Custom/Hybrid Negativity

[yamanube]

I think you guys are off base. if you find a guy who's main concern is to treat people right and try to find their niche everyone will jump aboard.

I have not seen 1 person bash Tom21 or his parts. I've also never seen Tom21 screw anyone. I think that is not a coincidence.

I think the biggest mistake up and comers have made recently is over exaggerating their skills and their products before they can prove themselves and burning people before they have a decent client base. Take a look at WDK, he just dropped in with some new innovations and parts that where ahead of what everybody else had out and at a much better price. He didn't seem to get to caught up in what was going on on the boards, kept what he was doing semi-secret, made parts that looked awesome and had people clamering to get his stuff and then excecuted the buisness end terribly. He gets bashed constantly and people are still sending him money. Jeff may seem like a poor example but his parts are EVERYWHERE, he must have been doing something right.

 

[yamaslut]

It is my belief that if you're going to build something to compete with the best products out there, then you shouldn't really be asking for advice on how to build it. You should've done your research already and you should only be gauging interest and possibly be asking for recommendations to make it better. It is also my belief that if you claim results or price prior to building anything, then you're just asking to get ripped on. Ask for advice on how to build a one off for yourself and if it works great then consider selling it for other when you have hard evidence of success.

solid advice, right there....

 

[The Penguin]

i dont think BK's rideplate had ANYTHING to do with the new hull- which leaves your previous statement pointless, regarding the "comments". that was uncalled for. There was a thread in the feedback section for bill and BK- where it belongs. although im sure your intentions were innocent

I'm done talking about Team Bill. I told SuperJETT I would chill. I think WinterX2 and I are going to have some fun in Daytona with BK's rideplate. We are still working out details.

There was talk about some SN hoods. Some blasted saying NOBODY will pay more on a SN hood than what they spent on the entire ski. Others rejected that notion. Tom21 was the wise one to take all the feedback and come to the conclusion that a "hood on a budget" will be the best choice for SN owners.

I think that thread was a perfect example of "constructive criticism"....

Benny

incorrect. You statement contains unnecessary drama. turn your llama in. :bananalama:

WCF said he had Louie's molds and had not seen any demand for those hoods.

I said his price for the hoods was more than I paid for my entire ski (with a trailer, BTW), and that I don't care for Louie's design.

Just the facts, man. :reporter:

:biggrin:

 

[tom21]

To the people doing all the bashing-how many composite parts have you made? Ever think of trying to build a hull? Do you have the time, the room, or the resources to try? I wonder if the very 1st hull Sergio built was the same quality as his products today? Very good points

attention to the fact that alot of us are broke azz beyotches trying to play in a world of big boy toyz. this is why I do it- your welcome:booty:

if some people on the internet keep your from doing what you want to do then you probably don't have much ambition anyway...true

We have to be open for debates
Tell us why and please be articulate when doing so, that way we’ll know is your brain doing the talking and not your arse.

Hate bashing is COMPLETELY different from constructive criticism... If you propose an idea that you think is good and 10 out of 12 people think it won't work or it sucks then you have two choices. You can either try to prove them wrong or you can give in/accept that the idea sucks and go back to the drawing board. and if you ask for input don't get pissed when you don't get the answer you want.

Less talk more action...

I make stuff that I want for me first. cause I need it. I need tubbies, I made em. I don't have a place to put my fire ext- now I do. I can't afford a carbon hood and want to save some weight- bam I made a hood. feet are sore as hell on top from the footholds-problem solved. If other people see things the way I do then I sell parts if not I at least solved my own immediate needs.

Sometimes I am not sure what Iam missing or that I have thought about everything completely. So I talk to my ride group friends or pm somebody or post it for some help or criticism.

I'm just one guy. I repair jetskis and fiberglass is a nice sideline. I try to make unique things and I try to make em affordable. I used to think the big dogs were crazy with their prices. trust me- until you make a mold from scratch you have no idea how much time goes into that "overpriced" part. I am glad that so far quite a few people are using my parts.

It might be stupid but sometimes I think about how cool it is that an average Joe has sent his handmade parts to Canada, France, Australia and Sweden.

I know that there are good builders and I think that alot of them are striving to put something quality out there. I also worry that there are alot of guys thinking they can just make something and suckers will buy it. I hope that after the last epic failure of a glass shop that people will be a little more cautious on who they deal with.

