moved posts from riverrat's thread

[the WaTeRhAwK]

I had VF 1's on my squarenose, and they were soft pieces of junk. I quit using the carbon reeds because they chipped up and became trash. they're really only good for racing, IMO. unless you just like clenaing chunks of them out of your engine quite frequently and replacing the petals, depending on how much you ride.

 

[Matt_E]

I had VF 1's on my squarenose, and they were soft pieces of junk. I quit using the carbon reeds because they chipped up and became trash. they're really only good for racing, IMO. unless you just like clenaing chunks of them out of your engine quite frequently and replacing the petals, depending on how much you ride.

Nonsense.

 

[the WaTeRhAwK]

Nonsense.

ofcourse it is, matt, then you get pieces of carbon in between your pistons and you cylinder walls that just score the absolute hell out of your setup, or a chunk or two makes it's way into your pulseline(s) then you're like "well, goddamn, I wish I knew how to listen to people and use my brain."

you, my friend, happen to be the absolute personification of the word "nonsense".

LOL

 

[Matt_E]

ofcourse it is, matt, then you get pieces of carbon in between your pistons and you cylinder walls that just score the absolute hell out of your setup, or a chunk or two makes it's way into your pulseline(s) then you're like "well, goddamn, I wish I knew how to listen to people and use my brain."

you, my friend, happen to be the absolute personification of the word "nonsense".

LOL

Again, nonsense. Keep your theory about the uselessness of carbon fiber petals to yourself, 'genius', because they don't hold water.
If you'd like to argue, take it to PM.

BTW, I do believe that VF1 reeds do not last long - that has to do with the VF1 design.
VF2 reeds last a LONG time. (So do other CF reeds)
The only times I've broken them were due to water ingestion and subsequent case pressurization.

Oh, and if you really think that CF chews up bores, I've got an extractor exhaust to sell you.

 

[SuperJETT]

vforce 1 last much longer with a reed spacer to get them away from some of the crank turbulence.

 

[Matt_E]

Same for the VF2....it's always recommended to run them with a spacer.

 

[Freestyleriverrat]

vf-1's have held up fine for me. I am sure there are better designs out there but they work well non the less

 

[the WaTeRhAwK]

Again, nonsense. Keep your theory about the uselessness of carbon fiber petals to yourself, 'genius', because they don't hold water.
If you'd like to argue, take it to PM.

BTW, I do believe that VF1 reeds do not last long - that has to do with the VF1 design.
VF2 reeds last a LONG time. (So do other CF reeds)
The only times I've broken them were due to water ingestion and subsequent case pressurization.

Oh, and if you really think that CF chews up bores, I've got an extractor exhaust to sell you.

matt, I'm not going to argue with you because there's absolutely no sense it trying to get through to you, however, if you don't think that a chunk of friggin' carbon that gets smashed between a piston and a cylinder, won't score up the cylinder walls and/or the side of the piston, then you have absolutely NO basic knowledge of engines, nor should you even be attempting to profess that you know contrary to a well known fact.
one of the first things you learn when messing with engines is that carbon can mess up the top end if it's not eradicated regularly. carbon fiber is of no particular exception to the rule, genius. it's just as hard and tough as the stuff that build up on top of the piston crowns, and chunks of it will chew a top end to hell. genius.

the problem with carbon fiber reeds is that the carbon itself is so stiff compared to conventional reed materials like fiberglass and/ nylon, that it doesn't flex as much as the other materials, and the heating and cooling of the petals over a short period of time causes the resin in the matrix to break down and become weak, when this happens the petals will flutter and slap the cages, as they always do, and the resistance of the carbon's ability to "flex" will cause chunks to break off and go throughout your engine.
sorry, but it's already happened too many times before you said it doesn't... you're kindof late to attempt fooling anyone with your jibberish......lol

genius.:smile:


and I never said they were usless, brainiac, what I said was they're only good for racing, unless you like to frequently replace your reeds for recrational purposes. in racing, engines get torn down and rebuilt regularly.
stop trying to change my words and/or the meanings to what I say.


the cages are much beter built on the vf-2's, but the petals are the same materials, the vf-2's are subject to flying apart, as well.

 

[IceRocket1286]

i sucked a carbon reed through my sj and no problems were had, at ALL.

 

[the WaTeRhAwK]

i sucked a carbon reed through my sj and no problems were had, at ALL.

yeah, sometimes you can pull all kinds of stuff through the engine and it not do anything at all, I've seen nuts and bolts go through them and wind up in the pipe and never hurt anything at all,too. and knowing matt, he will take what you said as gospel to the support of his "theory" that it will not happen.
however, you have to realize that the petals are very thin, and the last thing you want is a small piece of one finding it's way in between the piston and the cylinder wall.
I have a set of vf-1's sitting on the shelf and the edges of the petals are tattered to hell, and the engine they came off of looked like hell on the inside when it was torn down. they're only good for a certain amount of hours of extreme riding, at which point they need to be changed. another racing expense.

lol

 

[Mouthfulloflake]

Not to fluff the fire here.

but, wouldnt the top piston ring prevent anything from getting 'between' the piston and cylinder wall?

