SJ Starter vs. Cranking vs. Compression???

hydrostyler

hydrostyler

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OK, I just finished building the motor for my square project. After getting it back in the ski and wired up, I figured I would turn it over to check things out. Everything works and sounds good. (no plugs installed yet) Then I grab the gauge to check compression to see where I'm at. About 182 each. Great so far. Then I figure I'll index the plugs and throw them in. Now when I crank it over, with both plug holes filled, I get a couple good rotations and it sounds like the starter only is spinning. If I pull the plugs back out or remove 1 at a time, it cranks fine.:banghead: Whats going on??? Here is what I have and what I've checked: Brand new Odyssey battery at 12.83v Voltage drops to just above 11v during cranking. When referencing engine block/starter as ground, solid 12.83 everywhere. The flywheel is torqued down and not slipping. The brand new bendix is moving freely. Engine is a BB61x/62t with crank&electronics from 6m6. The starter/ electronics worked perfect last year. :frown: I'm hoping to not have to pull everything out as I was only a couple coolant lines and fuel tank away from completion. You guys have any ideas??? Anybody??
 
S

sflsurfrider

did you make sure to install the spring that puts tension against the bendix?

also, is it an OEM bendix or one of those crappy brass colored ones?
 
hydrostyler

hydrostyler

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My buddy has one in his Raider as well and it works fine. Mine spins freely and extends out smoothly in the opposite direction. I was thinking more along the lines of having a problem with the starter staying engaged to the bendix. Are the 6m6 and 62t starters identical? I only have one washer between the bendix and the case for spacing. Maybe my starter is getting weak. When I get back from dinner, if noone has any suggestions, I will swap the bendix back to the oem.
 
hydrostyler

hydrostyler

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Alright, I just realized I don't have my flywheel puller to change the bendix, so I did a little more troubleshooting. If I leave the fw cover off, manually extend the bendix into the flywheel so it's meshed in real good, when I crank the motor over... it makes about a complete revolution and drops back in and continues to spin. It's like the compression is causing the flywheel to jump ahead just quick enough to let the bendix release. Could it be that my starter is wearing down and not spinning fast enough? Even with the charger on it sure doesn't seem to crank as fast as my new SJ.
 
S

sflsurfrider

DO NOT try to crank w/o the flywheel cover on to hold the front of the bendix. if you must, take a spare flywheel cover and cut it up so itll still bolt to the cases, yet, let you see whats happenin in there. if the front of the bendix isnt held in place, it could snap the shaft of the starter or bendix!!!!

the starter gear and bendix gear should always be in constant contact.
 
hydrostyler

hydrostyler

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Oh, don't worry, I was doing the jackass maneuver by holding the shaft of the bendix tight against the flywheel with my bare hand. A few minutes ago I put the cover back on, swapped in a another brand new out of the box Odyssey battery (12.75v). Same thing happens. I then went and grabbed the auto-jump/charger and put it on 40A and gave it a shot. It rotated quite a bit faster/longer, but still let go. I'm leaning heavily towards the starter, being that it is 14 years old. The only thing I did different than last year was to paint it silver with a metallic paint. I highly doubt that could cause a voltage leak through the mount large enough to cause this. I'm just going to swap out the flywheel cover for a Briggs&Straton recoil and hang a pull cord out of the bilge fitting..... This sheot is getting aggravating!!!
 
Matt_E

Matt_E

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I really don't think your hand is strong enough to properly support the bendix. I guess you didn't damage anything. I wouldn't do it anymore if I were you.
The brass bushing in the case that the bendix rests its shaft in can wear out.
 
feartheride

feartheride

feartheride
Location
St.Catharines,On.Canada
You can make a nice little support bracket out of aluminum like this one if you don,t want to wreck a spare cover. I cnc machined this with the bosses built in but you could do the same with a flat piece of aluminum and some spacers or washers.Note the boss on the right had to be ground down a bit to clear
 

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keefer

keefer

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Location
Tennessee
Thats a trick little item. I would like to have one for when you are testing a bendix or messing with timing. It would save some time. :cool2: :biggrin:
 
S

sflsurfrider

feartheride said:
You can make a nice little support bracket out of aluminum like this one if you don,t want to wreck a spare cover. I cnc machined this with the bosses built in but you could do the same with a flat piece of aluminum and some spacers or washers.Note the boss on the right had to be ground down a bit to clear
Click to expand...

nice!
 
hydrostyler

hydrostyler

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Wow, that is a nice piece of work up there. I suppose I could weld one up out of steel to lower the risk of amputation. As long as I've got both thumbs and a few fingers, I'm good. I suppose I'm going to peel the starter out and see what I can find. Anyone know what rpm the motor should spin during crank? Will my tiny tach pick up that low?
 
hydrostyler

hydrostyler

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Alright, I just spent all night wrestling the starter out without pulling the motor. The b-pipe sure makes it fun. First thing I noticed was that there was paint(as I suspected) covering every mounting surface of the starter. After filing the paint off, I completely disassembled the entire starter and wiped the dust off of everything. It still looked like brand new inside. When I got it back together I was sure it was going to work perfectly.. To my surprise it did the same thing. A one second crank followed by the bendix spin. Since my flywheel cover is origionally from a 650, could it be causing the bendix not to line up perfectly with the 62t cases? Why does it turn over correctly with no load?(plugs out) To me it sounds like the bendix and f/w are forcing themselves apart when the compression is high, but nothing appears to be flexing or worn out. I'll pull the f/w & swap the bendix tomorrow and see what happens.
 
S

sflsurfrider

but taking the headpipe off to access the starter only takes 9 and a half minutes
:haha:

it sounds like your bendix is at fault. if it disengages itself from the flywheel while the starter is turning it, its faulty.
 
hydrostyler

hydrostyler

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You guys got it right, I put my stock bendix back in and it cranks over just fine. the ski's all back together and running great so far. I actually just finished loading it up for a test run tomorrow. When I pulled the cheap bendix out and checked it, it didn't spin quite as freely as the oem, but didn't feel bound up. It also looks like the teeth on the throw-out gear are cut more leaving less contact area. Oh well. Anyone in the market for a nice shiny new bendix? lol As far as pulling the starter last night it only took a couple hours to remove, inspect, and reinstall. I did pull the headpipe and chamber. I just didn't want to have to mess with all of the coolant, fuel, and electrical lines while pulling the motor.
Anyway, thank you everyone! I will post some pics as soon as my graphics are on and will definately see some of you at Wave Rave next month.
 
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