What happened to the TNT chambers?

[masterblaster]

all this knowledge,lol Im calling this on common sense from riding a few diff setups not technical knowledge. Im aware of the gps mph and tach testing you guys have done and I think that is awesome for racing but freeride low end and mid dont really apply in these tests,especially when your using cut mod pipes for 300 extra rpm.We are on the opposite of the spectrum,you sacrifice a little low and mid to get a little more rpm and a extra mph or so. No one here would do that.
thats why I said jons b1 with a lim pipe would have been right there with yours at wavedaze for what we do,only thing I wonder about is how much extra throttle response comes from 46s than 48s and if thats offset by stock to novi very much.I just bought some used novi 46s to find out. I enjoy motors so I do what I can myself,no other reason.

 

[scottie mac]

Good for you.

Oh by the way, I was running 62t cylinders at wavedaze, while Jon was running 61x with lower port timing. By the way, limited pipe makes less power than mod and even less power than the TNT. If you have the wherewithal to set up the motor, elcs and pump right, no limited pipe will make the power DOWN LOW, mid OR top of a TNT.

And our testing is to make the ski as quick off the line as possible, we aren't looking for top end out of our skis. That is why my spec ski has more low end snap than your stroker.

You have already said you have no ambition to use a TNT, so why is it you keep posting on this thread?

Scottie

 

[Matt_E]

We are on the opposite of the spectrum,you sacrifice a little low and mid to get a little more rpm and a extra mph or so.

Every race boat I've ever tried had better bottom end than most "freeride" engines I've tried.
Not sure why people keep thinking race boats have bad bottom end. They only time they do is when someone that doesn't know much about them buys the engine and then detunes it.

 

[MADMAT]

I have ridden dry piped race boats with 14/18.5's (at least 3 of them...probably way more but those are the ones I remember) and they needed a long run at a wave to get off the ground.

I have seen people (in here and in person) spend a LOT of time and money converting former race skis to get them to be able to leap off of waves...(B pipe, 13/16, cylinder swap...etc...)

I must say I have never ridden a full blown super stock boat and I imagine they hit all through the R's.......but a lot of BS......total loss, water injected dry pipes that clog (inline strainers to prevent it), skat pumps.......no friggin thanks.

 

[Matt_E]

You've ridden sh!tty race boats, apparently.
A boat that "needs a long run at a wave to get off the ground" will never make it to the next buoy first.

 

[Big Kahuna]

A properly tuned superstock / open class ski will pull like a freight train from bottom to top. I have been on a few Superstock SXR's that I would love to drop the motors into a good superjet hull.

 

[MADMAT]

You've ridden sh!tty race boats, apparently.
A boat that "needs a long run at a wave to get off the ground" will never make it to the next buoy first.

They would have had as good a chance making it to the first buoy first as the other boats they were racing....but then they would make it to the rest of them first maybe....depending on the rider I guess.... because they were all mid and high.

 

[Matt_E]

As long as everyone is racing sh!tty boats, I guess bottom end doesn't matter.

 

[MADMAT]

I would think that on a limited race boat you could never have "it" all.....everywhere.

Tis why I said SS prolly rips all across......if you are in to all that BS.

 

[Matt_E]

I've been on stock spec 08 SJ that had killer bottom, mid, and top.

Just my experiences.

IMHO, "freeride" engines are nothing but (relatively) cheap built engines.
They got porting to make nice lowend without the need for more expensive bolt-ons or race gas.

With a better budget, you can build engines that have bottom, mid, and top. Of course, it will require high compression, TL, and the proper porting. But a properly built race engine beats the pants off a "freeride" engine any day.

 

[scottie mac]

It cracks me up some of the misconceptions in this sport, especially on this site.... race motors don't have bottom end.... well, if it isn't built right it probably won't. But, to be honest, I have ridden 'surf' skis that ran like chit because they weren't built right. The other one that cracks me up is 48mil carbs are overkill for a certain motor..... not if they are tuned right, especially if you are using the right 48s. Oh, and lets not forget the strokers are unreliable argument. Strokers aren't unreliable, owners are. MadMatt, if you are ever in my area, look me up, I will put you on a race motor that has some good bottom end.

Scottie

 

[MADMAT]

It cracks me up some of the misconceptions in this sport, especially on this site.... race motors don't have bottom end.... well, if it isn't built right it probably won't. But, to be honest, I have ridden 'surf' skis that ran like chit because they weren't built right. The other one that cracks me up is 48mil carbs are overkill for a certain motor..... not if they are tuned right, especially if you are using the right 48s. Oh, and lets not forget the strokers are unreliable argument. Strokers aren't unreliable, owners are. MadMatt, if you are ever in my area, look me up, I will put you on a race motor that has some good bottom end.

Scottie

Are SS 2 strokes dominating the race scene? Or 4 stroke HS skis? Just curious..

