FX-1 FX1, 144 Pump 10/16 -7, JD Intake, Protech Plate Need more Power

[kkosche]

Just did a 144 Pump Convert. Running Hooker 10/16 -7mm impeller. JD Intake and Protec (modified) ride plate. Motor is bone stock. It has been recommended to me to: "ADA head, porting, B pipe, advent ignition" for the next set of mods to help spin that larger pump / impeller.

Questions:

1. Pipe swap first?

2. Assuming Pipe swap . . . If I am not interested in top end (I'm not) and looking mainly for low end grunt, do I really need the ignition? The Advent is really expensive. If the ignition is needed, can't I solve with a stock set up modified by Protec? Recommendations please.

3. As for the head . . I want longevity out of my 61x motor. My thought process is to avoid the head, keep the RPM's lower (assuming it doesn't cost low end) by not doing the ignition mod . . and see if the pipe will give me enough. Is my logic flawed?

4. My ski has a one way valve in the back. After hard riding . . in never have more than 1/4" of water in the hull. I do not have a bilge pump. I assume if this valve fails (ever heard of this happening?) my ski will sink (assuming I am not moving / can't get it started when out from shore). I really don't want to have another control on my handle bars . . any one gone with a float type of bilge? Only looking for it to kick on in such an emergency situation where the hull is filling with water while I'm filling my paints trying to get the ski started.

Thanks in advance for any guidance you all can provide.

 

[curt248]

Did you gut out the intake to superjet size and use a superjet intake grate?

 

[yamanube]

I would definitely do the pipe first.

 

[FX-Rex]

Do all mods in steps. Don't do them all at once. I'd get a pipe first, then an ignition enhancer (MSD, Protec, Riva, modded stock one). Then maybe have your stock flywheel lightened or up the head compression.

I've had good luck with my Blowsion one way valve, it never leaked. But a bilge is good insurance, don't get a float switch, just get a rotary switch and mount it to the dash.

 

[kkosche]

Did you gut out the intake to superjet size and use a superjet intake grate?

Nope. Just insured a good seal with what was there.

 

[kkosche]

Do all mods in steps. Don't do them all at once. I'd get a pipe first, then an ignition enhancer (MSD, Protec, Riva, modded stock one). Then maybe have your stock flywheel lightened or up the head compression.

Step-wise approach makes sense. Any comments to my longevity question on the 61x block (avoiding increasing compressing / higher RPM's w/ignition mods)?

Any guess at what % of additional low in pop I will get from the Pipe vs the Pipe + Ignition vs Pipe + ignition + compression? In other words, does the Pipe get me 60-80% of the overall gain? Or something much less, than the eventual full package?

 

[yamanube]

On a stock motor you will probably not notice the igntion or head at all, throw the pipe on and it comes to life, from there it just depends on how much money you want to spend. Once you put the pipe on, you will probably barely notice the head or ignition, none of those mods (if installed properly) will decrease the life of your engine.

 

[OCD Solutions]

Why not drop down to the Hooker 9/15? It is perfect for a stock to limited machine and will work well as you progress thru all your bolt ons. If you start with the big prop you will likely have to do most of the mods on your list before you have the power to spin that prop properly.

The 10/16 is a logical next step for alot of riders on here that started out with the 9/15 and now looking to upgrade so a straight up trade should be pretty easy to set up. I just upgraded myself a few weeks back and would have traded with you in a heartbeat.

 

[kkosche]

Why not drop down to the Hooker 9/15? It is perfect for a stock to limited machine and will work well as you progress thru all your bolt ons. If you start with the big prop you will likely have to do most of the mods on your list before you have the power to spin that prop properly.

The 10/16 is a logical next step for alot of riders on here that started out with the 9/15 and now looking to upgrade so a straight up trade should be pretty easy to set up. I just upgraded myself a few weeks back and would have traded with you in a heartbeat.

Humm. . . when I got my pump back from Elmer there was some confusion on the impeller. What was originally recommended was, "Skat Trak 12/17 free ride swirl impeller."