It took me and wavedemon over a year to make the conversion hood. It took me months and months maybe even over a year to make the sxr hoods for the two that sent me hoods to make molds from- and I had promised it would only be weeks! They could not have been more patient with me and I hope the wait was worth it.

I make it my top priority to get my glass done and shipped, sometimes it takes me a few days longer than planned, but for 99% of the stuff I have made they have shipped within days of payment- which is the time it takes to make it. and they get a tracking number. no games or delays. funny thing is of all the stuff I have sold very few have put up "fast shipper" or "delivered as promised" or even a positive on the part if they like it. Yet the feedback thread is overflowing with positives on trivial that is sent back and forth. how do I know what I am doing right or wrong if you don't give feedback? how does anyone else know if I am legit or a crook? and thankyou to those that have put it out there.

I think I have my head on right about it and I really hope that someone coming in is thinking the same way. actually I hope they don't succeed but if you make a better part than me you deserve to be here. if you can do it cheaper than me- I'd like to talk to you about making my parts :dunce:

 

[djkorn1]

There is too much bashing on this site...it is good to give constructive criticism, but we have lost most of the pro riders, most of the aftermarket companies and most of the Freeride organizers off of this site due to flat out bashing.

On the other hand, if something is wrong with a part or company service it should be mentioned....

my 1/2 a cent.

 

[grezzmky]

It is my belief that if you're going to build something to compete with the best products out there, then you shouldn't really be asking for advice on how to build it. You should've done your research already and you should only be gauging interest and possibly be asking for recommendations to make it better. It is also my belief that if you claim results or price prior to building anything, then you're just asking to get ripped on. Ask for advice on how to build a one off for yourself and if it works great then consider selling it for other when you have hard evidence of success.

how ignorant are you people? Gauging interest is what was done and the 'advise' is what was givin. All these people, myself included, did was say "would you like this" and then the bashing begun

 

[grezzmky]

just assume everyone is full of and you will be fine...

:smokin:

HoRRIBLE HORIBLE ADDITUdE! Are you kidding??

 

[tom21]

how ignorant are you people? Gauging interest is what was done and the 'advise' is what was givin. All these people, myself included, did was say "would you like this" and then the bashing begun

from my view it seemed like you wanted to gauge interest and everyone told you there was none or why they would be leary and how that could be fixed.

you got hot and it got ugly quick. next time maybe a poll would be better with a yes or no and ask for no comments to be made??

I don't understand why it got ugly- it was just it was just a question and it was just advice.

 

[grezzmky]

from my view it seemed like you wanted to gauge interest and everyone told you there was none or why they would be leary and how that could be fixed.

you got hot and it got ugly quick. next time maybe a poll would be better with a yes or no and ask for no comments to be made??

I don't understand why it got ugly- it was just it was just a question and it was just advice.

poll good idea. I asked for interest and got told that I couldnt do it. rgat is what happened.

 

[tom21]

lol were we reading the same thread? I didn't take it that way at all. seemed to me you wanted to know if there was interest in a hull and the responses in general seemed to be that not from an unknown, unproven builder and not just a rip of a stock hull. you seemed to be getting upset that people were not saying yes or no and were saying why they would not. I was shaking my head thinking you missed it completely. if you want to sell hulls they are telling you what they want. a modified proven hull. so build a few, beat the snot out of em- let some known or popular riders do the same and if it lives and performs you have a product. this is what you want is to sell some hulls right?

This type of thing doesn't happen overnight. it takes time to become a household name and to build a trusted name.

And I am not attacking you- just trying to explain what I think I read.

 

[kingnothing3]

There is too much bashing on this site...it is good to give constructive criticism, but we have lost most of the pro riders, most of the aftermarket companies and most of the Freeride organizers off of this site due to flat out bashing.

On the other hand, if something is wrong with a part or company service it should be mentioned....

my 1/2 a cent.

x2

Jetskiing has been my favorite hobby for years now. It became my favorite because there was a great community of riders. We all bragged about how helpful other people at freerides were and how great it was to see EVERYONE. But in the last few years Ive gotten sick of the high school like bashing that has gone on.

It is nice to know what we are getting for our $ but I dont want to scroll through 3 pages of senceless bickering to find out how the product atually performed.

some people just cant afford the highend, high quality products, theres nothing wrong with options.

 

[WFO Speedracer]

Not only too much negativity but too many cliques,crews whatever you wish to call theme.People taking up for each either just because they live in the same area or might have ridden with the person once in their life.Everybody here makes mistakes,some are a lot bigger than others.When knowledgeable people make posts trying to help people and end up having to argue with people who have no idea which end of a ski goes in the water first there is a problem.

