Vinyl Estin resin?

[Superjet3]

I was curious if anyone knows anything about this type of resin.. I have heard of Vinyl Ester resin which we are using to build my ski but never Vinyl Estin which watercraft factory is claiming to make his boats out of. I even tried googleing it but didn't come up with anything.

 

[Super Dee]

I think you're referring to Vinyl-Ester Resin. Here is a short little blurb about it on a website:

http://www.rapra.net/vircon/3_2_2.asp

This second link is another explanation of vinyl-ester resin compared to epoxy resin. There is a lot of useful information toward the bottom of the page.

http://www.redrockstore.com/resin.htm

 

[sflsurfrider]

never heard of it. probably just a mis-spellin.

 

[Goose]

vinyl ester resin is the the next best thing to epoxy

 

[guiness92]

I looked it up and found it near the "griddle" heads, "duel" scuppers and other various things while searching for a new "ridding" spot.

Just kiddin, doesnt Steve have a huge french accent? I'm guessing its just a typo or something.

 

[hangtime]

It's weaker than epoxy ?? Why would boat builders use this stuff ?? Is it lighter and/or more cheap to buy .
I would think you would want to use epoxy for the strongest boat, ease of repairs and use of carbon and kevlar in the build .

 

[WFO Speedracer]

Ask Crammit442 he uses this stuff on a daily basis making legs.

 

[sflsurfrider]

It's weaker than epoxy ?? Why would boat builders use this stuff ?? Is it lighter and/or more cheap to buy .
I would think you would want to use epoxy for the strongest boat, ease of repairs and use of carbon and kevlar in the build .

im not a glass expert, but id say its because epoxy doesnt adhere to gelcoat like polyester and vinyl ester does.

also, im pretty sure that vinyl ester is lighter than polyester and epoxy.

its also stonger than polyester.

 

[waterfreak]

I was curious if anyone knows anything about this type of resin.. I have heard of Vinyl Ester resin which we are using to build my ski but never Vinyl Estin which watercraft factory is claiming to make his boats out of. I even tried googleing it but didn't come up with anything.

Yes I'm Canadian!!:icon16:Sorry for the typo...didn't mean to confuse anybody .

Vinyl Ester is comonly used for boat building and many other applications because of its many characteristics:
-chemical resistance
-tensile strenght
-able to use with gelcoats
-doesn't blister
-higher temperature resistance
-lighter per volume than polyester

 

[sflsurfrider]

I looked it up and found it near the "griddle" heads, "duel" scuppers and other various things while searching for a new "ridding" spot.

Just kiddin, doesnt Steve have a huge french accent? I'm guessing its just a typo or something.

no. he sounds like high pitch eric.

:haha:

 

[sflsurfrider]

Yes I'm Canadian!!:icon16:Sorry for the typo...didn't mean to confuse anybody .

Vinyl Ester is comonly used for boat building and many other applications because of its many characteristics:
-chemical resistance
-tensile strenght
-able to use with gelcoats
-doesn't blister
-higher temperature resistance
-lighter per volume than polyester

ive been researching this, 'tensile strenght', that youre claiming that your boats have and couldnt even find anything using the search function.:jester:

:Banane19:

 

[hangtime]

So it's lighter and sticks to polyester better is the only advantages over epoxy ?? If your building a boat from scratch why would it's ability to stick to polyester be a factor when your not using polyester ??
It says on that link provided above that it will not stick to itself real good when making repairs .
It must be way cheaper priced :bigok:

 

[sflsurfrider]

So it's lighter and sticks to polyester better is the only advantages over epoxy ?? If your building a boat from scratch why would it's ability to stick to polyester be a factor when your not using polyester ??
It says on that link provided above that it will not stick to itself real good when making repairs .
It must be way cheaper priced :bigok:

gelcoat is polyester based. gelcoat is the first thing that hits the mold.

epoxy + kickin' gelcoat = no-no.



also, it says that polyester will not stick to itself when making repairs. it doesnt say that about vinyl ester.

vinyl ester costs more than polyester, btw.

 

[astral]

Epoxy resin is known in the marine industry for its incredible toughness and bonding strength. Quality epoxy resins stick to other materials with 2,000-p.s.i. vs. only 500-p.s.i. for vinylester resins and even less for polyesters. In areas that must be able to flex and strain WITH the fibers without micro-fracturing, epoxy resins offer much greater capability. Cured epoxy tends to be very resistant to moisture absorption. Epoxy resin will bond dissimilar or already-cured materials which makes repair work that is very reliable and strong. Epoxy actually bonds to all sorts of fibers very well and also offers excellent results in repair-ability when it is used to bond two different materials together. Initally, epoxy resin is much more difficult to work with and requires additional skill by the technicians who handle it.

Vinylester resins are stronger than polyester resins and cheaper than epoxy resins. Vinylester resins utilize a polyester resin type of cross-linking molecules in the bonding process. Vinylester is a hybrid form of polyester resin which has been toughened with epoxy molecules within the main moleculer structure. Vinyester resins offer better resistance to moisture absorption than polyester resins but it's downside is in the use of liquid styrene to thin it out (not good to breath that stuff) and its sensitivity to atmospheric moisture and temperature. Sometimes it won't cure if the atmospheric conditions are not right. It also has difficulty in bonding dissimilar and already-cured materials. It is not unusual for repair patches on vinylester resin canoes to delaminate or peel off. As vinylester resin ages, it becomes a different resin (due to it's continual curing as it ages) so new vinylester resin sometimes resists bonding to your older canoe, or will bond and then later peel off at a bad time. It is also known that vinylester resins bond very well to fiberglass, but offer a poor bond to kevlar and carbon fibers due to the nature of those two more exotic fibers. Due to the touchy nature of vinylester resin, careful surface preparation is necessary if reasonable adhesion is desired for any repair work.