What I received was a Skat Trak 13/17 (stamped on the impeller itself) . . box said "144 Hooker, 10/16 - 7M" Some confusion on what in the box from Impros. . . My guess is what I have is what was on the box, (10/16 -7M) since the impeller was cut to set the impeller back. . I had to space it forward a tad just to keep it from making hard contact with the inside the seal (mating surface to impeller when it is screwed on the shaft. I ran all this by Elmer as I was doing the installation. His thought was that the 10/16 would be better for my set up than the 12/17 . . which from your suggestion would indeed be the case . . . as you are suggesting I consider an impeller one step smaller than even the 10/16.

 

[OCD Solutions]

There should be something stamped on the impeller stating what pitch, setback etc. The setback of 7mm is engraved on the inside of the hub, the pitch usually stamped on the outside. If it has been repitched the stamping should be updated. Step 1 will be to confirm what impellor you actually have.

If you were to call Dave at Impros and tell him your setup he would likely suggest the 9/15 as he has to many of us already. I run the 9/15 on my g/f's ski with a stock 701, B-pipe, enhancer and lightweight flywheel and she is very happy with it. I had one on my ported 760 and it while it had awesome bottom end, it didn't have enough mid to top end. I am now running the 10/16 and love it, I miss a little bottom end but you can't have everything, (Unless you spend more $$.)

Others can likely chime in and give their $ 0.02 but I think that you would be further ahead to drop to the 9/15 and start there. I would equate it to a sticking big tires on a car before building up the engine to spin them.

I actually have my old 9/15 on the shelf still, get a few more opinions and if others agree that the 9/15 would be better, maybe we can work something out and you can try it. I plan on bumping the g/f's ski up to a ported 760 soon so the 10/16 might be better to have on the shelf than a 9/15. (that is if you actually have the 10/16...check that out ASAP!!)

 

[yamanube]

Skip the impeller, head and ignition and buy a pipe, seriously.

 

[LBE]

A pipe will probably be the most noticible gain in power. I noticed almost nothing with the head. I would pass on that ignition as well. Send your stock flywheel to get it lightened ($55). While the flywheel is off, advance your static timing 2 -3 degrees. If you want to send me your CDI I can remove the rev limiter. The pipe and this ignition set up gave me the best results. You can have Pro-Tec mill your stock head for like $60. I ran this for years in my FX with a 144 and it was responsive and quick. Aside from the pipe you are only spending $150 +/-.

 

[kkosche]

There should be something stamped on the impeller stating what pitch, setback etc. The setback of 7mm is engraved on the inside of the hub, the pitch usually stamped on the outside. If it has been repitched the stamping should be updated. Step 1 will be to confirm what impellor you actually have.

If what is actually engraved on the impeller rules, then "What I received was a Skat Trak 13/17 (stamped on the impeller itself)".

While I did not specifically look inside the hub, don't remember seeing anything in there . . so maybe what I got is what is stamped and it was placed in a used/old box. Net / Net: doesn't sound like I know what I got.

B-Pipe and B-Pipe related tuning (carb) seems to be the definitive answer here . . . I think I'll try to find one of those at a reasonable cost . . HA! and make that the winter project . . along with the bilge pump / switch.

I am going to have to noodle on the impeller a bit . . . and see if I can determine what I got, short of pulling it back a part and shipping pieces somewhere.

What is the 9/15 used impeller worth? 6 Small on a B-Pipe is going to zip the family fun funds I think.

Thanks again for all the help / time in providing the guidance. It is appreciated.

 

[FX-Rex]

yeah, bpipes are expensive but they are other alternatives, not complicate things.
Mod pipe will fit with stock tank, or you can cram a superjet tank in there and a limited will fit. Other wet pipes are a coffman sizzler, protec pipe, or mod a wetjet pipe. Or you can trim the around the hood seal and stick a riva red pipe or a factory type 4. others have had success sticking a 650 kawi pipe on a factory/coffman manifold.
Step back and grab some popcorn if you start asking which pipe is best... The B pipe is the most popular, but thats not to say that some of the others arn't as good, if not better.