And thanks Mac....I have zero doubt that a SS ski will pull my arms off! I will take you up on that hopefully someday!

 

[masterblaster]

Good for you.



You have already said you have no ambition to use a TNT, so why is it you keep posting on this thread?

Scottie

the subject of your ski at wavedaze just happen to be in this thread,could care less about the pipe deal really. you are the king of vague in most ?s so get what i can here and there,lol. The pipe in jons ski was a mod and it was cut even shorter to gain 300 rpms,you cant tell me it didnt take a loss in low end responce to do that to gain a few mph topend. The lim pipe comes on even 300 rpm sooner than the mod to boot making its pwer band sooner like we need it. even though the mod may make a tad more power is irrelevant again here. id like to see a dyno curve of the tnt vs the mod on a basically stock spec class,surf ski, never happen though...the curve means far more to us than total power at high rpm. Im with you on 48s right now I dont think they are overkill at all.but some testing on novi 46s is in order for us and our fuel economy needs.Your spec b1 has more snap than my stroker? Im starting to lose faith in you now!
kill the argument on race skis having no low end,that quote was takin out of context as usual. Scotts race boats have SICK low end. I just think the spec class ski that jon has could be the same in low end mid with out a $800 chamber to do it.I heard a little bit of why you "choose" a 62t cylin as well.

 

[scottie mac]

Are SS 2 strokes dominating the race scene? Or 4 stroke HS skis? Just curious..

And thanks Mac....I have zero doubt that a SS ski will pull my arms off! I will take you up on that hopefully someday!

Matt,

In limited, the HS is king, period. You can't expect a normal two stroke to be competitive with a forced induction 4 stroke. Those HS are bad a$$. If they weren't so expensive and had a dealer network, you wouldn't hear so many people b1tching about them. That and the fact that they would totally suck in the ocean - too heavy. But, as a bouy race machine, they are tough.

There really aren't anymore SS classes, it is all stock, limited, open (old mod class) and GP (close to anything goes). One of my riding buddies had a 800cc SS built by Ed Brazina that was nearly as snappy as my 8mil pv motor when it came to initial hit. It just didn't have as much power mid and top. Again, a lot of it has to do with who did the motor work and who did the tuning. I would have loved to use that motor in a surf ski with a tnt, but he ended up selling it to build a mod.

Scottie

 

[masterblaster]

phil finally sold that motor on ebay,It went cheap I almost bought it,if he would have sent it cod.

 

[MADMAT]

Matt,

In limited, the HS is king, period. You can't expect a normal two stroke to be competitive with a forced induction 4 stroke. Those HS are bad a$$. If they weren't so expensive and had a dealer network, you wouldn't hear so many people b1tching about them. That and the fact that they would totally suck in the ocean - too heavy. But, as a bouy race machine, they are tough.

There really aren't anymore SS classes, it is all stock, limited, open (old mod class) and GP (close to anything goes). One of my riding buddies had a 800cc SS built by Ed Brazina that was nearly as snappy as my 8mil pv motor when it came to initial hit. It just didn't have as much power mid and top. Again, a lot of it has to do with who did the motor work and who did the tuning. I would have loved to use that motor in a surf ski with a tnt, but he ended up selling it to build a mod.

Scottie

So that vid of a 951 SXR smoking a HS is GP class? So GP is the new SS big dollar loaded 2 stroke boats?

 

[Big Kahuna]

So that vid of a 951 SXR smoking a HS is GP class? So GP is the new SS big dollar loaded 2 stroke boats?

Matt, GP is open class where u can run any motor combo u want as long as it is under the required cc limit.

ie seadoo 951 in an sxr hull or 951 in a sj hull. kawi 1100 triple in a 750sxi pro hull (Rob Flores did this in 2008 Nats).

 

[GIL]

The long story short here is

You aproach engine builder John Doe and specify that you want to utilize a TNT chamber, chances are good that he can design the package around the TNT and make the TNT do what you want it to do. This is my opinion and only my opinion-

builders have worked with thousands of B pipes and therefore know exactly what works and what don't. There are not that many TNT chambers floating around and therefore much less experience in how to make them work.

If I so desired to buy another TNT, I would contact Tim and only Tim and say-"OK, what do I need to do?" And then do it to the letter of the law. If you buy one and don't use his exact recipe then you are on your own and in the middle of a life long guessing game.

 

[MADMAT]

kawi 1100 triple in a 750sxi pro hull (Rob Flores did this in 2008 Nats).

Holy crapoli!

 

[scottie mac]

Matt,

He now has a 1100 with full motor work in a sxr hull and it is pretty nasty. Jimmy Wilson built one in like a week and brought it to the WV race this year and I got a chance to ride it and it was pretty crazy, especially when you think that it was a basically stock motor with zero porting, etc. Paul P's 951 in the SJ is awesome, too. We are building a 951 blaster just to screw around with, should be run.

Scottie