FX-1 How much glass?

[Joker]

I just defoamed my tray and am in the process of putting the 140 pump into my fx1. I need to order some glass/carbon and wondering how many yards I am going to need to do the tray and have some left over to reinforce the pump area.

I will be ordering from us composites.

 

[yldsix]

I used 10 metres for shortened, rockered , hood lowered , tray widened so maybe about 5 metres .

 

[Joker]

Woven, biax, twill, chop strand?

 

[txsuperjetfreak96]

I did 2 layers of 12oz biax and 1 layer of 6oz cf twill no flex anywhere


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[special fx]

I would go with at least 3 layers of 1208. Get 3 yards and if there's spare, you'll use it on something sooner or later. Chopped mat is handy too for build-up around pump tunnel for pump mod. You might want to grab a yard of that too.

 

[Joker]

Okay are there different weights of 1208 or is 1208 a specific weight?

 

[txsuperjetfreak96]

1208 is 12oz biax


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Joker]

Okay thanks guys

 

[Vumad]

I don't use chop glass for anything but making a mold. Biax is much stronger. I haven't used chop for anything since I started using Biax. Chop resists impact, woven resist sheer, biax resists both. Several thinner layers is stronger than one thicker layer.

Using 3 layers of 1 biax, 1 woven, 1 biax, will be stronger than 3 layers of biax. Woven is a 0*/90* weave, while biax is a 45* weave/chop. The sandwich combination of directions will make it stronger than only using one direction. The biax may come in 0/90 weave/chop but I am not sure.

 

[Idok]

listen to az-old-as-he-is

 

[davy87nj]

would 3 layers be sufficient for running straps and useing the blowsion style mounting for the straps? This is a dilemma im in right now as Im about to refoam and reglass my SN tray. I see how thick the stock tray was that I had straps in, and Im not sure if 3 layers of 12oz would be as strong or as thick? maybe just do the washer with acorn nut deal?

Also, any ideas on the best way to fill a hole in the side of the hull, about 1 and 1/2 inches wide by 3 inches long? Almost would be like filling a side exhaust hole, its basically in the same position.

 

[Vumad]

Also, any ideas on the best way to fill a hole in the side of the hull, about 1 and 1/2 inches wide by 3 inches long? Almost would be like filling a side exhaust hole, its basically in the same position.

I would prep the inside and out to bare fiberglass with about 3" of overlap on the front/back and 2" on top/bottom. Prep with acetone. Cover the outside with packing tape (good stuff that doesn't rip easily) making sure it is very taught. Cut a few pieces of 1208 or 1708 of they fill the hole, and a last layer that covers the hole with the amount of overlap you prepped. Lay your epoxy and glass and let dry. Remove tape, sand the new glass you can see from the outside so it has no shine. Wipe on some filler (cab-o-sil/microspheres mixed with epoxy) so it is flush, then lay one more piece of glass on the outside the same size as what you did on the inside (you could skip this step but the sandwich is much stronger than not). Feather the new glass into the old glass (this is why you did so much over lay, you will lose about 1" on every side to feather it in). blend in with the epoxy filler mentioned earlier. Once it's almost there, finish with bondo. You want to do 99% of the work with epoxy/glass based filler since bondo isn't approved for water use. The bondo is only for filling the holes that the microspheres leave. The bondo you use should be absolutely minimal and you should only be seeing a few specs of bondo in the pin holes causes by the microspheres.

Edit: Always sand to bare glass, clean and wipe with Acetone, and let dry before laying your glass. Glass bonds to glass/SMC a few hundred times stronger than gelcoat to SMC, so sand off the gelcoat and glass to the SMC.

 

[davy87nj]

This is the hole I'm talking about. It was repaired before I got this hull and was probably ok, but I got a little happy with the sander while prepping for reinforcement and felt like I needed to redo this.

When you say bring it down to bare fiberglass Im alittle confused(probably do to my inexperience). Do you mean just take the gelcoat/paint off? because you could keep grinding on this until it breaks through with no difference(not so much like a raider I have when the gelcoat chips off you can see fresh glass). Its sanded down much better now, this pic is right after I removed the old repair job. Also feathering the glass, not sure what that means. Im thinking it means pulling the edges of the cloth out a little so its just not a big step up to the cloth, if that makes sense? Thanks alot for the info, its much appreciated.

 

[Vumad]

would 3 layers be sufficient for running straps and useing the blowsion style mounting for the straps? This is a dilemma im in right now as Im about to refoam and reglass my SN tray. I see how thick the stock tray was that I had straps in, and Im not sure if 3 layers of 12oz would be as strong or as thick? maybe just do the washer with acorn nut deal?