 

[OCD Solutions]

The 13/17 isn't a bad prop either, my 96 had one but it came with a Riva Handling package that included a Riva Red pipe, Enhancer, reeds, and a new intake and grate. It will still work for your application, the 9/15 is fairly new and what you have has been the gold standard for limited setups for many years. I have pics of them side by side i can post later to help you identify them.

I'm going to say stay away from the red pipe, especially if you have to mod anything to get it to fit. They are very top heavy and prone to coming apart at the headpipe joint. I had a coffman sizzler that I ran for over 7 years trouble free, I now have B-pipes and wouldn't even think of changing. They are the favourite for a reason.

Save your money on the lightened flywheel, yes it makes a difference, but not one that you will even notice, advancing your timing 2-3° is a good move though and it's free.

 

[curt248]

What does a setback impeller do? Would getting one, be similar of the same as the 08/09 superjet setup (I'm talking for my rn sj)? Does it keep the pump hooked up better?

 

[kkosche]

Ok. . I got a call in to IMPROS to back track the shipping information so I can confirm what I have is a 13/17 Skat. I am also finalizing a purchase of a used B-Pipe and new Carb Rebuilt Kit, Jets and Spring. From all the generous advice given, this looks like the best "next step" in my skis journey.

One follow up question on Bilge pumps. I had a used RULE 360 GPH pump in my inventory. I pulled it out and starting think about a bilge install. I already have billet hardware . . but given how much my ski spends it time under water . . I am not to keen on having another hole in the hull w/o a proper check valve. As stated in my earlier thread, I am only looking for a bilge to be a fail safe to my one way valve. The bilge would give me a switch to hit, if I see I am taking on water and can't get the motor started. Since I don't plan on this happening very often (hopefully not at all) I don't like the idea of water rushing in through a new 1/2" hole in my hull every time I submerge my ski. Seems like a check valve would solve it (RULE's website does not say anything about their bilges have this as a built in feature). . . I also saw some online comments with respect to check valves and bilges are not a good idea . . but in my application (emergency, triggered via a switch) I would think a check valve would be OK.

As with everything else in my life . . this is not the first time someone has broken ground around bilge pumps and check valves in an FX1 . . so experts, what says thee?

Thanks again everyone.

k

 

[curt248]

I think a bunch of people just run the bildge the entire time they ride and only turn it off when they reach shore.

I just had my ski sunk today and a bildge would have been a lifesaver. I really have never had more than an inch or two of water in my ski. Today the hose the shoots water into the pipe came off and filled the engine compartment with water. Not fun.

On the bright side, I now know how to clear water out of an engine.

Does anyone know if there is any oil in the ski that needs to be replaced after something like this?

 

[kkosche]

curt248 - Check out the this thread. Should give you the info you need. Net / net get that ski to run . . . like NOW.

http://www.x-h2o.com/threads/57693&highlight=sunk+ski

I think a bunch of people just run the bildge the entire time they ride and only turn it off when they reach shore.

I just had my ski sunk today and a bildge would have been a lifesaver. I really have never had more than an inch or two of water in my ski. Today the hose the shoots water into the pipe came off and filled the engine compartment with water. Not fun.

On the bright side, I now know how to clear water out of an engine.

Does anyone know if there is any oil in the ski that needs to be replaced after something like this?

 

[KR]

A pipe will probably be the most noticible gain in power. I noticed almost nothing with the head. I would pass on that ignition as well. Send your stock flywheel to get it lightened ($55). While the flywheel is off, advance your static timing 2 -3 degrees. If you want to send me your CDI I can remove the rev limiter. The pipe and this ignition set up gave me the best results. You can have Pro-Tec mill your stock head for like $60. I ran this for years in my FX with a 144 and it was responsive and quick. Aside from the pipe you are only spending $150 +/-.

Best setup