More EPA talk

[makejetskiinggreatagain]

So just came across this little section form the EPA clean air act, the document that has spawned two stroke bans. Take a look at this: Clean Air Act subsections 216 (10) and (11) exclude engines and vehicles “used solely for competition” .

As this pertains to our sport, we all know the post 08 superjets are sold as being labeled "closed course race only". Are there grounds to argue that these are exempt from the regulations imposed on other two strokes and could then be used on lakes such as Powell? As I read it, since the vehicle is used for competition, it is excluded. It doesn't specify it is only excluded when used during competitions. Thoughts?

Also, does anyone know if are there any motorsport organizations that regularly challenge new EPA regulations/restrictions in court and stay up to date on all issues that pertain to motorsports? I wouldn't mind sending some support their way financially.

 

[Berky]

Some good questions , I wonder if Dan or Kyle at Dasa would know being in the belly of the beast (Califorina) .

 

[SpaceCowboy]

I work for the EPA I probably could get a real answer of what the language means


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[red_ak_ranger]

I work for the EPA I probably could get a real answer of what the language means


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I don't have the patience to look through this but here is the Cali clean water act. http://www.swrcb.ca.gov/laws_regulations/

I assume, in this case, that in issues of contention, EPA standards prevail. BUT, when one law is stronger than the other, the stronger law is the rule. So you would also have to see what california says for 2 strokes.

 

[SpaceCowboy]

I don't have the patience to look through this but here is the Cali clean water act. http://www.swrcb.ca.gov/laws_regulations/

I assume, in this case, that in issues of contention, EPA standards prevail. BUT, when one law is stronger than the other, the stronger law is the rule. So you would also have to see what california says for 2 strokes.

"The people's Republic of California" has stricter laws. I work in Air Quality which is what part of the EPA that is after 2 strokes. I'll try to talk to some people today after o get my testing done.


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[Big Kahuna]

"for Competition Use Only" . Intent would be on a track........ in competition.......... at a race............ It is just a loop hole they are using to be able to sell them.

 

[makejetskiinggreatagain]

"for Competition Use Only" . Intent would be on a track........ in competition.......... at a race............ It is just a loop hole they are using to be able to sell them.

Yes but where would a racer practice? Would he then not be allowed to use his race ski if practicing somewhere other than a course designated for practicing? If it is a loop hole used for sales, why cant it be a loop hole for use?

 

[red_ak_ranger]

Yes but where would a racer practice? Would he then not be allowed to use his race ski if practicing somewhere other than a course designated for practicing? If it is a loop hole used for sales, why cant it be a loop hole for use?

This is a crappy answer but probably because Yamaha can throw lawyers at the EPA to clarify the "for comp only" and if you're stopped at a lake...you can potentially get away with it by spending thousands on a lawyer only. Yamaha doesn't defend your ability to ride. Just their ability to sell

Kind of a "money talks" argument.

 

[makejetskiinggreatagain]

So then my other question is does anyone know of a group who are trying to defend our ability to ride?

 

[SpaceCowboy]

So just came across this little section form the EPA clean air act, the document that has spawned two stroke bans. Take a look at this: Clean Air Act subsections 216 (10) and (11) exclude engines and vehicles “used solely for competition” .

As this pertains to our sport, we all know the post 08 superjets are sold as being labeled "closed course race only". Are there grounds to argue that these are exempt from the regulations imposed on other two strokes and could then be used on lakes such as Powell? As I read it, since the vehicle is used for competition, it is excluded. It doesn't specify it is only excluded when used during competitions. Thoughts?

Also, does anyone know if are there any motorsport organizations that regularly challenge new EPA regulations/restrictions in court and stay up to date on all issues that pertain to motorsports? I wouldn't mind sending some support their way financially.

First let me make myself clear. I work for the EPA but I am not representing them. This is not an official statement. Now what I gather from some colleagues at work:

As for the EPA regarding the Clean Air Act regarded the red bold print above this gets manufacturers out of getting their engines certified because they are for "competition". State/DNR laws may inhibit the use of these vessels due to their own laws.

What it really comes down to is enforcement and how that is implemented in our sport.

For places that enforce certain 2 stroke rules I would say you would need a sanctioned event with permits and such.

Hope this helps and I can ask/answer more questions as they come up. Friday is my day off so the earliest I could get more info would be monday.

 

[Quinc]

So then my other question is does anyone know of a group who are trying to defend our ability to ride?

Might be surfer group that want to use skis for towing into surf.

 

[Pro-pulsion]

I was just reading up a little on this and thought I would add this link to it...

http://watercraftjournal.com/kevin-shaw-the-man-who-killed-the-jetski/

In a way it's not directly detailed toward the EPA and 2-stroke production and yet it sort of is. It is an interesting read and does give some insight as to why we never see anything new in the way of the 2-stroke SuperJet other than colors and graphics.

 

[Schmidty721]

EPA/CARB regulations are for the manufactures. Whether or not a local governing body enforces these regulations is dependent on location. If a particular lake has a band on 2-stroke PWC's it's because they chose to enforce it. Ultimately it is up to the end users discretion on where they ride, but don't expect to pull out the "for Closed Course Competition Use" statement above and get yourself out of a ticket. That's like installing and aftermarket exhaust system on your bike and tearing through a town that happens to enforce noise pollution.

 

[SpaceCowboy]

EPA/CARB regulations are for the manufactures. Whether or not a local governing body enforces these regulations is dependent on location. If a particular lake has a band on 2-stroke PWC's it's because they chose to enforce it. Ultimately it is up to the end users discretion on where they ride, but don't expect to pull out the "for Closed Course Competition Use" statement above and get yourself out of a ticket. That's like installing and aftermarket exhaust system on your bike and tearing through a town that happens to enforce noise pollution.

Ah yes another emissions testing guy.


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[Schmidty721]

Ah yes another emissions testing guy.


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Except I'm on the other side of the fence than you!