SN VS RN: What does an extra 23hp do?

[Boris]

I'm yet to meet someone who is out of debt, can afford toys and is over two.
Oh, and they almost can pronounce the complicated word "car".

Just from my experience... ancake:

Hi, my name is Robert aka Boris. :biggrin:

RNs can idle for 6 minutes and be crisp on the throttle. ive never seen a SN do that. :Banane13:

You just wait, I'm going to make a video of my own. I'll even have the central heating on for my stunt.
:cheer:

 

[SUPERJET-113]

Leverage.

Yes, they share the same bottom, but that is the extent of it. I am not saying that the SN is bad. I have found that you can throw around the RN hull much easier than the SN. Yes, there are plenty of people who can ride the hell out of their SN. Put them on an equally set RN and I guarantee you they will ride better.

Good post BK. Thats right on in my book. I would say I have some experience with the SN and RN hulls. I rode a SN for 15 years.

I bought a new square nose in May of 1991, serial number 113(still have the hull). Got my first round nose in 2005.

The bottoms may be the same, but its the top that makes it better(and stronger). Metton sucks.

 

[chriselmore_1]

so why is there more leverage? still no answer...................

 

[Rickster]

exactly my point. . my money goes into stuff to help my riding... i havent havent heard any hard facts that convince my to get a roundie

Riding style and how well a ski handles is subjective, so you will never get any 'Hard Facts' to convince you... You need to have ridden them both, with comparable setups in order to make the decision for yourself.

I have them both, I like them both, but the riding styles are completely different, even tho I have tried to make the SN as close to the RN as possible.

what makes the rn better for flatwater?

Although the rear bottom of the SN is the same, the front is not. The SN is slightly broader in the nose which makes it grab a bit more than the RN when railing... It's almost like the RN is a happy medium between a SN and an SXI in handling (yes, I have owned an SXI also)...

This is good in the surf, not so much on flatwater... IMO

The pole mounting area of the SN is heavily angled towards the rear of the ski, and the RN is angled slightly forward of the ski. This gives me more 'torque' (4 lack of better word) on the front of the ski when try any maneuvers.

The bondrail on the SN is 'stepped' when you take off the cap, and the RN is square. The RN is easier to 'widen' and keep a good square footing for hood tricks if that is your 'cup-o-tea'...

The 1"x1" lump in the front of the SN tray reduces the amount of weight that I am able to get onto the nose. Yes you can step on this to partially compensate, but with a RN your foot is solid in the tray and an easier platform to get the weight forward when riding aggressively.

The top of my SN hood is 18" above the bottom of the bondrail, where my WCF hood is 16" above the bottom of the bondrail. This puts the center of gravity higher on the SN and makes it slightly more 'tippy' in the turns.

Note: there are only two aftermarket hood available for the SN that I know of, which is why I compare an after market RN hood to a modified SN hood, and only Blowsion's version was available when I modded my SN.

Add to that the availability of aftermarket hull/pole products for the RN that are just not available for the SN, to me it makes more sense in putting your money into a platform that you are able to more readily change as your riding style changes.

People can argue whether the RN or SN is a better riding ski, and everyone will have their own opinion, but the bottom line is that I have never heard anyone regret moving from a SN to a RN, and usually when these discussions happen, the savings of $$$ is the biggest reason to stay with a SN.

Buy what you want, ride what your comfortable riding...

:kiss:

 

[Big Kahuna]

so why is there more leverage? still no answer...................

location of the pole mount. Shape of the hood. Height of the hood. The ability to get the pole lower when using a lowered bracket and hood.

 

[chriselmore_1]

The pole mounting area of the SN is heavily angled towards the rear of the ski, and the RN is angled slightly forward of the ski. This gives me more 'torque' (4 lack of better word) on the front of the ski when try any maneuvers.

:kiss:

wouldnt the angled bracket make it easier to transfer more down force to the nose with less effort?

 

[Rickster]

wouldnt the angled bracket make it easier to transfer more down force to the nose with less effort?

I'm not an engineer, but I can draw a picture...

:smokin:

Take a torque wrench with a swivel and see how much torque you can get with each of these configurations...

 

[chriselmore_1]

unless your pole was vertical., i dont see how you would be able to get more downforce on the nose easier.(and im not thinkin people ride with their pole plumb) it still looks to me that in the sn diagram that you would be able to put more downforce on the nose, easier, w/ the pole being at less of an angle. (closer to being level than plump)

 

[OCD Solutions]

Wouldn't this be a more accurate depiction?

 

[chriselmore_1]

yea a little exaggerated ...

 

[Rickster]

unless your pole was vertical., i dont see how you would be able to get more downforce on the nose easier.(and im not thinkin people ride with their pole plumb) it still looks to me that in the sn diagram that you would be able to put more downforce on the nose, easier, w/ the pole being at less of an angle. (closer to being level than plump)

I'm not trying to convince you, I know what they both ride like, cause I have them both at the lake side by side and can ride them both.

