****FREESTYLE STRUCTURE***** need input from all

[RonnyMac]

looks to me so far that we just need the slack asses to enforce what we already have as rules

I agree Slutty. #2 makes the most sense, and is what its supposed to be now.
Another AM class would be cool if there were lots of competitors, but thats not what we have now. I also believe with the rules we have now there is plenty of mods to spend money on. To get to 800cc's you have to put quite a bit of money in your ski alone. Then you throw in all the X-Metal/Blowsion/ect goodies you will need and you have lots of support for aftermarket co's.
We have to keep it reasonable for new competitors to be competitive. Thats what Freestyle needs more than anything. More riders! :biggrin:

 

[Marshj]

The point of an Aftermarket hull in freestyle is weight. In surf, it's mostly strength.
In order to accomodate the limited number of riders interested (i.e., Pete!), a weight limit exception on AM hulls could provide for that.
However, taking into account the inconsistent rule enforcement and downright bone-headedness of tech inspectors, the no am hull rule might be easier to enforce.

And please don't try creating more classes. All this division is deadly to competition, imho.
Yes, lines need to be drawn, but we don't need a f'n labyrinth.

Have you ever competed? How can you say its deadly- if the soft ass sissies are afraid to compete then move the rest of us up, and if the guys like Jp dont have a fighting chance against malone (jp is a hell of a rider and would ride circles around me any day) then put them in expert too.

And make up your freaking mind...you want pete to be able to compete? Then fine, pull all the components out of his hull- weigh it and compair it to the range of weights of stock hulls...tell me when youre done.

That wont f'n work. No aftermarket hulls in beginer. Period. If you want to ride aftermarket hulls, go expert. We need rules that are easy to enforce, or they will not be inforced.

 

[Marshj]

I think am hulls or at least top deck with a weight rule and keep the 800cc rule.What advantage do you really have with an am hull that weighs the same as a stock hull.Also whats the difference if you put an am hood on or take and put an am top deck on?

I shave the rear chines, shorten it..etc etc

 

[CoreyLKN]

I agree Slutty. #2 makes the most sense, and is what its supposed to be now.
Another AM class would be cool if there were lots of competitors, but thats not what we have now. I also believe with the rules we have now there is plenty of mods to spend money on. To get to 800cc's you have to put quite a bit of money in your ski alone. Then you throw in all the X-Metal/Blowsion/ect goodies you will need and you have lots of support for aftermarket co's.
We have to keep it reasonable for new competitors to be competitive. Thats what Freestyle needs more than anything. More riders! :biggrin:

I think number #2 makes the most sense too. It will keep it fair and since i was highly considering competitng next year it wouldn't seem SO unfair, they way it is now you could have one guy with alomost stock sj(normal mods: footholds, pipe, prop, etc) v. a guy with a a/m and a built motor. But hey, it doesnt matter cause i'd still lose any way.:biggthumpup:

 

[Matt_E]

Have you ever competed? How can you say its deadly- if the soft ass sissies are afraid to compete then move the rest of us up, and if the guys like Jp dont have a fighting chance against malone (jp is a hell of a rider and would ride circles around me any day) then put them in expert too.

And make up your freaking mind...you want pete to be able to compete? Then fine, pull all the components out of his hull- weigh it and compair it to the range of weights of stock hulls...tell me when youre done.

That wont f'n work. No aftermarket hulls in beginer. Period. If you want to ride aftermarket hulls, go expert. We need rules that are easy to enforce, or they will not be inforced. Its like choosing between driving or taking the bus to work when there is no traffic...everyone is gonna drive because its easier.

I am not quite sure why you feel the need to get abrasive.

I have not competed, no. I offer my perspective from the outside - and I can tell you that I have no interest in a competition with dozens different classes, as racing is now. All these different classes do NOTHING for making this sport interesting.
Do we really want to split the five different people that miight compete in one region up into 3 classes for Freestyle?
Up here in the Northwest, I have seen exactly ONE guy compete (against whom?) in two years.

 

[Freestylin-FX1]

Too lazy to read 4-pages but I would like to stay stock hull in Amateur. That way Broke F8*$ like me can actually afford to compete. Heck Ill be lucky to afford a B-pipe next season so hulls are completely out of the question LOL


Hey Matt gonna let me compete on your boat this year LOL Talked to chris Riley yesterday Seriously thinking about trying to compete a little on a mostly stock square!:bigeyes:

 

[Marshj]

Sorry I got my panties in a bundle matt. I was just frustrated.

And as far as the different classes in regions, I was speaking of 3 different classes for nationals and wf's. I agree, regional events should be the two classes. heck sometimes they turn into only the one.

I posted on the other thread about Am hulls about making it only wf and nats for three classes. and you have a valued opinion.

 

[Matt_E]

Sorry I got my panties in a bundle matt. I was just frustrated.

NP...I happened to be frustrated (for different reasons) when I read it and responded. :banghead: :cool2: )

And as far as the different classes in regions, I was speaking of 3 different classes for nationals and wf's. I agree, regional events should be the two classes. heck sometimes they turn into only the one.

I posted on the other thread about Am hulls about making it only wf and nats for three classes.

I think that's a very valid idea! Keep it simpler for regionals and get more variety (for fairness) at WF. I like it.

I realized after thinking about it for just a minute that weighing hulls would be retarded. I'd feel bad for excluding someone based on a heavy aftermarket surf hull - but weighing it just complicates it, you are correct.

Well, we're pretty much back at where the rules are at now - no am hulls/topdeck, 800cc or under.