I mean, they are pretty close together, exactly how thin of a piece are you worried about?

you have to realize that the petals are very thin, and the last thing you want is a small piece of one finding it's way in between the piston and the cylinder wall
lol

 

[Freestyleriverrat]

:haha: You guys crack me up! At least you guys are not neighbors. There would be carbon reeds and jet ski parts flying all over the place :haha:

 

[the WaTeRhAwK]

Not to fluff the fire here.

but, wouldnt the top piston ring prevent anything from getting 'between' the piston and cylinder wall?

I mean, they are pretty close together, exactly how thin of a piece are you worried about?

all it takes is a fragment, matt. it's not the big pieces flying off you're worried about getting in between the surfaces.
what happens is, the "chunks" find their way to the crank bearings and get mixed all up and throughout them, then the crank bearing start pulverizing the chunks.
out of what gets pulverized and not shot out of the motor, usually winds up through the transfer ports, mixed with fuel/oil between the piston and cylinder surfaces, and completely fk's them off. at that point you might as well grab a handful of sand and drop it into the carb while you're goosing the throttle. you will get the same effect, pretty much.
I had to bore the cylinders and get new/bigger pistons.

 

[snowxr]

matt, I'm not going to argue with you because there's absolutely no sense it trying to get through to you,

SNIP!

Sorry to cut you off, but when you say " I'm not going to argue with you" THAT is when you are supposed to SHUT UP and quit blabbering on and on ( and on..) about why you think you are right.

You're wrong, btw.

 

[the WaTeRhAwK]

SNIP!

Sorry to cut you off, but when you say " I'm not going to argue with you" THAT is when you are supposed to SHUT UP and quit blabbering on and on ( and on..) about why you think you are right.

You're wrong, btw.

uhm... sniphead, sorry to cut you off, but you're retarded.

shut up.


carbon fragments WILL screw a top end to hell, dumbass.

and mind your own business. it's of absolutely NONE of your concern what I say to matt, or your business if I keep responding or not. and if you think I'm wrong, ask around a bit, I'm sure you will realize that you are the one that is VERY wrong.

 

[the WaTeRhAwK]

rat, the only way to keep the reeds an reed cages from being exposed to heating up and cooling down fluctuations is that if there were a constant flow of air going across them even after the engine is shut off.
as soon as you shut down the engine, the heat from the rest of the motor is balanced, and transfered to the rest of the engine as it cools off (that includes the reeds and reed cages) that's why the VF cages are made from polymer instead or aluminum, because it helps to reduce the heat tranfer to the petals, however, it is not eliminated, due to the sheer atmospheric exposure.

 

[SuperJETT]

rat, the only way to keep the reeds an reed cages from being exposed to heating up and cooling down fluctuations is that if there were a constant flow of air going across them even after the engine is shut off.
as soon as you shut down the engine, the heat from the rest of the motor is balanced, and transfered to the rest of the engine as it cools off (that includes the reeds and reed cages) that's why the VF cages are made from polymer instead or aluminum, because it helps to reduce the heat tranfer to the petals, however, it is not eliminated, due to the sheer atmospheric exposure.

I take it you designed the v-force reed cages and selected the material then.

Travis, you don't know why, you're just assuming something based on what you want the reason to be.

Show some proof behind what you're spouting off, otherwise it's just your opinion, not fact.

 

[the WaTeRhAwK]

I take it you designed the v-force reed cages and selected the material then.

Travis, you don't know why, you're just assuming something based on what you want the reason to be.

Show some proof behind what you're spouting off, otherwise it's just your opinion, not fact.

I just love it how people without much engine experience try to come in and question the experience of those of us who actually have the experience.
experience, experience, experience.
do you think I said it enough times, Darin?
or here, I'll just assume some more experience and just senselessly rattle off some more basic laws of physics surrounding our engines and materials.
I have proof of it sitting right in front on me on my desk and in my garage, in the form of completely f'kd off reeds, and a rebuilt engine sitting in a squarenose.
Darin, do some research and asking around about things BEFORE you go telling someone that what they're saying regarding a particular subject is wrong.
ask any racer, sposored by V-Force, they'll tell you the same thing, the reeds are only good for a few races and then they're done.

and not recommended for rec riding purposes.

 

[waxhead]

wow i have used v-force reeds till the cages wore out
that was 2.5 years and i was winning races on them
I much have a cold style engine

 

[the WaTeRhAwK]

wow, wax, you are soooo full of crap.
lol
there's absolutely NO way in hell you used the same carbon reeds until the polymer cages wore out. you are LYING....


and it's just completely rediculous for you to even attempt making a statement like that.
if you only knew how stupid it makes you look.