FX-1 Hard time tuning 61X with single 44

PowersportComposites

PowersportComposites

Location
Fort myers
I just finished the pump conversion in my FX1 and at the same time I added a B pipe with true FX1 chamber, carbon reeds, and a ProTec rec head (non girdled o ring head)
Here was my issue....
I am jetted at 120 low and 145 high as per JetManiacs recommendation. Started at 2 turns out on both. Started tinkering, took the top in a little bit, and the low in a little, and eventually got it dialed in pretty nicely. Did a plug read, and they were a nice kinda dark brown color but my buddy said they looked a little dry. Well, that was the beginning of the end. Took the top out 1/8.....terrible. Back in 1/4....terrible. Back out 1/8 (where it was pretty nice....terrible! New plugs to get better reads....all of a sudden one plug seems to be getting water in the cylinder, because it was just totally washed clean everytime we tried to use it. Plug was firing, and that cylinder was definitely running. Pisser stream was strong though.
Also it popped 152/152 on friends guage. It was showing 180/180 on mine yesterday. Loaded up and headed home.....havent touched it for the rest of the day. I plan to re check the torque on the head bolts (I torqued to 22 ft/lbs). If the torque all seems good I will pull the head I guess and check the o rings, even though they only have like an hour on them, it seems that one is leaking a bit...
Thoughts?
 
PowersportComposites

PowersportComposites

Location
Fort myers
IMAG1098.jpg

IMAG1097.jpg

Plenty of water in there...O rings seemed ok though. I am suspicious of water coming in through the exhaust system. I noticed one of the three bolts on the head pipe was loose. Hoping that was the issue,
 
Nuklear6

Nuklear6

I Dream 10' Surf!
Location
Bordentown, NJ by week / Brigantine, NJ by weekend
Very hard to see from the pics but the deck surface on your cylinder looks rough. Maybe it is the pics, or maybe it is pieces of old gasket you didn't get cleaned off, or maybe the surfance is rough. If it is the surface you may need to have the surface cleaned up in the mill or switch back to a gasket head. O ring heads are more particular of the deck surface then are gasket heads.
 
ntrsspray

ntrsspray

I do DUMB THINGS!!
Location
jersey
Nuklear6 said:
Very hard to see from the pics but the deck surface on your cylinder looks rough. Maybe it is the pics, or maybe it is pieces of old gasket you didn't get cleaned off, or maybe the surfance is rough. If it is the surface you may need to have the surface cleaned up in the mill or switch back to a gasket head. O ring heads are more particular of the deck surface then are gasket heads.
Click to expand...

^ what he said. Looks a bit rough


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PowersportComposites

PowersportComposites

Location
Fort myers
I cleaned it up nicely with a razor blade and installed new o rings. I'm suspicious of all exhaust gaskets at the moment though even though they are brand new. Another test tomorrow. Fingers crossed
 
Nuklear6

Nuklear6

I Dream 10' Surf!
Location
Bordentown, NJ by week / Brigantine, NJ by weekend
PowersportComposites said:
Rode again today. Perfect for 30 mins. Then water in the cylinders again. Exhaust gaskets are new and I replaces the o rings last night. Please help!
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i know you dont want to hear this but either the head or the deck surface isnt true. Have seen someone else fight this same problem and have also had it happen myself. Gotta get a good metal straight edge out and use it to see whether its the head or the cylinder deck surface. Move your straight edge around at different angles to make sure the casting and sleeves are also true to one another. If you can get a .003 :):):):):):) gauge under the straight edge anywhere you have found your problem. If you were looking to just keep riding you could prob go back to the stock head with a new gasket and most likely be fine.
 
PowersportComposites

PowersportComposites

Location
Fort myers
Motor ran fantastic in stock form, so I'd guess if anything isn't "true" it is the pro Tec head. If I try the stock head and all is well, then I could just have a machine shop make the protec true right?

Thanks for the response nuklear
 
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PowersportComposites

PowersportComposites

Location
Fort myers
^right but as it ran fine on the stock head a few days ago more than likely the cylinder is true and its either the pro tec head or a leak thru the exhaust somewhere. I added head and swapped exhaust at the same time
 
Nuklear6

Nuklear6

I Dream 10' Surf!
Location
Bordentown, NJ by week / Brigantine, NJ by weekend
Exhaust gaskets are not to blame for the condition your experiencing. Chance are it is the head that is not true. However just because the deck surface held compression with the stock head and GASKET doesnt mean it is true enough for an o ring head. So you should def check both the deck surface and your protec head. As far as fixing the protec head it would take way more work /cost then its worth. If the head is cut to true it the oring grooves and combustion chambers will have to be re-cut after, that all is a lengthy process even for a good machinist.
 
JetManiac

JetManiac

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orlando
Nuklear6 said:
Exhaust gaskets are not to blame for the condition your experiencing. Chance are it is the head that is not true. However just because the deck surface held compression with the stock head and GASKET doesnt mean it is true enough for an o ring head. So you should def check both the deck surface and your protec head. As far as fixing the protec head it would take way more work /cost then its worth. If the head is cut to true it the oring grooves and combustion chambers will have to be re-cut after, that all is a lengthy process even for a good machinist.
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"However just because the deck surface held compression with the stock head and GASKET doesnt mean it is true enough for an o ring head."

Listen to what nuclear is telling you. The oem head gaskets are very forgiving, they have thick fiber coated with heat sensitive adhesive that is very effective at sealing even crappy condition cylinders and heads. Just because your cylinder didnt leak with oem head and gasket doesnt mean it is in good condition.

The top of your cylinder may not be true enough for an oringed head to seal against.
Also check the sleeve height compared to the cast cylinder height. It is possible for a sleeve to drop a little, making sealing impossible.
 
WFO Speedracer

WFO Speedracer

A lifetime ban is like a lifetime warranty !
Location
Alabama
Its easy enough to find out, pull the cylinder, find a piece of glass , use prussian blue dye on the deck surface and the head surface, then lap them in on the piece of glass with valve lapping compound using a figure 8 pattern, the problem areas will show up pretty quickly as high or low spots on the cylinder deck surface or the head, at that point you can decide how to proceed with proper repairs.
 
PowersportComposites

PowersportComposites

Location
Fort myers
Update: the head is not the issue. Checked it for "flatness" (not sure what the correct term is) and its straight. Ditched the o rings and ran the head with a stock brand new head gasket. Ran great for 30 mins... Then mre water in the cylinders. Pulled the pipe tonight and checked the head pipefor cracks. Nothing obvious other than a little score mark. I applied air pressure to the head pipe and found no leaks. Pulled the manifold.....gasket looks iffy. At best. It was new a few days ago. I cleaned the shizzz out of all mating surfaces, scuffed with sand paper and used a brand new exhaust gasket with a generous copper spray, (know I might get some heat for that). Testing again tomorrow ill update
 
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Bobert540

Bobert540

Site Supporter
Location
Rockford,MI
PowersportComposites said:
Update: the head is not the issue. Checked it for "flatness" (not sure what the correct term is) and its straight. Ditched the o rings and ran the head with a stock brand new head gasket. Ran great for 30 mins... Then mre water in the cylinders. Pulled the pipe tonight and checked the head pipefor cracks. Nothing obvious other than a little score mark. I applied air pressure to the head pipe and found no leaks. Pulled the manifold.....gasket looks iffy. At best. It was new a few days ago. I cleaned the shizzz out of all mating surfaces, scuffed with sand paper and used a brand new exhaust gasket with a generous copper spray, (know I might get some heat for that). Testing again tomorrow ill update
Click to expand...

I know you said you checked the head, but did you check the cylinder as well??
 
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