Other Fuel Additive

[RoTAxGreNade]

Was having a discussion with Rick @ X Scream about domes and squish and we got into the octane/ compression thing.
Like Rick, I have always ran 200+ on 93 on just about all my motors (surf)and with proper jetting and cooling they all have lived normal long lives for a 2 cylinder salt water pump.

Has anyone ever used Aces IV fuel additives?
We have a bunch of local guys with very fast tunnel/pickle forks varying from all states of tune and the guys on the Scream and Fly forum boards mostly swear by this stuff ....

I have always been old school and skeptical about "octane boosters" (unless it is straight up TEL or toluene )

http://www.bndautomotive.com/page/page/931760.htm

any thoughts?

 

[Idok]

these are the kinds of questions were supposed to ask YOU!

 

[RoTAxGreNade]

I ordered the diesel and gas formula so I guess I'll be the guinea pig - not that I have ever really needed anything like this as I have ran 93 with 200# in all my motors with no issues but a little insurance margin wouldn't hurt and I want to run it in the G35 as you can feel the difference with octane and difference fuel blends.
The ACES IV runs for $69.95/qt and will treat 192 gallons and the diesel is $89.95 and will treat 500 gallons btw.

 

[mcguirejohnson]

Whenever you try this stuff out, I would like to know how it works.

 

[Waternut]

Has anyone ever used Aces IV fuel additives?
We have a bunch of local guys with very fast tunnel/pickle forks varying from all states of tune and the guys on the Scream and Fly forum boards mostly swear by this stuff ....

...and the Rice Burners swear by "NOS" octane booster yet it's one of the lowest quality octane boosters out there.

I was reading over BND's site and they don't make a single claim about anything. They give you mixing ratios but don't tell you how much this increases the octane or anything useful. I would think that if you believed in your product, you would want to advertise the capability of it.

 

[RoTAxGreNade]

ACES IV Gasoline Formula chemically changes 87 octane fuel up to a 96 octane effect, 89 to up to 98 and 93 is improved up to a 102 Motor (112 Research) octane effect. It contains a high quality fuel injector/carburetor cleaner for proper spray patterns.

ACES IV also has 5 times the synthetic lead byproduct that produces a copious upper cylinder lubricant that reduces cylinder/bore wear by 600% and valve recession by 360%

I see they say it raises the the numbers to xxx "effect" which I am curious about.

Comparing outboard guys to rice burners is night and day and I don't think any serious motor head puts stock in what the burners say works... ( not saying there aren't rice burners who know their stuff and have fast cars but I am talking about the majority of that ignorant "fast and furious" populace with the fart cans and wings on the back ). The gaggle of local guys down here are running 100 mph+ and are serious about their motors, if not more than we are - cut heads, porting, flywheels on the fly fuel curves etc and they have 6 holes to fix and expensive cranks to repair when things go wrong so it never hurts to keep an open mind to what is being used in other performance arenas.

Keep in mind "race fuel" isn't solely used for anti knock but more for its blend to produce proper flame burn and speed for the application ( look how many blends VP offers - mind boggling) -I would never say this or any additive short of plain old TEL is a substitute for race gas if that is what your requirements are, but more of a safety cushion for anti knock/deto and cylinder lubrication.
here's an interesting read on using toluene as an octane booster..... 114 R/M 2)
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/misc/octaneexplained.html

 

[Freakrider]

I have been interested for several years now in using toluene as an octane booster/safety cushion for running borderline high compression #'s...you can buy it bulk prices at paint stores too....

 

[jetski9010]

...and the Rice Burners swear by "NOS" octane booster yet it's one of the lowest quality octane boosters out there.

I was reading over BND's site and they don't make a single claim about anything. They give you mixing ratios but don't tell you how much this increases the octane or anything useful. I would think that if you believed in your product, you would want to advertise the capability of it.

Did you ever get your ski on E85 yet?

