FINALLY got my SJ to start but no power!!!

[severinsen]

Hello all! I'm new to this site, but have been posting for a few months over at PWC today. I posted this and only had a couple responses. I found this site (freakin awesome by the way), so I thought I would give it a shot here. I put the link to the original post at the bottom if anybody would like to see the responses I have received so far. Thanks!!


I really need help with this issue…Thank you all in advance for the replies.

The situation
Hear is the deal. Got a SJ 650…Rode for a while…A friend sunk it and it would not turn so that I could clear all the water…I jumped it off from a car that was turned on (didn’t know it was a no-no at the time)…by the time I figured out it was the starter and replaced it, my engine was seized.

I decided to get a used 701 to replace the 650. I finally got it in and then tried to start it. I had no luck since I had two of the fuel lines mixed up. Switched the fuel lines around and it still wouldn’t start. Yesterday, I put some fuel in the cylinders and it fired right up!!

The Problem
Today, I got it to the canal for a test ride. It fired right up with no priming; however, it had no power on low or high end. It was not revving up high at all…no matter how much throttle I gave it (The rpms would be the same at ¼ throttle as it was at full throttle). After about 20 seconds of full throttle it would, it would die. At first it would fire back up with ease. However, after riding for about 15 minutes, when it would die, it would become increasingly more difficult to start. It got to the point that it would fire loud for a half of a second but then die before it got a chance to run.

When I got it home it would fire again for a half a second and then die…I was worried because I needed to flush it out. So..I put more fuel in the cylinders and it started with ease so that I could flush it (it even revved up high)!

Questions!
Why is there no power? Could it be a fuel delivery problem since it fires up with ease if I prime it and since no matter how much throttle I give it, it will only rev up to a low RPM? At first I though maybe I messed up the CDI when I jumped it off and it wouldn’t let it rev…then when I gave it more fuel, it would flood the engine since it wasn’t revving high. But now since priming makes it start, I am thinking maybe it’s just not getting enough fuel to allow it to rev and that’s why it would die and not start after a while unless I prime it.

Have searched to try to help, but can not find anything specific to my problems. Can you all PLEASE give me some advice, suggestions, and/or some tests to run. I will give my phone number to anybody who would like to call me to discuss this. Also, I live in Pensacola Florida if anybody is near by.

Once again, thank you very much for reading.

http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.php?p=907561&posted=1#post907561

 

[Shonuff]

Before you do any of the next steps, open your electrical box to make sure there is no water sitting in it.

If not:

1. Replace your gas tank check valve.
2. Replace your pulse line.
3. Replace your fuel filters.
4. Rebuild your carb and rejet to the 701.

If none of the above works, start thinking about a new CDI.

 

[severinsen]

I opened my box after I sunk it and there was no water in it.

Where are the fuel filters and the tank check valve? The pulse line seems in good shape.

I was told that I may need to rejet, but A rep at Protec gave me the carb jetting specs and told me that there should not be that much of a difference between what was set for the 650 with the Protec pipe...at least not enough to only allow my RPMs to max out at 2000 (only gestimating by engine sound that's what it was revving to since I obviously dont have a tach). Could he be wrong? Can a novice rebuild a carb and set all the specs without any special tools?

BTW...when I put the spark plugs on the engine block to test for spark, how bright is it supposed to be? I get a spark, but its not VERY bright and almost unnoticable. Could this be causing the problem?

Thanks man!

 

[SUPERTUNE]

Check 2 things, First take the carb completely apart and inspect for water, bad diaphrams, and condition of needle valve assembly. 2nd... pull intake manifold and check reeds and see if damaged from water ingestion.

 

[sflsurfrider]

also, make sure you on/res valve isnt clogged if youre still using it. make sure theres no water in the tank. defintely sounds like carburetion to me.

 

[Mouthfulloflake]

the protec pipe requires different jetting than the stock pipe.

Ive got a protec pipe, I can get you the specs if you need them.

