SuperJet No Spark - No idea

C

ColdFusion

I Am Canadian!
Location
Victoria, BC Canada
Hey All,

I've just gone through a bit of hell on a post here:

http://www.pwcforums.co.uk//forum_posts.asp?TID=28781&PID=236811#236811

Well after all that...I just went to the lake to tune the carbs...ski started o the trailer....sounded like hell as it's super rich right now after some mods (thus the tuning).

Anyways...backed it into the water..took it off the trailer...parked the Jeep....went to go for the first ride....no start....pulled the plugs...no spark..WTF!!!!!!!

I'm going to have a traveling ski mechanic come and check it out....but if anyone has any ideas...plz fire 'em my way.

My electrical diagnosis skills suck...so if anyone says "check the resistence on xyz"...I'll be asking how ;-) ...but I do have a multi-meter...and I'm not afraid to use it....just need help like...put the red probe ABC and the black probe 123 and check the blah blah blah ;-)

Thanks in advance

Cheers
 
cattledog

cattledog

EH TEAM RACING
Location
toronto canada
do you check the 10 amp fuse in e box their is a round knob that you can have unscrew and fuse is their, is it cranking
 
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C

ColdFusion

I Am Canadian!
Location
Victoria, BC Canada
cattledog said:
do you check the 10 amp fuse in e box their is a round knob that you can have unscrew and fuse is their, is it cranking
Click to expand...

Yep...all my initial tests and things folks have suggested are in the thread I gave a link to:

here's a quick run down:

RECENTLY INSTALLED:
-reed stuffers
-RAD lightened flywheel (61x replacing stock 62T)
-61x stator (replacing stock 62T)

PROBLEM:
Ski would suddenly run rough...then cut out while riding. This got worse over the course of 3 rides...ending in a nice long swim in ;-)

Ski would not start..battery fine...cranking over fine...no spark

Ski sat for 2-3 days...then started fine....I suspected water (see other post about funky 5-pin plug in the stator wires running to electrical box that I replaced with bullet connectors).

Opened electrical box...checked and cleaned all connections..all was fine, but water had gotten in. Put it all back together.

Ski was starting fine and had done a few days in a row.

Last thing I checked was the flywheel compartment....found some water...let it dry out for over a day...re-installed cover...this time with liquid gasket to make damn sure it was sealed

Then i went to the lake today...and you know the rest.

I just saw Joe's post (who I got the ski from 3 years ago)....and man does it sound like what's happening to me:
http://www.x-h2o.com/threads/38980

Cheers
 
ger87410

ger87410

How did I get here?
Location
Fort Worth
D-Roc said:
try unplugging the black and white stop button wires. you will have to plug it back in to shut the ski off if it fires.
Click to expand...

My understanding is the stop switch is a NC (normally closed) switch.

Wouldn't unplugging the NC switch cause it not to work?
 
tom21

tom21

havin fun
Location
clearwater FL
no, just do what he said but be aware if you want to shut it off the stop button wont work.

the reason why is the stop/lanyard button has two functions, one is it is a stop switch. the other is the lanyard function. when you push the button is makes a ground to the ignition. if you pull the lanyard it makes a ground. if the internals are corroded it can be making a ground so by unplugging the black/ white plug you eliminate a possible problem.

If it doesn't make sense then unplug it and set your meter to continuity, when you touch the red and black together it should read open. Now put red on white wire and black on black- with the lanyard on it should have no reading(open), push the button- now it reads. pull the lanyard- now it makes a connection get it?

class dismissed...
 
tom21

tom21

havin fun
Location
clearwater FL
okay after reading your post if you want to perform a pressure test, get a sheet of rubber maybe an 1/8 inch thick from the hardware store and cut out a gasket to fit under the carbs and somewhere on the exhaust mani, using the stock gaskets for templates. get a bike pump with a gauge and install it where the pulse line from the carb goes to the block. 10psi for 5 minutes. if it doesn't hold spray some soapy water at all the gasket sealing areas to show you where it leaks. did I mention to reinstall the parts to seal the rubber?

my guess is that somewhere in the installation or the reeds you missed some gasket maybe or didn't tighten something?
 
tom21

tom21

havin fun
Location
clearwater FL
last thing is if you have spark and it goes away then comes back, you have a bad ground somewhere. main batter cable, or from the stator to the cdi is the best place to start. I can't type all that is necessary to check that right now.

but this does describe the problem correct?
 
C

ColdFusion

I Am Canadian!
Location
Victoria, BC Canada
tom21 said:
no, just do what he said but be aware if you want to shut it off the stop button wont work.

the reason why is the stop/lanyard button has two functions, one is it is a stop switch. the other is the lanyard function. when you push the button is makes a ground to the ignition. if you pull the lanyard it makes a ground. if the internals are corroded it can be making a ground so by unplugging the black/ white plug you eliminate a possible problem.

If it doesn't make sense then unplug it and set your meter to continuity, when you touch the red and black together it should read open. Now put red on white wire and black on black- with the lanyard on it should have no reading(open), push the button- now it reads. pull the lanyard- now it makes a connection get it?

class dismissed...
Click to expand...