Polyester resin is the cheapest resin available in the marine industry and offers the poorest adhesion, has the highest water absorption, highest shrinkage, and high VOC's. Polyester resin is only compatible with fiberglass fibers and is best suited to building things that are not weight sensitive. It is also not tough and fractures easily. Polyesters tend to end up with micro-cracks and are tough to re-bond and suffer from osmotic blistering when untreated by an epoxy resin barrier to water. This is really cheap stuff

 

[astral]

epoxy = good
Vinylester resins = ok /alot cheaper
Polyester resin = bad-walmart-junk.

 

[teton]

Vinyl Ester is cheaper than epoxy, only reason to use it
however all those specs you read about epoxy are pretty deceiving, the epoxy you buy at boat us or from us composites are a lot weaker then pure epoxy, they mix in additives to make it easier for us normal people to use. pure epoxy requires heated curing etc....

this is why pre-preg is such a big deal, there is a huge increase in strengh in the use of pure epoxy.

 

[hangtime]

Seems like a good enough reason right here to not use it for jet ski's




Sometimes it won't cure if the atmospheric conditions are not right. It also has difficulty in bonding dissimilar and already-cured materials. It is not unusual for repair patches on vinylester resin canoes to delaminate or peel off. As vinylester resin ages, it becomes a different resin (due to it's continual curing as it ages) so new vinylester resin sometimes resists bonding to your older canoe, or will bond and then later peel off at a bad time. It is also known that vinylester resins bond very well to fiberglass, but offer a poor bond to kevlar and carbon fibers due to the nature of those two more exotic fibers. Due to the touchy nature of vinylester resin, careful surface preparation is necessary if reasonable adhesion is desired for any repair work.

 

[sflsurfrider]

Seems like a good enough reason right here to not use it for jet ski's




Sometimes it won't cure if the atmospheric conditions are not right. It also has difficulty in bonding dissimilar and already-cured materials. It is not unusual for repair patches on vinylester resin canoes to delaminate or peel off. As vinylester resin ages, it becomes a different resin (due to it's continual curing as it ages) so new vinylester resin sometimes resists bonding to your older canoe, or will bond and then later peel off at a bad time. It is also known that vinylester resins bond very well to fiberglass, but offer a poor bond to kevlar and carbon fibers due to the nature of those two more exotic fibers. Due to the touchy nature of vinylester resin, careful surface preparation is necessary if reasonable adhesion is desired for any repair work.

thats why you use epoxy resin for repairs and reinforcement only.

new parts get laid up in vinyl ester. its wet laid so nothing is curing to an already-cured surface. it all cures together in harmony.

wrote a song about it. like to hear it here goes.......

 

[FL-cracker]

vinyl ester resin is the the next best thing to epoxy

But still very far off. :wiggle: This is off The second link from post 2.

Epoxy resin is known in the marine industry for its incredible toughness and bonding strength. Quality epoxy resins stick to other materials with 2,000-p.s.i. vs. only 500-p.s.i. for vinylester resins and even less for polyesters. In areas that must be able to flex and strain WITH the fibers without micro-fracturing, epoxy resins offer much greater capability. Cured epoxy tends to be very resistant to moisture absorption. Epoxy resin will bond dissimilar or already-cured materials which makes repair work that is very reliable and strong. Epoxy actually bonds to all sorts of fibers very well and also offers excellent results in repair-ability when it is used to bond two different materials together. Initally, epoxy resin is much more difficult to work with and requires additional skill by the technicians who handle it.
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Vinylester resins are stronger than polyester resins and cheaper than epoxy resins. Vinylester resins utilize a polyester resin type of cross-linking molecules in the bonding process. Vinylester is a hybrid form of polyester resin which has been toughened with epoxy molecules within the main moleculer structure. Vinyester resins offer better resistance to moisture absorption than polyester resins but it's downside is in the use of liquid styrene to thin it out (not good to breath that stuff) and its sensitivity to atmospheric moisture and temperature. Sometimes it won't cure if the atmospheric conditions are not right. It also has difficulty in bonding dissimilar and already-cured materials. It is not unusual for repair patches on vinylester resin canoes to delaminate or peel off. As vinylester resin ages, it becomes a different resin (due to it's continual curing as it ages) so new vinylester resin sometimes resists bonding to your older canoe, or will bond and then later peel off at a bad time. It is also known that vinylester resins bond very well to fiberglass, but offer a poor bond to kevlar and carbon fibers due to the nature of those two more exotic fibers. Due to the touchy nature of vinylester resin, careful surface preparation is necessary if reasonable adhesion is desired for any repair work.

Polyester resin is the cheapest resin available in the marine industry and offers the poorest adhesion, has the highest water absorption, highest shrinkage, and high VOC's. Polyester resin is only compatible with fiberglass fibers and is best suited to building things that are not weight sensitive. It is also not tough and fractures easily. Polyesters tend to end up with micro-cracks and are tough to re-bond and suffer from osmotic blistering when untreated by an epoxy resin barrier to water. This is really cheap stuff.

 

[Superjet3]

WOW! A simple question turned into this????? Thanks for the clarification Steve. I wasnt sure if you were using a new type of resin or if it was just a typo.