Help with primer

[BennyB]

I have an old 440 that cranks forever (a couple minutes of on and off) before it slowly rumbles to life. Once it's running, it continues to run great. If I pour some premix straight down the carb it fires right up. I figured a quick fix would be to just install a primer and squirt some fuel straight into the carb every time to help it start faster. I Tee'd into the reserve pickup line coming from the tank (red hose in the picture) and ran that to a piston primer. For some reason I cannot get it to pull any fuel from the line. I pulled the hose off the piston primer and gave it a quick suck to see if fuel flowed freely and it did. I grabbed a known working piston primer and tried it with the same no fuel result.

I've installed primers before and had no problems but I'm stumped here. I'm using a quality made in USA piston primer, not Chinese. And a working primer from another ski still didn't make a difference. Does anyone know of something obvious I'm missing here?

 

[spinyard]

Honestly it’s pretty simple , you must not have any fuel in your return line or air… maybe try to put the “pull” line in a can of gas and see if it pumps, that would rule out the primer

 

[JC-SuperJet]

Looks like the Hoses are attached to the correct Nipples: Attach supply line to angled port. Straight port routes to Carburetor.

However, if the Fuel Cock Valve is set to the "ON" position, then NO fuel will be allowed into the RESERVE line. That's how it's supposed to work.

If the Fuel Cock Valve is set to RES, then Fuel will be allowed into the Reserve Line. Then the Primer can draw fuel and pump into the Carburetor.

Can also tap into the RETURN line...

 

[aboarder]

Looks like the Hoses are attached to the correct Nipples: Attach supply line to angled port. Straight port routes to Carburetor.

However, if the Fuel Cock Valve is set to the "ON" position, then NO fuel will be allowed into the RESERVE line. That's how it's supposed to work.

If the Fuel Cock Valve is set to RES, then Fuel will be allowed into the Reserve Line. Then the Primer can draw fuel and pump into the Carburetor.

Can also tap into the RETURN line...

The lines are free to pull from the tank anywhere before the cock. They just can't feed the main line between carb and cock if that line is turned off. Don't tap into the return line. That will just suck air from the top of the fuel tank. The reserve line is correct.

As spinyard said, put the red line into a container of fuel and see if it will suck. If it doesn't, swap the nipples that the red and blue are on at the primer and see if that works. It looks like they're hooked up properly though.

 

[BennyB]

maybe try to put the “pull” line in a can of gas and see if it pumps, that would rule out the primer

Thanks, just tried this and it pulls strong from a jar of fuel

If the Fuel Cock Valve is set to RES, then Fuel will be allowed into the Reserve Line. Then the Primer can draw fuel and pump into the Carburetor.

Yeah I had tried it with the selector set to reserve and didn't help. Even sucked on the end of the tube to make sure fuel was flowing through the line and got a mouthful of gas with very little effort.

The lines are free to pull from the tank anywhere before the cock. They just can't feed the main line between carb and cock if that line is turned off. Don't tap into the return line. That will just suck air from the top of the fuel tank. The reserve line is correct.

As spinyard said, put the red line into a container of fuel and see if it will suck. If it doesn't, swap the nipples that the red and blue are on at the primer and see if that works. It looks like they're hooked up properly though.

When I pulled the red line to drop it in a jar or fuel it started spraying out of the tee because the tank had pressurized sitting in the sun. I put the line back on while it was spraying and was able to pump some fuel through the red line until it stopped. When I pulled it off again, fuel started spraying again. I repeated this process a few times and then started the ski from the reserve line. I noticed once the ski was running you could see a good amount of fuel running through the inline filter. I'm wondering if this inline filter in front of the tee to the primer might be causing my issue.

 

[BennyB]

I'm going to try switching the positions of the primer tee and inline filter and see if that makes a difference

 

[BennyB]

Well that made no difference, still can barely pull any fuel. Dropped the primer pickup line directly into the gas tank and pulls tons of fuel. I'm still stumped. Anyone know of a good way to plumb these directly into the fuel tank?

 

[blackkstar]

Primer in the return line can be a pain, the fuel can dump out of the line and you pump and just suck air. It could also be a small leak somewhere in the return line. It's not really under pressure when the fuel is returning to the tank, but when you are using the primer you are adding vacuum which would make a small leak much bigger.

 

[holygoat]

Primer in the return line can be a pain, the fuel can dump out of the line and you pump and just suck air. It could also be a small leak somewhere in the return line. It's not really under pressure when the fuel is returning to the tank, but when you are using the primer you are adding vacuum which would make a small leak much bigger.

Primer in the return line saves your motor. If your primer leaks and you suck air you could melt down your engine.

 

[WFO Speedracer]

Primer in the return line can be a pain, the fuel can dump out of the line and you pump and just suck air. It could also be a small leak somewhere in the return line. It's not really under pressure when the fuel is returning to the tank, but when you are using the primer you are adding vacuum which would make a small leak much bigger.

Not if it's done correctly , let the return line dip down to create a low spot , put the tee at the bottom of the low spot , there will always be fuel there.