I haven't done my tray yet so I can't help you with how to secure your straps. I have been looking for a reasonable way to put in hull inserts. I was looking into Stainless Tee nuts that you can get at Ace. They are only a buck or 2 each, made of stainless. I am not sure what stainless but I am going to assume it is 304 stainless.

The Tees come in a flush finish and with raised spikes. I was going to give the raised spikes one a try for holding in my waterbox and fuel tank when I get to that. Unfortuneatly, I haven't go there yet so I can't tell you for sure it it will work. It would also require you to be able to work on the tray from the inside, so that would work if you cut out your tray and then glassed it back in, but if you plan to just lay glass over the foam, you wont be able to use the Tee screws i plan to use on my stuff.



It's not a question if 3 layers of glass will be enough. The question is how many layers of what weight. I just built my X2 hood out of 3 layers - 1 1708 biax, 1 24oz weave, 1 1708 biax. It's built like a brick house because it has to support my weight.

3 layers is good. The question is of what cloth. If you are going to be riding the lake with padding, 3 layers of 1208 would probably be just fine. However, the tray is flat, no curve to give it strength, so 3 of 1208 may not be enough for hard abuse. 3 layers of 1708, or the sandwich 1708/24/1708 I did my hood out of may be better if you are taking some huge landings in the surf.

Ultimately, it is hard to determine how strong it is going to be when it is done. I haven't seen any magic equasions to determine how much of how many layers you should use. I have limited experience. I just tell Pat at fiberglass coatings in St. Pete what I am doing and he tells me how much of what kind of glass I should use for the job. Everything I have stated is based off what he has taught me in my limited projects. I haven't broken anything yet, but my stuff may be heavier than necessary.

 

[Vumad]

View attachment 205842
This is the hole I'm talking about. It was repaired before I got this hull and was probably ok, but I got a little happy with the sander while prepping for reinforcement and felt like I needed to redo this.

When you say bring it down to bare fiberglass Im alittle confused(probably do to my inexperience). Do you mean just take the gelcoat/paint off? because you could keep grinding on this until it breaks through with no difference(not so much like a raider I have when the gelcoat chips off you can see fresh glass). Its sanded down much better now, this pic is right after I removed the old repair job. Also feathering the glass, not sure what that means. Im thinking it means pulling the edges of the cloth out a little so its just not a big step up to the cloth, if that makes sense? Thanks alot for the info, its much appreciated.

That is a pretty knarly hole. Much more than filling in a clean hole in the flat side of the hull like a front exhaust would leave.

When you say bring it down to bare fiberglass Im alittle confused(probably do to my inexperience). Do you mean just take the gelcoat/paint off?

Yes, hand sand off the paint and gelcoat. You want to always glass directly to the SMC. The gelcoat doesn't bond anywhere near as strong to the SMC as the epoxy glass will. Prep to make sure it's epoxy to SMC, not epoxy to paint/gelcoat.

Also feathering the glass, not sure what that means. Im thinking it means pulling the edges of the cloth out a little so its just not a big step up to the cloth, if that makes sense?

Do not pull on the fibers. Leave them in the weave they are made in the best you can. Never manipulate the weave more than needed to move a bend or curve.

You lay up more glass than you need, so you can sand into the glass. Say you need 2" of glass, so layup 3" and sand down into the last inch you don't need for strength. That way, you will have your 2" of strong glass and 1" of glass you sanded at an angle, 3" total (that 1" you sanded into lost most of it's strength). You could just do 2" of glass and then blend away the lip of the glass with filler, but filler over sanded glass will be less likely to break than filler alone.

It doesn't really matter if you lay extra glass to sand into, use all body filler to blend, or some other method, as long as you don't sand into your repair, you're good. Just don't leave any glass fiber exposed or sand into the fibers you need for strength.


Lastly, sand down those rough edges. Don't use the grinder. Do it by hand. Just smooth those jagged edges.

 

[davy87nj]

yeah your right, probably a worse hole than I described. Thanks for the info. Im gonna give it hell and see what happens.

 

[Vumad]

Good luck. That tape trick might not work for that hole. It's big, irregular and wraps to the bottom. Just be careful not to end up filling it up with all resin and no glass. The tape trick works well on small flat openings, which that is not.

 

[davy87nj]

Good luck. That tape trick might not work for that hole. It's big, irregular and wraps to the bottom. Just be careful not to end up filling it up with all resin and no glass. The tape trick works well on small flat openings, which that is not.

Thanks that seems to be how it was before I removed the old repair.

 

[Joker]

Okay so update on the situation. I found a good deal on an fx1 wide tray made by tom21 ($90 shipped). This takes pretty much all of the work out for me. Now how much 1208 do you think I'm going to need to put this tray in, a set of footholds and reinforce the pump area?

 

[ridburton06]

im curious also. ill be doing the same thing on my fx1 real soon. you using 1208 for the pump area?

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2