But, I dont think that would stop it from revving up.

your spark should be BLUE, bright, BLUE, and consistant.

unscrew the spark plug boots , the red part around the plug, and test the spark plug "wire" in there, it should be shiny steel and solid, NOT black and crumbly.

trim the wires back 1/4" at a time or so ( as little as possible) to find new fresh wire, and then reinstall the stock plug terminals and boots, or get smoe crimp on ones from the autoparts store and solder them( what I do)

also, try this.

get it running, idling or whatever on the trailer, pump the primer to dump gas down the carb while revving it.

if it starts to rev you have a fuel delivery problem ( not enough getting there)

also, look down the carb through at idle and while revving, and make sure there isnt a steady stream of fuel flowing from the hole in the carb, if the needle seat valve is leaky, it will dribble constantly here, even with the engine off sometimes.

test more, and report back, you CAN fix this.

 

[sjetrider]

Sounds like water in gas to me, and or pulse line issue, is this a 61X 701 or 62T and is it aftermarket or OEM intake mnfld.? Some aftermarket 61X mnflds. have 2 pulselines.

 

[keefer]

Like Supertune said, disassemble the carbs completely and be sure and check the internal fuel basket filter on the fuel pump side of the carb. Also the fuel return line has a built in restrictor in the carb body and it should flow a small amount, be sure and check this for blockage also. The external fuel filter should be between the fuel switch and the carb. It can be replaced with an off the shelf filter from an auto parts house. Use a Purolator F20004 type filter. It looks nearly exactly like the Yamaha stock units but only costs about $3 instead of $15.

Do like sfl said and just bypass the fuel switch and run the line straight from the RES pickup on the fuel tank to the carb if you want to test this first without pulling things apart. Be sure and cap off the ON line at the tank if you do this. :banghead:

Also like sjetrider said, it could be water in the fuel. I pull my fuel tank at least twice a season to drain and sometimes get 4-5 oz of water depending on how much I sub or nose in from stabs.

 

[severinsen]

the protec pipe requires different jetting than the stock pipe. Ive got a protec pipe, I can get you the specs if you need them.But, I dont think that would stop it from revving up..

It was already set because I had the same Protec pipe hooked to my 650. The Protec rep said that by swaping the engins, It shouldn't need to be set again, but go ahead and do so...he did also say that it would not make that huge of an affect on the power. He told me the specs and I re-adjusted the high and low settings (they were way off), but I just tried starting it and it will not do so with out pouring fuel down the cylinders.

I had the Fuel return and fuel inlet lines mixed up when I first tried starting it a couple of days ago. Could this have screwed anything up?

Mouthfulloflake, I would love to perform the test you told me about, but I dont have a primer. Can I just pour the fuel down the carb directly to perform this test? I would love to do this before I spend money rebuilding a carb when I dont need to (just in case it's not a carb problem). I'm going to deal with the spark plug wires when/IF I fix this problem.

• The reeds looked like they were in good shape (they were not chiped or anything)
• I dont have a on/res valve any more and the fuel inlet line is not clogged
• Before i put the tank back in after installing my engine, I dumped all the old fuel so there is no water in the tank
• I have a factory 61X intake manfld and the one pulse line is not clogged. I guess that's all I need to check for (blew in it when it was off).
• The tank was also pressurized when I took the fuel return line off to see if it was clogged.

Also, I still don't know where the external fuel filter is. Is this it? http://216.37.204.203/yamaha_OEM/YamahaPWC.asp?Type=13&A=6&B=1

Thanks again for all the replies...I really hope to get to the bottom of this. I have not rode in about a two months and now have a more powerful engine and just want to get on the water. I will owe you all a big one!

 

[keefer]

Number 28 is the internal fuel filter for the carb on the link you sent.

Number 1 is the external fuel filter on this link.

http://216.37.204.203/yamaha_OEM/YamahaPWC.asp?Type=13&A=6&B=11

Don't spend $15-$20 from Riva, do like I said in an earlier post and by the Purolator 20004 from most any auto parts house for about $3. I have been using them for years and they work great.

 

[severinsen]

Number 28 is the internal fuel filter for the carb on the link you sent.

Number 1 is the external fuel filter on this link.

http://216.37.204.203/yamaha_OEM/YamahaPWC.asp?Type=13&A=6&B=11

Don't spend $15-$20 from Riva, do like I said in an earlier post and by the Purolator 20004 from most any auto parts house for about $3. I have been using them for years and they work great.