 

[norcal ex]

i like the 800 cc limit, but i do not agree with the hull limit. amyone can make a stock hull almost aslight as an aftermarket hull. you split the ski, grind down both sides to about a 1/8" and then glass lightly and put together and reenforce everything. sure it will be tons of time , but time equals money and in the end it still comes down to who can wrench the best and ride the best. a guy i ride with can do everything he can on both his xft and his superjet hull. ITS ALL ABOUT THE RIDER reguarding hulls engines are a different thing

 

[Speedfreak]

If you want this sport to grow you have to get more people intrested in competing and thoes people would be beginners. Not a lot of beginners have more then footholds and a pipe. Not alone an aftermarket top deck and an 800cc motor. That is some seroius change there. I agree that more classes is just more work and fewer riders in each class but there should be a class that the broke a$$ guy can ride in. It is intimidating to a beginnner that shows up that only has a pipe and a head.

I vote for a novice class: stock hull, no aftermarket cylinders or pumps
so the actual vote is 2 classes option 1 and option 3

 

[SUPERJET-113]

Ahem..(COUGH, COUGH)..

- Does nobody read my posts?!? What are your guys opinions of aftermarket cylinder in the amateurs? You could have any mods you want up to 800cc with you stock hulls, EXCEPT a aftermarket cylinder(Lamey, ADA, Able, etc).

 

[Matt_E]

Very reasonable.

 

[SUPERJET-113]

i like the 800 cc limit, but i do not agree with the hull limit. amyone can make a stock hull almost aslight as an aftermarket hull. you split the ski, grind down both sides to about a 1/8" and then glass lightly and put together and reenforce everything. sure it will be tons of time , but time equals money and in the end it still comes down to who can wrench the best and ride the best. a guy i ride with can do everything he can on both his xft and his superjet hull. ITS ALL ABOUT THE RIDER reguarding hulls engines are a different thing

Lillian Beaumer(Rius old tuner) here in Havasu takes a GP1200/1300R hull and takes off 30 lbs. of gel coat and glass to make them lighter for the stock class. Thats just for a example.. Some could be taken off a SJ too, but when you reinforce, you'll prolly be back to stock weight after all that work is over.. but you'll have saved some weight... That just sounds like too much work for me! lol

 

[CoreyLKN]

If you want this sport to grow you have to get more people intrested in competing and thoes people would be beginners. Not a lot of beginners have more then footholds and a pipe. Not alone an aftermarket top deck and an 800cc motor. That is some seroius change there. I agree that more classes is just more work and fewer riders in each class but there should be a class that the broke a$$ guy can ride in. It is intimidating to a beginnner that shows up that only has a pipe and a head.

I vote for a novice class: stock hull, no aftermarket cylinders or pumps

I agree, for me trying to compete is just to get out there and give it a try, even though i have no chance at winning and im sure that the skill level between a rider like me and say..Ratti(he's an AM right?) is so diffrrent that it would be hard for me to even have a chance if i practiced for like a year more. But i wanna compete just to say i did:woot:

(im sorry if this made no sence at all:banghead: )

 

[accbr]

Ahem..(COUGH, COUGH)..

- Does nobody read my posts?!? What are your guys opinions of aftermarket cylinder in the amateurs? You could have any mods you want up to 800cc with you stock hulls, EXCEPT a aftermarket cylinder(Lamey, ADA, Able, etc).

Can you use aftermarket cylinders now? Is a big bore lamey PV, or a 66e legal in an SJ for amateur.

 

[Big Kahuna]

Can you use aftermarket cylinders now? Is a big bore lamey PV, or a 66e legal in an SJ for amateur.

The lamey technically is legal (Stay under 800cc) Dont think the 66e would be, it not part of the orginal equipment based engine, but could be a gray area there!!!!!!!!!!


But, most amatures are not going to be running Lamey's or ADA's...... so that is not really an issue...........

 

[Big Kahuna]

How was the judging consistency from that trial?

I would say it was pretty good overall, but that was just 1 event 2 years ago......... like I said, problem is it would work for Pro, just not AM, you dont have 5 pro's at regional level, you do good to have 5 AM........... Surf & Turf is probably the largest regional tour with the most freestylers...

 

[arqpablo]

Hey Guys;
In My Opinion Am-800cc Limit/stock Hull. You Need To Show Your Skills.
Pablo.

 

[waterfreak]

You guys know what I think! :sneaky:

BTW If you want to keep the amateur in the same playing field as all others, you should not allow any aftermarket cylinders and cranks (strokers) .Putting an 8 mil stroker (under 800cc) with msd tl and Lamey cylinder in a stock hull will give you a much better edge than any AM hull with standard stroke and oem electronics. So what is really fair here?

Remember guys, this is not a racehere! This is about skills and just having fun !

The bottom line is that I don't want to ride an oem hull and love the big HP strokers so why compete agains people that are going to object and make excuses for losing . Freerides is where it's at!!:Banane01: :Banane01:

Can't wait till Daytona:woot: :woot:

 

[Big Kahuna]

You guys know what I think! :sneaky:

BTW If you want to keep the amateur in the same playing field as all others, you should not allow any aftermarket cylinders and cranks (strokers) .Putting an 8 mil stroker (under 800cc) with msd tl and Lamey cylinder in a stock hull will give you a much better edge than any AM hull with standard stroke and oem electronics. So what is really fair here?

Remember guys, this is not a racehere! This is about skills and just having fun !

The bottom line is that I don't want to ride an oem hull and love the big HP strokers so why compete agains people that are going to object and make excuses for losing . Freerides is where it's at!!:Banane01: :Banane01:

Can't wait till Daytona:woot: :woot:

Like I said before Steve, come to Surf and Turf, nobody will protest or say anything......... I would love to kick your tail on the water!!!!!!!!!


If that is not being called out to come compete I dont know what is!!!!!!!!!


later