:smokin:

 

[chriselmore_1]

eventually ill get a rn hull. but right now id rather spend my $ on gas and more brappp till i get better at riding. i was just wondering what the real benefits were besides looks and resale. because i beat the chit outa my skis and by the time i get done with em they wont be worth chit anyways lol

 

[Big Kahuna]

with a SN, it is almost like you are trying to twist the pole if you were going to be doing a roll or a nose stab. You really do not have a leverag point with the bracket on an angle. With the RN when the pole is up, your not so much as twisting and forcing it over. Kinda like the older Seadoo X-4 hulls, the stock steering comes towards you, if you are racing you can not get much leverage on it. with the UMI, the steering is more vertical, you can get leverage on it to hold on to while turning the bouys, you can actually support your weight on it.

 

[Matt_E]

I'm yet to meet someone who is out of debt, can afford toys and is over two.
Oh, and they almost can pronounce the complicated word "car".

Just from my experience... ancake:

Hi. You haven't met me personally, but I assure that I am out of debt, can afford toys, have two paid off vehicles, and provided you don't ask my wife - I am over two.

 

[SUPERJET-113]

Things that make you go Hmmm... :biggrin:

Duck Billed Platypus:



Square nose Superjet:



Bottle nose dolphin:


Round nose Superjet:


Dont get me wrong, I love squares and will always have one around. i won 2 regional IJSBA Amateur freestyle Championships and got invited to the World finals on my square nose in 2000 and 2001(regions 4/9).

For freestyle the SN is ok, but its "duck-billed" platypus front is not the greatest design for diving/twisting/turning in and coming out of the water in a more hydro-dynamic form. This makes the hull react easier and more predictable on stabs, b rolls, bulldogs, power 360, etc...

I always liked the term " more flickability" someone said one time about the rn vs. sn hull..

 

[FolsomShredder]

Any guess on how much HP my ski will generate after my rebuild? I have a ported 61x cylinder, coffman sizzler pipe, 185 comp triton head, stock sbn44 with ocean pro, everything freshly rebuilt

 

[Boris]

The top of my SN hood is 18" above the bottom of the bondrail, where my WCF hood is 16" above the bottom of the bondrail. This puts the center of gravity higher on the SN and makes it slightly more 'tippy' in the turns.

You might want to remeasure that hood height on the SN. Unless you have a 2" block of wood under there, the height should be 16".

Spent quite some time measuring both hulls when I was trying to decide weather it was worth my time and money to "upgrade" to a RN and none of the key measurements were far off. I decided to spend the $2000 that a decent RN hull with a lowered hood, lowered bracket and decent paint job would have cost and instead spent it on a motor.

The bracket being on an angle or flat has little to no difference in side to side torque transfer. A higher pivot point would but all the RN guys get lowered brackets anyway.
Both the RN and SN brackets are rigidly mounted to the hull so how can the angle make a difference ?

 

[Rickster]

You might want to remeasure that hood height on the SN. Unless you have a 2" block of wood under there, the height should be 16".

I am talking about the bottom of the bond line, where the bondline turns and faces straight down, you are talking about the top of the bond line next to the hull.

I measured both my SN, and a Buddy's stock SN sitting right next. both measure the same.

:nana:

Spent quite some time measuring both hulls when I was trying to decide weather it was worth my time and money to "upgrade" to a RN and none of the key measurements were far off. I decided to spend the $2000 that a decent RN hull with a lowered hood, lowered bracket and decent paint job would have cost and instead spent it on a motor.

And I'm sure you are better off for it, based on the kind of riding you do. As I keep saying, I love my SN and that is why I still have it, and also why I spent so much time/money on it to set it up like no other out there...

:flowers1:

The bracket being on an angle or flat has little to no difference in side to side torque transfer. A higher pivot point would but all the RN guys get lowered brackets anyway.
Both the RN and SN brackets are rigidly mounted to the hull so how can the angle make a difference ?

Don't ask me to explain it, but every person out there that has both a SN and a RN will tell you the same thing...

:beerchug:

 

[Boris]

Don't ask me to explain it, but every person out there that has both a SN and a RN will tell you the same thing...

:beerchug:

But I want to know now. :shooter3:




I will tell you all for a fact that the SN is much better than a RN at least in one situation.

When we go out "trimming" mangrove trails after a storm I can knock down much bigger branches with my square than my friend on his girly RN.
He's too worried about scratches in his pretty paint where my SN is a Bull Terrier. That big rubber nudge bar can take some serious knocks and red mangrove just bounces off the mighty SN hood. Not even a scratch or at least none that I notice on my pristine 20 year old paint.

Another instance that my SN is better is when we rail off a half sunken boat.
I can do some serious damage to that thing where he just skims it.
It's that whole "pretty paint" thing again.

:nana::nana::nana:

 

[WILKEY]

Geez a n flip you cats crack me up. :dance::dance::dance: