Resin Failure?

[SUPERJET-113]

You keep buying West System, I'll buy the DOW repackaged that is exactly the same, for far less. :bigok:

Three gallons of fine quality resin for 130 bucks.

Not the same stuff and not the same quality from my experience.. I've tried all the ebay epoxy laminating resins.. I bought the 3 gallon package from orionspyramid guy.. I've done my own tests and West was the best for strength and flexibility, US composites was 2nd and orionspyramid was last IMO. I did tests laminating the same schedule and thats what i came up with.. Thats using those 3 epoxys I just mentioned..

I was rebuilding a big part of a wrecked 40' "Skater" speed boat($800,000 new boat), and me and the owner did the tests together... I was laying 3 gallons of epoxy resin a day for weeks rebuilding that thing.. We used epoxy because thats what the customer(owner) wanted. The West was superior, but yes it costs more..

For the price, US composites epoxy is good strong stuff IMO. The ebay stuff is ok too for the price. I used US epoxy for reinforcing my SJ.

.02

 

[thegoldenboy]

MVS is the resin brand, got it from canada composites. I've use it before and it was great.

Its on heat right now, I don't have any direct heat. I boxed it in and ran a heat gun resting on the bench, but I can't leave it like that overnight.

I'll get a new bumb for my 250w shop light. That little tripad bastard get hot enough.

Will see tomorrow. Hopefully it will start to cure.


Funny thing is that the resin didn't really flash initially, maybe the resin and hardner temps were to cold to begin with making it slower.

We'll see with the shop light, if not back to the beginning.....

 

[Matt_E]

Not the same stuff and not the same quality from my experience.. I've tried all the ebay epoxy laminating resins.. I bought the 3 gallon package from orionspyramid guy.. I've done my own tests and West was the best for strength and flexibility, US composites was 2nd and orionspyramid was last IMO. I did tests laminating the same schedule and thats what i came up with.. Thats using those 3 epoxys I just mentioned..

I was rebuilding a big part of a wrecked 40' "Skater" speed boat($800,000 new boat), and me and the owner did the tests together... I was laying 3 gallons of epoxy resin a day for weeks rebuilding that thing.. We used epoxy because thats what the customer(owner) wanted. The West was superior, but yes it costs more..

For the price, US composites epoxy is good strong stuff IMO. The ebay stuff is ok too for the price. I used US epoxy for reinforcing my SJ.

.02

I also have tried numerous brands.

And I had an interesting chat with the owner of Fiberlay about this very subject.
Unless you're building airplanes, the differences are negligible.
In three years of using various resins, I have not had a single product fail. (But I have had issues with my own quality of work, surface prep, etc)

 

[SUPERJET-113]

but Matt, can you truly say that West System epoxy resin is the exact same resin with the same quality as Ebays sellers orionspyramids epoxy resin? I know I cant..

I can say that he is great Ebay seller, fast shipper, and that I have bought 6 gallons total from him in the past.. Most of that went to this one dude who wanted cheap epoxy resin to reinforce the back inside end of his Eliminator Daytona tunnel hull boat.

BTW - Your epoxy resin, 5200 mix with carbon fiber weave didnt hold on the plastic oem chin pad that you sold me! hee hee :smile:

 

[Matt_E]

I cannot say that it is the same resin.

I can say that neither company makes their own resin. Stuff I buy is DOW, not sure who makes the West System.

I will also say that I am convinced it makes no difference on a ski hull.

 

[tomski]

If you would have used a Vinyl Ester Resin, this project would have been finished 3 days ago.

You guys wouldn't need to spend all night arguing over which epoxy resin to use. I only use epoxy with smc. (West System)

No reason to use epoxy on a OEM RN top deck.

 

[QJS]

If you would have used a Vinyl Ester Resin, this project would have been finished 3 days ago.

You guys wouldn't need to spend all night arguing over which epoxy resin to use. I only use epoxy with smc. (West System)

No reason to use epoxy on a OEM RN top deck.

This is good advice, its a complete overkill to use epoxy for footholds however that does'nt help you Goldenboy, put some heat on it like Mat said all laminating epoxies are stronger for being post cured anyway. Its possible that the hardeners have been mixed up somehow when it was packaged some hardeners will never cure at room temperature. Also epoxy is hydroscopic as its curing so you need to get it heated up and cured as fast as possible if working in damp conditions. you can tell if this has happened because the epoxy takes on a slightly milky apearance.
Chris.

 

[kevbo]

If you use less than a gallon of epoxy per year then the consumer repackaged stuff like West is probably best because they tend to blend it to be most user friendly. For bigger projects find a comercial epoxy blender and ask for 828 by the pound. Do some research and find a hardener that suits your needs. Epikure 3223 is a great hardner for laminations up to about 1/4 inch thick, it will cook off if any thicker.

