Super Jet Melted front (mag) piston - still trying to diagnose, help me out

smoofers

Rockin' the SQUARE!!!!
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Granbury, TX
Was out brapping around on Sunday after I had "fixed" my electrical problem (http://www.x-h2o.com/threads/109489-Superjet-electrical-problem-bouncing-revs-at-low-RPM). Was keeping myself from holding the throttle too long since I wasn't quite sure where I was at jetting wise. Well, after about 4 seconds of a throttle grab the motor slowed down and stopped... sad to say I already knew something was wrong.

Got home, pulled the head off and found my front piston melted:

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Rear piston is in perfect shape, if not a bit lean judging by the piston wash, but no signs of detonation:

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Looks like I will need at least another 1/2mm bore, hopefully I don't need more. The area above the exhaust port looks worse than it is because of all of the aluminum deposited from the melting piston. The good thing is, the dome is in fine shape and the pic makes it look worse than it is. The marks the camera shows aren't really perceptible with a fingernail. It seems to have just flattened out the original tooling texture.:

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First thing I did next was to pull the carbs apart to see if maybe the internal filters were clogged. Carbs were spotless, filters clean, jets clear, check valves had no creases or tears. The following pics are of the fuel filter pulled out of the front (mag) carb:

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A looked at the carb base gaskets too, they looked good and nice imprint still remains. Carb nuts were all as tight as when I installed them.

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Next I pulled the flywheel cover to check my stator timing and make sure it was still aligned with the notch. I am running a RAD flywheel but from what I have heard it was the Jetinetics flywheels that had the problem with improperly set advance (just thinking out loud). Stator was still in the right spot, screws were tight, woodruf key intact. Stator stayed nice and dry, and the cleanliness of it makes me debate if the crank seal was leaking. The drip in the second pic is grease left over from when the seals were installed. Motor was built with new Jetmaniac Japanese seals

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So now the question is.. was I just plain lean? The jetting specs I am using are fatter on bottom than Factory Pipe's recommendations. The gas I was using wasn't the freshest but it wasn't old enough for me to be worried about it (~a month or two). The fact that the front piston smoked and the rear has NO signs of detonation kind of has me stumped. The carbs were clean. The motor was pressure tested when it was built and didn't loose any pressure (~9psi @ 10 mins). Heck, the plugs always looked black when I checked them. Cooling was unrestricted and my pissers never stopped flowing. The only other thing I could guess at is maybe my enhancer is going bad and timing got advanced but that's just me throwing random ideas out.

Following is my setup:

62T/61x (crank, pistons, seals new - built 1 year ago) Motor is NOT ported
81.5mm Weiscos
BR8ES plugs
ADA w/ 35cc domes (I ride at sea level and run 93 octane)
Boysen Pro series (normal tension) reeds
Factory B Ltd pipe - true dual cooling to the manifold
Stock SN waterbox
RAD Flywheel
MSD Enhancer
Hooker 9/15

Stock 38's with stock F/A
135 H
75 L
1.5 n&s with 90g spring
HS 1-1/4 out
LS 1 turn out

Your help would be greatly appreciated, I assume I will go with larger high jets, and keep digging, but does anybody have an opinion? Thanks in advance.

jones2012052.jpg
 
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burnt out blow hole

you pick

air-leak at the magneto side crankshaft seal, too lean carb jetting, too far advanced ignition timing or faulty igniter box, too hot of a spark plug range, too high of a compression ratio, too low octane fuel.
 
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smoofers

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Well the plugs were BR8ES. The fuel was (supposedly) 93 octane. Stator is aligned with the stock notch. Crank seal looked okay, carbs looked okay. Jetting was close?

If it was too lean, wouldn't I at least see some detonation on the rear piston? I will be replacing the crank seals anyway to eliminate that source. Does anybody know how to test an enhancer?
 

D-Roc

I forgot!
Your leaned out to much on main jetting or your high screw is too lean. You where holding it in high rpms and the lean mixture will create high exhaust temps that burn off the insulation coat on the piston and then in no time the piston goes out the exhaust until you have no compression. No deto or pre ignition. Just a lean wot run on one cylinder.
 
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smoofers

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Granbury, TX
Well the more I sit here and stare/inspect my motor in pieces D-roc you are probably right.

I'm just wondering if i should go up to 140 highs?
 

D-Roc

I forgot!
It could be an air leak in that cylinder. I leak test before I break down my motors to see if there are any issues that need attention when re assembling

Or a partial clog in the carb. Whatever the problem, that was a lean melt down.
 
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I'm running almost the same setup as you and am at the same location. I'm running 145 high 1 1/4 out, 80 low 1 out, 1.5 N/S, 95 gram spring on dual 38's, I do have a ported cylinder but I havent had any issue. Maybe try that. Coffmans Lightning pipe and Riva ignition would be the difference
 

smoofers

Rockin' the SQUARE!!!!
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Granbury, TX
Since I'm not ported I think going up on the high "should" just about cover me. Bottom end response was nice and snappy, top felt good too but apparently I needed a bit more fuel.
 
on another note if you have dual pick up makes sure to chek the feeding line for that carb and everything all the way down into the tank as well as fuel selector switch if installed etc....

Check your plugs after short run immediatly , i have managed to avoid lots of damage just by seeing the white plug after a very short run
 

smoofers

Rockin' the SQUARE!!!!
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Granbury, TX
Good advice. As for my fuel setup I have one pickup from the reserve running through a filter and straight to the carb, no selector. I was running the stock single pumper setup though. Wondering if I should go to dual pumpers or an external pump? But does anybody ever really have problems with the single pumper setup on a nearly stock motor?
 
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dfw
Good advice. As for my fuel setup I have one pickup from the reserve running through a filter and straight to the carb, no selector. I was running the stock single pumper setup though. Wondering if I should go to dual pumpers or an external pump? But does anybody ever really have problems with the single pumper setup on a nearly stock motor?

What was your ignition timing?
 
Location
dfw
Explain please

Make a piston stop around top center, mark both stops on either the flywheel or coupler, split the difference and call it zero degrees. Mark the case/flywheel or coupler 21 degrees early and check it with a timing light. Most aftermarket flywheels have more spark lead than stock. I saw a three cylinder with a new top end do the same thing before it ever got on plane, the cause was 35 degrees spark advance. Always verify timing.
 

JetManiac

Stoked
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Jetting looks good. Why dont you just richen up the top screws to 1 1/2?
 
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