 

[snowxr]

I threw my hat in the "builder" ring a long time ago, and would say I'm by no means a pro. I love doing it, and creating parts that are useful. The hulls are mostly made for friends, and friends of friends. The cast parts have shipped all over the world. I appreciate all the business, and like Tom21 I think I've got a good handle on what I am doing. My advice to new guys like WinterX2 and Grezzmky is to walk softly, and carry a big stick. Don't say your stuff is the bomb untill it's proven so. Saying your parts are top notch but delivering a POS is the wrong way to do business.

 

[Scorn800]

Hey Gil this thead lacks something? what's you wife keep in her purse? :wave:
It's just the interweb people, if you make junk people are going to type about it? :scratchchin:
If you can't handle it put down the keyboard and go cry:crying:

 

[Winter X2]

I threw my hat in the "builder" ring a long time ago, and would say I'm by no means a pro. I love doing it, and creating parts that are useful. The hulls are mostly made for friends, and friends of friends. The cast parts have shipped all over the world. I appreciate all the business, and like Tom21 I think I've got a good handle on what I am doing. My advice to new guys like WinterX2 and Grezzmky is to walk softly, and carry a big stick. Don't say your stuff is the bomb untill it's proven so. Saying your parts are top notch but delivering a POS is the wrong way to do business.

Snow, I agree.. I am new to the sport. 2 years. re-built a few boats, made some molds with goose and have laid up probably atleast 10 hulls and 6 or so hoods, ride plates, waterboxes etc.. Nobody is perfect and our parts might not be the best U have ever seen.. but we are gonna stand behind them. You break our stuff, you get a new one. Pretty nice warranty. I stuck up for my friend in that crazy thread last night because I see the work and dedication that goes into the molds, and parts. No need to bash.

 

[GIL]

Alot of good replies here. I do agree that talking smack until you can back it up is wrong. It should be a law that you can't sell parts until you have tested them or had them tested. I think giving a pro level surf rider your parts to test and have him post the reslults good or bad would be the best test.

However-I do applaud these guys on trying-they just need to do what was prev posted here-speak softly and carry a big stick and not sell or brag until product is proven.

 

[GIL]

Hey Gil this thead lacks something? what's you wife keep in her purse? :wave:
It's just the interweb people, if you make junk people are going to type about it? :scratchchin:
If you can't handle it put down the keyboard and go cry:crying:

You know the answer to that alredy. lol

 

[Motorheads5]

I Apperciate the desire to want to build the Newest, Coolest, Best, Whatever Part or Hull. But don't ask what someone else think's if you are not ready for some criticism not everyone is going to praise you or like what you are doing. There have been alot of promises made from quite a few wannabe builder's most of the stories are failures. If you are as good as you say you are then the rest will follow. I am not directing this at anyone just saying.

 

[tom21]

its like everyone screamed and got it out of their system. if you still have some leftover rage you need to get rid of I called out a guy on pwc today for splashing a set of footholds and braggin about doing all the work himself.

anyone have an issue with that you can unload here

http://www.pwctoday.com/f26/homemade-footholds-258713.html

 

[steve-uk]

its like everyone screamed and got it out of their system. if you still have some leftover rage you need to get rid of I called out a guy on pwc today for splashing a set of footholds and braggin about doing all the work himself.

anyone have an issue with that you can unload here

http://www.pwctoday.com/f26/homemade-footholds-258713.html

wow that guy was stright into you on that thread - i guess there must be history

in regards to this thread, i think its great that there has been new innovations coming along, like thrust is fairly new (to me anyway), Tom21, Snowxr etc etc.. these guys have come out with great quality products

but on the flip side there have been a few guys who have been burnt by some less than quality products being sold on here, and not in small numbers, but it seems we are not supposed to mention these...

opinions are like a$$holes... everyone has one.. so if your going to ask the question, with it would be "would you buy if... blah blah" or whatever be ready for positive and negative feedback, there is a targeted audience on here so this is probably the best place to do market research on jet ski related parts

not only do you have to expect the opinions but this will give a window into "customer relations" if and when you start making parts, especially if they do meet up to expectations....

i welcome new innovations, i dont welcome peopel who think they have new innovations but dont know how to execute this and produce sub standard parts


.. thats my 2 cents