 

[RoTAxGreNade]

"Got water ???"
E85 is very hygroscopic and using it in marine applications is setting yourself up for trouble - Water will not separate (phase separation) and when you do get water in the fuel your octane rating goes down for starters, just with E10 if you have contamination you can lose up to 3 points of octane. That crap will absorb water from humidity alone and then we use it on ski's that will be operated in a high moisture environment?
Also very hard on rubbers, so your fuel lines will have to be changed but I doubt Mikuni is making any carb kits that will tolerate ethanol so there's your weak link - then you have to jet your carbs for it also.
Not saying it can't be done if you are careful with storage etc but it seem like too much work and worry just to save a few bucks and minimal performance gains..... E10 is bad enough !

 

[jetski9010]

Yea I have herd it all already. Yea ethanol will absorb water but so will gas. If any water get into my tank some how the ethanol can handle it better then gas can. Gas will let it bunch up in pockets where it will hit your motor all at once where as ethanol will spread it out. The additive "dry gas" works like this and uses alcohol to do so.
E85 is 105 octane so I am running 220 psi. I am running a 4mm stroker big bore from Art at jetworks and it hits like a beast. Art setup some dual 38 carbs for me and jetted them for the ethanol. They were pretty close when I got them I think I only had to drop down one jet size on the bottom. I didnt have to change any fuel lines or anything special like that. The rubber that ethanol eats is natural rubber which stopped being put into systems in the early 80's. All I do is sqirt a little oil down my carbs and in the spark plug wholes when I am done at the end of the day and its good to go for next time. You might call that too much work but when I am paying around $3.20 a gallon for 105 octane fuel in CA over $8.00 race gas, I will take the extra 5 mins of work.
But you are right about one thing E10 is crap.

 

[RoTAxGreNade]

Ethanol absorbs water WAY more than gasoline and if you do get water in the mixture you will run lean as hell along with lower octane - I'll take the slug of water and know what happened any day, much easier to unplug your fuel feed line put it in an old coke bottle and pressurize your tank with your mouth on the vent line till clear gas comes out on the beach than having to drain your whole tank.
I've had to do this many times after half sinking my boat in the surf.

Hope you are running full synthetic oil also - ethanol displaces oil and bonds to the metal surfaces in your motor .. not a very good lubricant.

How long have you been running 85? you may not have been running it long enough to see damage to your carb insides and plastics ?
I've run 215 on 93 for many years along with advanced timing with no issues - but I do surf only

 

[jetski9010]

but the amount of water ethanol absorbs into it is still much less then the amount of water that goes down your carbs from getting splashed in. Yes if I sunk my boat that bad I would just drain the fuel and put fresh stuff in there I'm not going to take any chances even if I was running gas.

Yes you have to run an oil that is for alcohol. I choose klotz benol but there are other choices out there.

I have about 50 gal through this motor but I just got this one this season. I have been running my ski's off of this for about 3 years now. If you left it sit in the carbs for a few months it does make the rubber diaphram a little stiff but that was with a ski that I had left set over winter and not flushed out the fuel from the carbs. Like I said it takes me less then 5 mins to do my end of day stuff and now that I have $4500 into my motor setup I would do all this stuff at the end of the day even if I wasnt running ethanol.

Everyone I run into tell's me it's crap and it's going to eat my fuel lines and melt right through my engine block etc. but like I said I have used this for 3 years now and have had good success with it. Makes a great race fuel that's cheaper then 87 gas.

 

[RoTAxGreNade]

Interesting to hear someone out there having good results on corn squeezin's.
I know some of the car guys are running some heavy HP on E85 with proper setup but it's just the water/corrosion and running it on the water thing that kinda scares me.
I had a good conversation with the tech/chemist guy from ACES ( Brian Schubert) before I purchased the ACES iv and diesel stuff a couple weeks ago and walked away with a good lesson on fuels - Now am curious as how the ACES stuff works with E85.