The "why the hell is he doing this" build

[HolyDiver]

So first off let me tell you about my fiberglass experience and how well I am at it before you start to tell me I'm in over my head.... I put some footholds in last winter. Now go ahead and tell me.

So anyways it just so happend I have a spare 650sxhull that's been taking up room in the garage instead of cutting it up with the sawzall and throwing it away. Why not try to build it and make something of it.


So before you tell me I'm an idiot and should just buy a sj or am hull to build let me tell you this. My finances best friend since childhood and her husband and two kids are staying with us for what could possibly be a year. So I need and excuse to stay in the garage. And with work being busy as hell at the moment and only being able to be home and up for a few hours I don't have time to ride so why not build.

The plan is to build a 650 hull that is short nimble and just a blast to ride. As of now I plan on throwing a 701 in it so if anybody knows a good deal on one of those conversion plates let me know.


So let me show you guys what I have so far and please give some input because I'm shooting from the hip and all I have is a beer and a sawzall.

Day 1

 

[HolyDiver]

So I need to know what the best fiberglass to get for molding corners then what's good for the deck and reinforcing. I plan to get everything from us composites.

So far -4 in the rear and the tray is gonna get widened completely. I can't believe it I think it's about a 90 and the foam is still bone dry.

Is there such a thing as to much rocker??

 

[sportfish258]

The official name of this build is the .... Elf shoe. Thats quite a bit of rocker ..... go for it. I love a good wild cat build.

Get your self some 2 pound foam ,1208 biax , another 12 pack and go for it. The foam is great for re shaping corners.

 

[HolyDiver]

Haha yeah a lot of her under bite will be cut off. I'll probably make an order for glass tonight I just couldn't remember that 1208 number.

 

[Yami-Rider]

That looks like a 89 650sx. Are you going to run a bigger pump? or keep it stock?

 

[Dalton]

I still don't understand why everyone is throwing chop strand into their builds. Why not use an equivalent woven or stitched fabric? Saves resin weight and increases strength.

If you don't know, the "08" on the end of 1208 is the designation for the weight of the chop strand mat stitched to the back of the biaxial fabric. The point of biax is to orient long fibers of glass in a way that minimizes bending of fibers and maximizes load distribution. Putting chop strand mat on the back is counter productive...

 

[Henry Stephen]

The official name of this build is the .... Elf shoe. Thats quite a bit of rocker ..... go for it. I love a good wild cat build.

Get your self some 2 pound foam ,1208 biax , another 12 pack and go for it. The foam is great for re shaping corners.

Super rocker....might work against you? Also, that isn't bondo, is it? Epoxy resign will bond well with your SMC with any glass. And Cabisol added to same epoxy resin, is the filler. All avail from USComposites

 

[sportfish258]

I still don't understand why everyone is throwing chop strand into their builds. Why not use an equivalent woven or stitched fabric? Saves resin weight and increases strength.

If you don't know, the "08" on the end of 1208 is the designation for the weight of the chop strand mat stitched to the back of the biaxial fabric. The point of biax is to orient long fibers of glass in a way that minimizes bending of fibers and maximizes load distribution. Putting chop strand mat on the back is counter productive...

My understanding and experience is biax is cheap, strong, and builds up quickly. The mat helps absorb anomalies on the surface of repairs. Agreed it does weigh more and take more resin. I have used 18 oz e glass as well as 6,8.5 etc.

What do you recommend Dalton for fast build up strength etc.

 

[Dalton]

I would pick a heavy biax or triax fabric without mat backing. You make great points on the mat absorbing the surface anomalies and that its very thick which does allow for easy buildup of a very stiff laminate with good strength characteristics.

If the purpose of the build is to increase the ski's potential to it's maximum, why not take the time to add the couple extra layers of plain biax required to reach the same thickness. The result would be equally if not more stiff, far stronger, and marginally lighter.

Not that its a terrible choice...there's just better choices out there for not much more effort is all I'm saying.

Just an example:
http://fgci.com/bp_viewproduct.aspx?itemnum=125634&oldItem=125634
Added bonus is the fabric should not really be any stiffer than an equivalent weight woven cloth. Everyone thinks biax is stiff and unconformable because they have mat stitched to the back of it.

 

[Yami-Rider]

Dalton, your link doesnt work for me.

So do you think chop mat is no good to build a ski or repairs? Should you only use woven/stitched type fiberglass?

 

[Dalton]

Huh seems the link will only work after you've visited the page once already. Do a product search on www.fgci.com for 125634 and it'll come up. It's 17oz biaxial

I definitely wouldn't build a ski out of chop strand. It'd have to be a pig and weigh something similar to a squarenose (smc is chop strand and resin paste). If I blew a hole in my 550 hitting a rock or something chop strand might be appropriate. It'd make for an easy repair and chop strand would be plenty strong for a 30 year old lake cruiser.

In any sort of high performance application or where extensive glasswork is required and heavy loads are anticipated, chop strand has no place in my opinion.

 

[HolyDiver]

I'm pretty sure it was bondo where the hole was it took awhile to chip it off. I don't know why anyone would use it to fix a hole but whatever.

Super rocker looks a little better with the top cut off and it sitting right side up. I might be able to take a little more off because I'm thinking of cutting the top deck off at the bond line to lower the top deck by about two inches.

So what I need is some heavy biax and medium set epoxy resin. I think what I used to hold the rocker together was 1208. It's whatever came with the blowsion foot hold kit.


Anyways here's some pics of the elf shoe gone.

 

[HolyDiver]

As far as a bigger pump I'm not sure yet I might get a donor 701 couch and throw it in will see but for now I'm just gonna run the stock 140mm. I also plan on making a set of tubbies. So do I follow the tubbie up the rocker or what. Also is there a certain distance to keep it from the bottom and how thick/wide should they be?

 

[MikeyB]

In my experience mat lays out better than cloth and the 1708 biax Ive used contours surprisingly well when doing repairs. The good part about the mat content is it helps to build up thickness rapidly and in some applications it helps to avoid print thru. For repairs it works good but when building from scratch it wouldn't make as much sense after the first layer.

Btw cool build!

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[Dalton]

Good point too, as a surface layer it'll be much easier to sand smooth if you lay the cloth with the mat side out so you don't get print through. I'm still not sure I would buy a roll of 1708 biax just as a surface layer. It'd make more sense to buy mat separately from your cloth. Biax isn't cheap. Being a specialty fabric, it's normally more expensive than woven cloth.

 

[MikeyB]

I agree it probably wouldn't be economical for that purpose. I just feel like for repairs it has its place in that it may be less prone to peeling up but for a part from scratch or large layups I'm on your side with it being heavier and not as strong as using a 1700.


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[Dalton]

I would also agree that it has it's place in a lot of repair applications.

The rocker you have going there is pretty awesome @HolyDiver. I always thought 650sx builds were cool. Do you have any plans to move the handlepole bracket up towards the nose?

 

[HolyDiver]

Yeah I think when I cut the top deck off and lower it some I'm going to move the entire top deck forward as well if possible. If that somehow doesn't work I'll move the pole bracket forward by itself.

I ordered about ten yrds of 1700 biax last night so hopefully that will be enough and will work out well.

 

[yamanube]

The pump is plenty big enough, same size as your SXR. I would do something about the brick of an ass end you made.

 

[HolyDiver]

Yeah everything is gonna get reworked by the time I'm done. The ass end should look plenty sexy I just got some beer and charged the batteries for my sawzall so I guess it's time to do a little work.