Thanks Tom....I really appreciate the "class". I've learned a hell of a lot from forums over my 6-7 years of riding/wrenching....electrical is the last part that I really have trouble with....so great to get the step-by-step along with the "why"....and the "why" is what I need....then I actually learn something vs. just doing what I'm told ;-)

I think I get what you're laying down....just not 100% sure I know which setting on the multi-meter is continuity...but probably obvious when I can look at the dial later ;-)

Cheers
 
C

ColdFusion

I Am Canadian!
Location
Victoria, BC Canada
tom21 said:
okay after reading your post if you want to perform a pressure test, get a sheet of rubber maybe an 1/8 inch thick from the hardware store and cut out a gasket to fit under the carbs and somewhere on the exhaust mani, using the stock gaskets for templates. get a bike pump with a gauge and install it where the pulse line from the carb goes to the block. 10psi for 5 minutes. if it doesn't hold spray some soapy water at all the gasket sealing areas to show you where it leaks. did I mention to reinstall the parts to seal the rubber?

my guess is that somewhere in the installation or the reeds you missed some gasket maybe or didn't tighten something?
Click to expand...

Excellent....thanks again Tom....I'll be doing this once I get it started again and can see if I still have a lean condition!!
 
C

ColdFusion

I Am Canadian!
Location
Victoria, BC Canada
tom21 said:
last thing is if you have spark and it goes away then comes back, you have a bad ground somewhere. main batter cable, or from the stator to the cdi is the best place to start. I can't type all that is necessary to check that right now.

but this does describe the problem correct?
Click to expand...

No worries on the typing.....having a place to start is what matters to me right now ;-)


....and yes...that does describe the problem exactly.

I rationally thought this was a water in the electrics issue because of how it wouldn't work....then after a few days it would....naturally I thought something that got wet dried out.

Now I know that electrical can be intermittent as well!!

Cheers
 
ger87410

ger87410

How did I get here?
Location
Fort Worth
tom21 said:
no, just do what he said but be aware if you want to shut it off the stop button wont work.

the reason why is the stop/lanyard button has two functions, one is it is a stop switch. the other is the lanyard function. when you push the button is makes a ground to the ignition. if you pull the lanyard it makes a ground. if the internals are corroded it can be making a ground so by unplugging the black/ white plug you eliminate a possible problem.

If it doesn't make sense then unplug it and set your meter to continuity, when you touch the red and black together it should read open. Now put red on white wire and black on black- with the lanyard on it should have no reading(open), push the button- now it reads. pull the lanyard- now it makes a connection get it?

class dismissed...
Click to expand...

I'm not paying for this class!!! :twak:

Thanks for the insight.
 
C

ColdFusion

I Am Canadian!
Location
Victoria, BC Canada
Solved I hope??

UPDATE:

So after all this back and forth I forgot to actually read the shop manual!!

I took a look and of course found pictures..I like pictures....

On page 7-6 it shows how to test charge and pulser coil resistance....with pic on where to put the probes. So I tested at the stator side of the bullet connectors as the pics show.

The pulser coil reads 14.6 ohms....right in the middle of the suggested range of 12.6-15.4..this is good.

The charge coil reads 1. no matter what setting I use....the decimal point just moves. The manual says 497.7-608.3 ohms. So I'm guessing the charge coil is shot?

Thoughts?

I figure swap back to stock stator/flywheel and that will prove it
 
chrisdoc0608

chrisdoc0608

insulting
Location
rocky mount, nc
if you still have your old 62t stator and flywheel install it and see if that solves your problem, if yes then its your charge coil for sure as it sends a charge to the cdi. also those ohm readings are not always good indicators, reed this http://x-h2o.com/showthread.php?t=37800

there is LOTS of good info in the tech faq section of the fourm, check it out in your spare time.
 
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C

ColdFusion

I Am Canadian!
Location
Victoria, BC Canada
SOLVED (for now)

chrisdoc0608 said:
if you still have your old 62t stator and flywheel install it and see if that solves your problem, if yes then its your charge coil for sure as it sends a charge to the cdi. also those ohm readings are not always good indicators, reed this http://x-h2o.com/showthread.php?t=37800

there is LOTS of good info in the tech faq section of the fourm, check it out in your spare time.
Click to expand...

Thanks Chris,

I'll give that a read.

I put the 6sT stator/flywheel back in and that solved it.

The crappy part is now that the 61X stator is out of the ski it gets a reading of 350 ohms. Now I understand that the resistance readings should be the same whether it's 62T or 61X.....the only real difference is the physical size of the stators. If that's true, even though I'm getting a reading, it's still way below the range it should be in.

BTW....how does a bunch of stacked metal plates wrapped in copper wire fail??

Thanks again to all that replied....guess I should learn to RTFM first next time eh ;-)

Cheers
 
C

ColdFusion

I Am Canadian!
Location
Victoria, BC Canada
Mouthfulloflake said:
the 'shellac" or varnish used to keep the copper windings from touching each other deteriorate, and the copper winding becomes effectively shorter...
Click to expand...


Ahhh....and here I was thinking that all that wound copper wire was supposed to be touching.

Makes total sense now!!

Thanks Mouth!!

Cheers
 
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