 

[BennyB]

So I didn't use the return line, I used the reserve line. The ski runs fine on the Reserve and ON settings at the fuel selector switch so I don't think there's an obvious leak in the Reserve line. The primer itself has been thoroughly tested and works great but for some reason won't pull fuel when Tee'd into the reserve line. Maybe instead of cutting into all the fuel lines I should figure out why this takes so long to start in the first place... Just figured it's a 44 year old jetski so whatever it just cranks for a couple minutes, might as well put a primer in to help it along

 

[WFO Speedracer]

So I didn't use the return line, I used the reserve line. The ski runs fine on the Reserve and ON settings at the fuel selector switch so I don't think there's an obvious leak in the Reserve line. The primer itself has been thoroughly tested and works great but for some reason won't pull fuel when Tee'd into the reserve line. Maybe instead of cutting into all the fuel lines I should figure out why this takes so long to start in the first place... Just figured it's a 44 year old jetski so whatever it just cranks for a couple minutes, might as well put a primer in to help it along

Ok I will try to explain this simply one more time , you know that bit of a hesitation you get when you switch from on to reserve, that is the time it takes for the carb to pull fuel through the reserve line , unless you are running on reserve the line does not stay primed , this is why no one tees into the reserve line , as Carl says :

aint got no gas in it clip - Search Videos

www.bing.com

Sometimes when people tell you not to go down a certain road , it's not because they don't want you to see where it leads , it's because it's a bad road .

 

[BennyB]

Ok I will try to explain this simply one more time , you know that bit of a hesitation you get when you switch from on to reserve, that is the time it takes for the carb to pull fuel through the reserve line , unless you are running on reserve the line does not stay primed , this is why no one tees into the reserve line , as Carl says :

aint got no gas in it clip - Search Videos

www.bing.com

Sometimes when people tell you not to go down a certain road , it's not because they don't want you to see where it leads , it's because it's a bad road .

Thanks for the thorough explanation, I understand what you're saying. During all of my troubleshooting the other day, I ran the ski on the reserve line and the primer still will not pull fuel while running or immediately after turning off. At that point I know the reserve line is filled with fuel. I've also sucked the fuel through the 1/8" primer line all the way to the primer and attached to the primer with the line full. Primer will pull up the fuel from the 1/8" primer line and then not from the reserve line. This is with the fuel selector set to reserve and the reserve line primed, full of fuel.

I couldn't find the fittings I need locally where I'm at so I ordered what I need to try a new configuration and should have it next week. I'll try Teeing into the return line and see if that works...

 

[BennyB]

Well I got it hooked into the return line and there was fuel immediately available for it to pull, thanks @WFO Speedracer . This was strange, I've used the reserve line before and not had problems but oh well.

However, after using the ski, there was no fuel in the return line the next time and the primer just sucked air... This was the case twice now, the primer only worked the first time after I hooked it up. Oh well, probably just leave this one be at least for now, summer's too short

 

[WFO Speedracer]

One more time , you have to create a low spot in the return line , in other words the return line has to dip down below the tank , fuel cannot and will not gravity feed uphill , therefore fuel will always be in the return line at that low spot .

Wneh I say a low spot I mean a low spot , several inches below the fuel tank , the lower the return line is held the more fuel will be in it .

 

[BennyB]

One more time , you have to create a low spot in the return line , in other words the return line has to dip down below the tank , fuel cannot and will not gravity feed uphill , therefore fuel will always be in the return line at that low spot .

Wneh I say a low spot I mean a low spot , several inches below the fuel tank , the lower the return line is held the more fuel will be in it .

Yeah for sure. It drops down from the carb down to a few inches below the tank and that low spot in the line is where I Tee'd into

 

[WFO Speedracer]

I have done dozens of these , never any issues like you are having , at worse you might need to crank the ski over a few times , then there will be gas there, to me it sounds like maybe your lines are sucking air in somewhere.

I don't think this is actually a primer issue that you are dealing with .

 

[BennyB]

I have done dozens of these , never any issues like you are having , at worse you might need to crank the ski over a few times , then there will be gas there, to me it sounds like maybe your lines are sucking air in somewhere.

I don't think this is actually a primer issue that you are dealing with .

Thanks for the insight, yeah this thing probably has a few problems that need to be worked out. Once started it runs fine and my youngest daughter prefers to ride this 440 over our other skis so I think I'm at the point in my season that I'll just leave it as good enough for now and give it a thorough going through over the winter. Probably only 5-6 weeks left of our riding season here and I'll need something to do in Dec/Jan when it getting dark at 4:30 haha

 

[E350]

Just a thought.

I disconnect and bypass all of the On-Reserve-Off fuel lines in our skis. And just leave the selector switch there but non-functional.
I also install an internal fill. Because it allows me to look directly into the tank. Which can be helpful for many things including when filling it.

I like the Blowsion internal fill for the Super Jets.

But WaxRacingProducts.com has a great internal fill for the 550. It has three ports: One port which goes into the carb; One port which can be used for the Reserve; and One port which just dumps back into the tank for the return line from carb.

The one port for the Reserve, I just use for my primers. That way there is always fuel in the primer line, and if the primer line leaks, it will NOT introduce any air into the engine.

Works fine for me.






@waxhead

 

[waxhead]

Love it. That's a great Idea