, minimal aftermarket products available, awkward riding position.

 

[Pro-pulsion]

I don't mind my 650SX but I do want to try a SJ someday. I would even buy one when the time is right without ever having tried one first. But I must admit, to make the 650SX work well, it does desperately need modification. I dumped a pile of time and effort into my ski and it is quite a bit better than stock. But personally, back in the day when I first had a 650, I felt the sluggishness of it immediately when I traded up from my first ski which was a 300! That 300 I could fly out of the water, making my own air from hops and light chop was a breeze. The 650 was a dog to try and get any flight out of. With all the modding I have done to my current 650, it is much better for taking flight but none the less still nowhere near comparable to my old 300. The hull was ridiculously light and you could fling that ski all over the place.

As mentioned, the 650 skates out from under you when you try to do high speed turns, even with a finned and longer aftermarket ride plate (just not quite as much) and the ski is very top heavy. It takes a load of practice to get a feel for it and how it wants to react. I would like to have something..even a 550 hull to throw that engine into, if it meant I could get better handling and a more freestyle feel. Until either a SJ or 550 hull comes my way, I'm going to make the best of it with what I have. It has given me some sort of fun and a way out onto the water though so for now that's all I can ask for.

 

[650hor]

what about putting my sxr motor in it.. it will be a little heavier but much lighter then the sxr.. what do you guys think? anyone done it?

 

[Pro-pulsion]

Never done that, but you will still have the handling problems. The extra little bit of power is nice but the hull design and handling is what will get you. I would think that just putting together a plan for some freebie mods with what is already there would be the best bet and keep an open spot in the garage for something else later on down the road. There are a few good and virtually free mods you can do to it to help get a better power to weight ratio and dial in the handling a little too.

 

[anthony_]

first of all, to answer your question here's what nada says about the weight and length. (282 lbs) I think that's dry weight, but I'm not sure.
http://www.nadaguides.com/default.a...&m=0850&y=1990&ml=K&gc=MR&gtc=MR&d=1600097984

Note: you can always check there for length, weight and stock hp. Here is where I start: http://www.nadaguides.com/default.a...50635&l=1&w=24&p=38&f=5693&gc=mr&gtc=mr&any=0

now, as far as the 650sx i know EXACTLY/COMPLETELY/TOTALLY where you're coming from because a year ago I was practically BEGGING anyone I could to tell me that modding my stock 650sx was a viable option over converting to a superjet. Because I learned how to ride a standup on a kawi 650sx (3 years prior), I was confusing the excitement of learning how to ride a standup (coming from a sitdown) with how exciting my 650sx was. Plus, I didn't want to go through what I thought would be a hassle of re-adjusting to riding a superjet from my kawi 650 and kawi 550. Plus, I didn't want to have to go through the hassle of selling my 650 and having to find a quality superjet. Plus, I wanted to be unique in having a freestyle 650sx and being able to do stuff on that instead of a superjet.

But like you, all I got over and over and over and over and over . . . again was, "dude, i used to be like you. i used to love my kawi standups. but once i got a SJ i've never looked back and the sooner you ditch that kawi for a SJ the better!" and there are millions of post here that say the same thing. finding a response from someone who will tell you a kawi is better than a SJ (other than maybe for racing) is like finding needle in a haystack. trust me, i know because i spent HOURS and HOURS searching.

so i gave in and converted to a SN. One of the best decisions i've EVER made in my life! and not just because of the difference between the skis, but because it has made me SO MUCH of a better rider!!! It has only been since March this year that I've had my SN and I am years ahead of where I would be in just 6 months on my SN compared to where I'd be if I kept and modded my 650sx. I have no interest in ever getting back on a kawi standup.

I mean this in a positive way, but you'd be a FOOL not to convert to a SJ.

That's my $.02. Sorry for the rant!

 

[ksarge91]

what about putting my sxr motor in it.. it will be a little heavier but much lighter then the sxr.. what do you guys think? anyone done it?

I think you're missing everyone's point. You could put a 1000cc X scream monster motor in it and it would still not be a good freestyle ski.

You're better off modding the sxr

 

[Pro-pulsion]

i think you're missing everyone's point. You could put a 1000cc x scream monster motor in it and it would still not be a good freestyle ski.

You're better off modding the sxr

+1

 

[anthony_]

i think you're missing everyone's point. You could put a 1000cc x scream monster motor in it and it would still not be a good freestyle ski.

You're better off modding the sxr

x2!

