starter wont shut off

[Borderguy]

I am trying to help a buddy fix a kawi 650. He had a huge intermittent problem last year that he thought he fixed, but didnt. Sometimes when he hits the start button, the ski starts, but the starter keeps running. When i say running, i dont mean engaged to the flywheel, just the starter motor itself keeps going which drains the battery. Hes running out of ideas on where to look, He replaced the solenoid last year with a working used one he got, didnt fix the problem. Took the Electrical box apart, cleaned up all the connections and got the water out, didnt help. Has Checked all the wiring and cant seem to find any issues. I thought maybe the starter is going, but everytime he hits the start button, it engages likes supposed to.
He doesnt want to ride until he gets this fixed because hes tired of getting towed in when the battery dies, and im tired of dragging him. lol
Any ideas what it could be and how to fix this?

 

[Kennay]

well you replaced the solenoid, cleaned the ebox connections out so why don't you try replacing the start stop switch

 

[Borderguy]

Yeah, i suggested that, but he doesnt think thats the problem because the motor shuts off when the stop button is pushed. and wont start until you push the start button. you just hear the starter motor running.

 

[bulllfish]

Hey thanks Jimmy. I was just coming on here to ask for suggestions. Slight correction, the starter does engage the flywheel and the switch has been totally cleaned out. Lately though, I can't even touch the positive terminal without the starter cranking on its own without touching the starter button.

 

[Captain PegLeg]

Sounds like a bad electrical brain. My seadoo did kinda the same thing. MPEM was bad. Maybe try to find a known working electrical box and try it. Don't take my word for it though...

 

[D-Roc]

is the stater solonoid stuck so it is alway on? when you attach the positive to the battery can you hear a click as the starter motor turns on? or does it just turn on the starter motor? you may have to feel for the click on the relay if you can't hear it. this could tell you if it is your relay stuck or maybe the start button/wiring.

 

[ang4th]

SWAPTRONICS ,, keep swapping out with known good parts .. complete starts stop button includng wiring harness ,, seems the starter is getting power from somewhere ..

 

[z00m]

I would go for the switch and loom, also make sure the soloniod is earthed and nothing is touching it, also make sure the dog is coming off, if it sticks in the crank case it will seam as though the starter is stuck on, but in fact its the motor turning the starter,

Mick

 

[bulllfish]

Message to d-roc

Thanks for the responses to everyone. Specifically to D-Roc, you bring up a thought in my head. When the positive wire is put on the battery (and before when I could put the pos. wire on the battery) I could hear the starter spinning before the crank case starts to activate. When I replaced the solenoid, it was with another used one. Should I try to replace that again?

Joe

 

[feartheride]

another bad soleniod was my first thought .Not hard to test it with a meter
Disconnect the pos cable and check for voltage.

Can't believe the starter is still good after riding with it engaged,should be a hunk of molten steel by now. Hope the gears are still o.k.

 

[bulllfish]

and just to make sure, I should be getting 12 volts right. Thats what I got when I put it on, but will check again.

Joe

 

[D-Roc]

the starter relay should have 12v on the terminal to the battery. 0 volts on the terminal that has the wire to the starter motor....until...you push the green start button. then you should hear a click as it completes the circuit and have 12V. if you put another one on and it is still running the starter as soon as the positive cable is connected, then i would guess the green start button wires are shorted out telling the starter relay to relay the power to the starter all the time. or another bad relay. disconnect the starter's + wire at the relay. hook up the normal positive cable to the battery. did the relay click as soon as the wire to the battery was connected? if it did, the relay is not stuck on but the green button could be, if it didn't, (the relay could be stuck on) push the green button and see if it clicks...just to check. watch out for positive live wires when the e-box is open and your jumping relays. expect sparks and be aware of any fuel in your hull. nobody looks good without eyebrows.

 

[bulllfish]

thanks, i will start testing

 

[Borderguy]

thanks, i will start testing

Fishy,
What did you find?
Come on and get that thing fixed. Gotta teach you to ride this year :nana:

 

[bulllfish]

Update

I tested and have good results. I have 12 volts from battery to solenoid terminal, 0 volts from 2nd terminal to positive terminal on starter unitil I push the start button, I get 12 volts. Anything else I should test?

 

[D-Roc]

well that sounds like everything is working fine. you can hear the click on the relay when you push the start button.

 

[bulllfish]

I forgot to listen for the click. But with the results with meter, I am sure it's working right. I noticed the inner nut on the postive terminal on the starter was somewhat loose, but that could of been when I took off the outer nut. Could this make the starter go Ka Ka

 

[D-Roc]

no i don't think that would be an issue. so now if everything is hooked back up, and you connect the positive to the battery, it starts turning over without pressing the button?

 

[SUPERTUNE]

Bad battery (low amperage)
Bad starter relay (sticky contacts from low amperage or just worn out)
Bad battery cables (low amperage/bad ground)

 

[bulllfish]

nope, ran out of time yesterday, (lost outside nut to starter under engine carriage). Will let you know when I get it back together. Working a lot of overtime this weekend.

New gel battery last year, been on trickle charge all winter, wires look okay, but wouldn't be opposed to putting on new ones, and solenoid was replaced with a used one, but again don't know if it is a good one. thanks Supertune for the suggestions. If my last efforts don't work out, I will look into the things you suggested.