Super Jet Woes. Tech Help and a Beer Needed!

Fathom

WaveJunkie PR
Location
Central Illinois
Particulars:

Stock ’94 SJ that was pretty much a complete build and never started by me prior to recently.
Compression 152/150
New fuel lines
Strong battery
Good fresh 40:1 fuel mix
HS and LS screws at 1.25 turns
All 44 SBN internals stock, 1.5 N/S, blah, blah, blah
Primer kit

Situation:

I finally got this ski together and attempted to start if for the first time. It started long enough for me to smile after a lot of work, had good throttle response and rev’d freely a few times and then died as I came off throttle to idle. It would not restart.

I pulled the plugs and found I had no spark. I changed coil with a known good one and still had no spark.

I changed the CDI and regained spark. Once it restarted, it would not stop due to a bad switch. It either died on it's own or by me pumping the primer. I'll never know. I changed the switch and it functions, as it should.

I tried to restart and even though it didn’t start easy, it restarted and it died like before but I still have spark. Every now and then, when I attempt to start a small backfire would pass through the exhaust but nothing from the carb that I could hear with the stock FA on. It seemed like flooding caused it.

I disassembled and cleaned the carb. Nothing out of the ordinary was found. Needle and seat looked good as did the jets, internal filter was perfectly clean, diaphragm, etc. I shot all passages with carb cleaner and reassembled the carb. When I tried to start, I had the same exact symptom, hard to start and a slight backfire now and then. Got it to start, fully rev and idle and then it died and would not restart.

I could see the fuel circuit was working as it should. I could see the fuel being drawn and passing back to the tank via the return line.

Thought it may be timing related and needed to rule it out so I pulled the flywheel and looked at the stator. Everything was tight, timing was set where it should be and lock down screws were tight. I reassembled everything and attempted to start and am back to the same symptoms.

The only thing I could think was a busted or non-seated reed causing too much fuel to accumulate in the case. I pulled the intake and found some debris on top of the reeds that could have come from disassembly but the reeds themselves looked well. I cleaned the reeds and prepped all surfaces for reassembly. There was a little fuel accumulation under the crank, enough to say a leaking needle and seat may be the culprit but one thing I failed to do was to pull the flame arrester and look for fuel pouring into the carb from a leaking needle or seat but to the eye, it looked good when visually inspected. I did not do a leakdown test as I don’t have the tester.

I am waiting on the required gaskets and a full 44 SBN rebuild kit figuring it has to be fuel related and I will continue.

In the meantime, is there something I may have overlooked? I've been at this non-stop since yesterday. I need a beer.:1zhelp: :Banane35:
 

SkiDaddy

Just Havin' Fun!
Location
Orange City, FL
Check for seat leakage by looking down the carb bore from a safe distance with a mirror (since it backfires & you don't want to get buned!) as it revs down to near idle from higher RPM. It shouldn't drip or dribble fuel.

New plugs I assume, and did you trim the plug wires?

Also check your ground wire & connections.
 

Fathom

WaveJunkie PR
Location
Central Illinois
MSD crimped connections on fresh trimmed wires. New plugs.

When I get the carb repair kit, I can check for seat leakage but failed to do so before removing the intake and I'm waiting on gaskets.

Grounds in the box are tight.
 

Fathom

WaveJunkie PR
Location
Central Illinois
I just checked the main ground connection on the starter. It was tight and no connection on the bolt or on the ring terminal but I brushed it and reinstalled.

Next.
 

SUPERTUNE

Race Gas Rules
Location
Clearwater Fl.
Is it the OEM stock 44mm carb? not a aftermarket one? Open the low speed screw another turn out so your at 2 1/4 turns out. If you don't know what carb you have...take out both the high and low adjusters and set them beside each other and look at the threads, if they look like the same thread pitch, it's aftermarket type carb, if the low speed adjuster looks like very fine thread then it's OEM carb and WILL NEED to be opened more than 1 1/4 turn you stated that your at on the low adjuster. Another give away it's a OEM carb the low adjuster is made of Stainless steel, not brass in most cases with yamaha carbs.
 

Fathom

WaveJunkie PR
Location
Central Illinois
Thanks Chuck. I was assuming it is an OEM carb since the ski was bone stock, however, both the HS and LS adjusters are brass and what looks to me the same fine thread pitch but I have nothing to compare it to. The LS is longer then the HS. I will do the rebuild as soon as the kit comes. What would be the proper settings, assuming it is an aftermarket one? The HS was set at 1.25. No aftermarket pipe.
 

Fathom

WaveJunkie PR
Location
Central Illinois
So, after reassembly, I now have a completely rebuilt carb, new fuel filter and even changed the pulse line for the fun of it. I go to try and start and I still have the same symptom, it turns over and if I pump the primer to add fuel, it backfires.
I decided to rule out a bad stator and I still have no start.
I can't think of a component at this point that has not been changed out and I still can't get this sucker running. Any ideas?
 

SkiDaddy

Just Havin' Fun!
Location
Orange City, FL
You need 3 things to start; compression (did you check both cylinders?), spark at the right time (did you put spare plugs in the plug caps, ground it with the original plugs still in it & crank to see if it sparks well AT THAT SPEED? Then pull the plugs, put a finger over the plug hole & feel if it's sparking at the right time when cranking?) and gas (plugs wet?)

I'm leaning towards ignition if you have good compression.
 

Fathom

WaveJunkie PR
Location
Central Illinois
I have 150/152 compression and the plugs do have fuel on them after a start attempt. I have not tried to crank it with a second set of plugs though. Both wires do spark though. Are you thinking I'm 180 degrees out?
 

Fathom

WaveJunkie PR
Location
Central Illinois
Alright, I just checked with a second set of plugs. Two plugs in the head, two in the wires. Both cylinders are firing at the same time and when I removed one plug and covered the hole with a finger, it looked as if it was firing on the up-stoke, actually it would fire twice per revolution since both wires fire at the same time.
I thinking I need to take a good running ski down to rob it of it's carb so I can rule out the carb.
I'm out of beer and ideas.
 

D-Roc

I forgot!
if your got compression and the timing is on, you don't need a carb to get it to fart or sputter, just give a little gas down the intake, Your flywheel key hasn't sheared because you said you just checked it? this is a good one, i want to know what you find out.
 

Fathom

WaveJunkie PR
Location
Central Illinois
The key was fine. I've primed it and I know it's got fuel but although it tries to start, it won't and every now and then it will backfire.
I need to rule out the fuel as being the issue so I can swap carbs in the morning with a nown good one that's properly jetted and tuned.
The battery is recharging for the night so I guess I will too.
 

Fathom

WaveJunkie PR
Location
Central Illinois
This morning I ruled out a carb problem by taking the one off my wife's B1. The B1 starts and runs fine with the one from her SJ but the known good one from her B1 did her no good on her SJ. I can rule out the carb at least. Any other ideas?
 

Mouthfulloflake

ISJWTA member #2
Location
NW Arkansas
try manually choking it by covering the top of the carb with your hand.

is it possible that the crank case is full of liquid fuel now?

I had one act very siimilar once, and I held my hand over the carb and tried to start it, and it finally started that way.

possibly check that your reeds are sealing off also?

My next thoughts are wondering if the key sheared just a little, or the crank somehow became out of phase.

it should still run a little though I would think.
 
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