 

[ksarge91]

first of all, to answer your question here's what nada says about the weight and length. (282 lbs) I think that's dry weight, but I'm not sure.
http://www.nadaguides.com/default.a...&m=0850&y=1990&ml=K&gc=MR&gtc=MR&d=1600097984

Note: you can always check there for length, weight and stock hp. Here is where I start: http://www.nadaguides.com/default.a...50635&l=1&w=24&p=38&f=5693&gc=mr&gtc=mr&any=0

now, as far as the 650sx i know EXACTLY/COMPLETELY/TOTALLY where you're coming from because a year ago I was practically BEGGING anyone I could to tell me that modding my stock 650sx was a viable option over converting to a superjet. Because I learned how to ride a standup on a kawi 650sx (3 years prior), I was confusing the excitement of learning how to ride a standup (coming from a sitdown) with how exciting my 650sx was. Plus, I didn't want to go through what I thought would be a hassle of re-adjusting to riding a superjet from my kawi 650 and kawi 550. Plus, I didn't want to have to go through the hassle of selling my 650 and having to find a quality superjet. Plus, I wanted to be unique in having a freestyle 650sx and being able to do stuff on that instead of a superjet.

But like you, all I got over and over and over and over and over . . . again was, "dude, i used to be like you. i used to love my kawi standups. but once i got a SJ i've never looked back and the sooner you ditch that kawi for a SJ the better!" and there are millions of post here that say the same thing. finding a response from someone who will tell you a kawi is better than a SJ (other than maybe for racing) is like finding needle in a haystack. trust me, i know because i spent HOURS and HOURS searching.

so i gave in and converted to a SN. One of the best decisions i've EVER made in my life! and not just because of the difference between the skis, but because it has made me SO MUCH of a better rider!!! It has only been since March this year that I've had my SN and I am years ahead of where I would be in just 6 months on my SN compared to where I'd be if I kept and modded my 650sx. I have no interest in ever getting back on a kawi standup.

I mean this in a positive way, but you'd be a FOOL not to convert to a SJ.

That's my $.02. Sorry for the rant!

I loved my kawi 750 back when I had it. I thought it was the greatest thing ever. But then I got a superjet, and at first I thought it was great! But then I rode a lightweight hull with a monster freestyle motor. And now I think my superjet's a dog!!

 

[tor*p*do]

what about putting my sxr motor in it.. it will be a little heavier but much lighter then the sxr.. what do you guys think? anyone done it?

that is like putting a Boss 302 into a Vega
been done, lots of power and still a pile of dung
replace the powerplant and the hull! :biggrin:

 

[anthony_]

what about putting my sxr motor in it.. it will be a little heavier but much lighter then the sxr.. what do you guys think? anyone done it?

Seems to me you're just looking for affirmation of what you've already decided to do (like I've said, I've been there), instead of information as to what may be best.

 

[fj40cody]

Heres my worthless free advice, I have a 88 650sx and did some mods to make it ride better freestyle. It works just fine for me now, however I have rode pretty hoped up SJ's in my opinion, and there is no dought the super jet is the way to go. I just dont have the money to buy one so untill then its the 650sx. And when I get my SJ the boy will get my 650sx (when he is old enough to ride). I would just do some cheep mods. I just got a freestyle pump cone and it seems to work pretty good. enough that i can notice a diference.

 

[anthony_]

Heres my worthless free advice, I have a 88 650sx and did some mods to make it ride better freestyle. It works just fine for me now, however I have rode pretty hoped up SJ's in my opinion, and there is no dought the super jet is the way to go. I just dont have the money to buy one so untill then its the 650sx. And when I get my SJ the boy will get my 650sx (when he is old enough to ride). I would just do some cheep mods. I just got a freestyle pump cone and it seems to work pretty good. enough that i can notice a diference.

NICE looking 650sx

 

[anthony_]

I Love mine, will pass it on to my son , when hes ready.

This has got to be the sweetest kawi 650 that I've ever seen. And I've seen A LOT of sweet 650s.

 

[z00m]

why thank you , as much as i will be moving to an SJ for 2010, i just have not got the heart to let the 650 go to anyone else, my son is 7 and it will be a few years before i can hand it over to him fully, im thinking twin trailer for 2010 and just use the 650 along side the SJ just for HA HA zzzz.

Mick

 

[anthony_]

why thank you , as much as i will be moving to an SJ for 2010, i just have not got the heart to let the 650 go to anyone else, my son is 7 and it will be a few years before i can hand it over to him fully, im thinking twin trailer for 2010 and just use the 650 along side the SJ just for HA HA zzzz.

Mick

Yeah man, you can't let that go.

 

[ksarge91]

why thank you , as much as i will be moving to an SJ for 2010, i just have not got the heart to let the 650 go to anyone else, my son is 7 and it will be a few years before i can hand it over to him fully, im thinking twin trailer for 2010 and just use the 650 along side the SJ just for HA HA zzzz.

Mick

Definately don't let that go. It won't sell for what it is truley worth. Give it to your son to learn on, and when he's done with it, keep it as a trailer queen!