 

[cattledog]

MVS is the resin brand, got it from canada composites. I've use it before and it was great.

Its on heat right now, I don't have any direct heat. I boxed it in and ran a heat gun resting on the bench, but I can't leave it like that overnight.

I'll get a new bumb for my 250w shop light. That little tripad bastard get hot enough.

Will see tomorrow. Hopefully it will start to cure. did mine last week in toronto use a heater the cold will still come from ground foor, its not hot enough i used same brand as you it worked great, i used a heater about 5 ft away pointing to ski tray.




QUOTE]

 

[Frosty]

living up north, I've had that happen before.

My shop is heated by a wood burning stove that I cannot leave unattended. So once I finish up for the day, whenever I work with epoxy during the winter I make sure to put a lamp near the project when I am finished. Sometimes I will cover it like a tent with a moving blanket, with the lamp under it to keep the heat in.

It doesn't have to be a heat lamp either... just a light with a 75 watt bulb can keep the temp up enough to allow for proper curing.

I hate cold weather!!

 

[WFO Speedracer]

Dosen't matter to me MATT I am a Port Supply customer,that means I don't pay retail for WEST SYSTEM, I can walk in any West Marine store and walk out with it at wholesale pricing,so yes I will keep using WEST SYSTEM,I am probably getting it for less than you pay for the cheap stuff plus no shipping charges. :nutkick:

 

[thegoldenboy]

If you would have used a Vinyl Ester Resin, this project would have been finished 3 days ago.

You guys wouldn't need to spend all night arguing over which epoxy resin to use. I only use epoxy with smc. (West System)

No reason to use epoxy on a OEM RN top deck.

I've always used epoxy. The point is its not curing, not what resin was used. I buy epoxy because I know I'll have to use it on the hull eventually...

Still a bit gummy this morning, dried up some but still not happy, need to apply more heat this evening.

Hat is still on, temps are over 70 all day/night.

 

[Matt_E]

If you use less than a gallon of epoxy per year then the consumer repackaged stuff like West is probably best because they tend to blend it to be most user friendly. For bigger projects find a comercial epoxy blender and ask for 828 by the pound. Do some research and find a hardener that suits your needs. Epikure 3223 is a great hardner for laminations up to about 1/4 inch thick, it will cook off if any thicker.

DOW 828 is exactly what I use. What Orionspyramid sells.

 

[Matt_E]

Dosen't matter to me MATT I am a Port Supply customer,that means I don't pay retail for WEST SYSTEM, I can walk in any West Marine store and walk out with it at wholesale pricing,so yes I will keep using WEST SYSTEM,I am probably getting it for less than you pay for the cheap stuff plus no shipping charges. :nutkick:

I pay $138 shipped for three gallons. What do you pay?

EDIT: I just checked. IT seems the resin (105?) retails for 89 per gallon. Not sure what the mix ratios are for West System, but for 3 gallons product (Epoxy + hardener), I doubt you come in under $140 for three gallons.
I might be wrong.

Look, it's pointless. Use whatever you want. I am giving people the advice NOT to spend all their money on a Brand Name resin, because it's not worth it.
That said, use what you want.

 

[SUPERJET-113]

I only use epoxy with smc.

Dont forget metton(SN top deck/hood material).

You guys wouldn't need to spend all night arguing over which epoxy resin to use.

Then there would be nothing for you to read!! lol

 

[wydopen]

If you would have used a Vinyl Ester Resin, this project would have been finished 3 days ago.

You guys wouldn't need to spend all night arguing over which epoxy resin to use. I only use epoxy with smc. (West System)

No reason to use epoxy on a OEM RN top deck.

Toms knows what hes talking about..id listen to him :notworthy:

 

[SUPERJET-113]

There is nothing wrong with using epoxy for extra strength where you want it... and yes Tomski know his shizz!

 

[Kennay]

Dosen't matter to me MATT I am a Port Supply customer,that means I don't pay retail for WEST SYSTEM, I can walk in any West Marine store and walk out with it at wholesale pricing,so yes I will keep using WEST SYSTEM,I am probably getting it for less than you pay for the cheap stuff plus no shipping charges. :nutkick:

I have a psa as well. I just sent you a pm :smokin:

 

[onesojourner]

did you get slow cure epoxy? I have had the fast cure stuff harden up in 50 F no problem.

 

[thegoldenboy]

Fast hardner was used, I've had it cure in cold temps before too. Its weird, I did nothing diffrent I didn't do last year when reinforcing, except the direct heat to the resin (heat lamp)