Thanks Keefer! The link you sent me was the one I was supposed to post. Could the problem be this simple? When I took off the lines, the fuel would run in and out of the filter with no problem.

 

[keefer]

Your problem is most likely somthing simple, it is just a matter of finding out where your problem is. Troubleshooting is 90% of the fix. From the sound of it, you definately have a fuel delivery problem. I replace the external filters every couple of seasons and go through carbs every so often to keep things up to speed.

Replace the external filter first and move on from there. Pressurize the fuel tank by blowing into the vent line. Fuel should flow freely from the ouput side of the external filter. If not then you have a blockage in the lines or a bad filter. I would replace the filter anyway no matter what, it is probably old as the ski. Once you get fuel flowing freely out of the new filter, test the ski.

If if still wont run then pull the carb and go through it. Get some help if you are not familiar with the internal carb parts. I would start with the fuel pump side and check that internal filter and the return path first. The pump could have a pinhole in one of the diaphrams or a bad check valve. If you are lucky you can clean out the carb and not buy any parts if nothing gets trashed during the tear down and reassembly process. I have torn my carbs down many times and ususally get them back together without needing parts unless I was rejetting or changing configurations.

 

[severinsen]

I will go ahead and replace my filter. I called some auto parts store and at first they could not find the Purolator 20004 so I googled it and got the part of 90915-20004, but that is an oil filter. None can find the fuel filter. Do you know of any other filter that would work other than Yamaha?

• Fuel does flow freely when I blow in the retun of the tank.

Thanks again for the help...I just want to try everything I can before I have to tear apart the carb since I have never even seen inside one (fast learner tho). I would like to perform the test that Mouthfulloflake recommended, but I dont have a pump to prime the carb....this seems like it would be a way to tell if it was a carb problem for sure....seems it is anyway though. If I rejett, does that require buying and parts (re-build kit or anything else) and/or require any special tools?

 

[Mouthfulloflake]

yes you can simply pour some fuel down the carb throat.

also, press the starter several times, then remove the fuel lines at the carb, there should be fuel in the line hooked to "IN"

if fuel is getting there, but NOT getting thru the carb normally, then your filter is likely clogged, or the needle is stuck from old gas sitting in there ( it gets sticky)

you wont need a rebuild kit, if thats all it is.

you can pour carb cleaner in the fuel inlet and gently tap on the carb body near the needle, it will likley free it up.

OR, dissassemble the carb, clean the needle and seat with carb cleaner.

and of course, clean every thing else also.

Ive been thru lots of yamaha single carbs, and RARELY do you need any parts to get them working again, just be careful with the gaskets.

*EDIT* Funny Keefer, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[severinsen]

Thanks Mouthfulloflake. Tested and fuel is getting to the inlet. I guess to pour cleaner in the inlet, I would just pour some down the hose. I'll probably just go ahead and take it apart (I need to learn anyway) to clean it and see if the diaphram is ok. I will probably do this tomorrow morning since I have to work tonight.

I'll re-post first thing. If anybody has any more suggestions, please post 'em.
Thanks

 

[Mouthfulloflake]

hey man...

Im working sat and sunday, if you want to mess with it sunday night, PM me Ill giv you my phone number, and take a carb apart on the phone with you and point to towards what I think are the most likely problems.


it isnt rocket science, its just easier for someone to show you, I will be happy to do it, Im just busy until Sunday night.

 

[Shonuff]

You'll be needing this to guide you disassembly and reassembly..

http://www.mikuni.com/pdf/sbn_rebuild-kit.pdf

 

[Fathom]

I called some auto parts store and at first they could not find the Purolator 20004 so I googled it and got the part of 90915-20004, but that is an oil filter. None can find the fuel filter. Do you know of any other filter that would work other than Yamaha?

Puralator F20004
Deutsch FF409
Fram G4169

All equivs to OEM for fitment and fuel rate.

 

[Mouthfulloflake]

here is the filter I use from wal mart, with my reluctant model.

the filter is like $2.50.

the model is slightly more.

 

[Mouthfulloflake]

hmmm, no pic...