Surfriding running dual 38s on larger motors?
- Thread starter masterblaster
- Start date
Boris
The Good Old Days
- Location
- The surf-less coast
or I'm using less throttle to travel at the same rate as the stocker next to me.
Big Kahuna
Administrator
- Location
- Tuscaloosa, AL
maybe because you are not having to open the throttle as much to make the same power as a stock SJ where you probably would ride around with more throttle being used.
I'm running a group k 849 kaw. When I first received the motor I stuck my oem 38's back on it and it was like running a restriction plate. Harry had warned me about this but I had to find out for my self. I quickly slapped on a pair of 48 novis and all is better.
Matt I'm with you man, Harry is a super guy but harry is the conservative reliable motor guy not the radical big hp guy!
Matt I'm with you man, Harry is a super guy but harry is the conservative reliable motor guy not the radical big hp guy!
Boris
The Good Old Days
- Location
- The surf-less coast
that was kind of my point.
The OP is thinking of putting on smaller carbs to deal with a long no wake or slow speed zone. To me that would be pointless.
Big carbs don't always equal to shorter range.
Big Kahuna
Administrator
- Location
- Tuscaloosa, AL
I ran a single conversion years ago...... "These carbs will give you better mileage.".
Wrong. I burned much more gas.
Wrong. I burned much more gas.
onlyFX-1
Jace Forest...BRAP!
- Location
- Lake Travis,Texas
Im running dual oem 38's on a stock manifold and a reed spacer on my ss865. Its still the hardest hitting engine I have riddin on even with those carbs. Once I start getting use to that set up and want more then I will get a better carb/intake set up
Getting best response with big carbs (for everyone that constantly blips the throttle) requires having an overly rich pilot/popoff. The fuel flow difference between the cleanest possible setting and best response setting can be 25%. This split narrows with smaller carbs and increases with larger ones. I still find sbn44s to be the best compromise for any stock stroke engine. Larger carbs always need to be richer below the pipe to respond as well. Riders that like to blip the throttle and want the hardest hit can use bigger carbs but will be passing more fuel all the time.
OCD Solutions
Original, Clean and Dependable Solutions
- Location
- Rentz, GA
Have you ridden with an SS865 with the 46's to compare power and riding times?
I am actually quite surprised with how good the mileage is on mine with the 46's. When i rode my ported 760 with taperbored 38's I used about the same amount of fuel as my buddies SS and he rides harder than I do. I do take more fuel to the surf now but don't find i'm burning that much more than before. The bigger motor wears me out faster though so maybe it's not a fair comparison.
Poorly tuned carbs will burn more fuel too so whatever you choose to run, needs to be dialed in.
I am actually quite surprised with how good the mileage is on mine with the 46's. When i rode my ported 760 with taperbored 38's I used about the same amount of fuel as my buddies SS and he rides harder than I do. I do take more fuel to the surf now but don't find i'm burning that much more than before. The bigger motor wears me out faster though so maybe it's not a fair comparison.
Poorly tuned carbs will burn more fuel too so whatever you choose to run, needs to be dialed in.
masterblaster
X-H2
You and scorn arent much on reading huh? Ive said at least twice in this thread,I have a 2 part boyesen mani and a few top plates,Im going to try some 38s on one for this ride area that is way out a slow wake and a ways down in open water. This way its a 5 min switch back to 48s anywhere else if I choose. I will deff still be making more power with this stroker motor on 38s than any pump fuel ported 701 would
fx,good to know bro,I bet that 865 pv is super linear and torquey with those 38s,what kinda ride time you getting out of them
ocd,thats why im not taperboreing the 38s,I dont want to flow like 44s,kinda defeats the point here.Im not doing it cause I dont have large carbs to run. what kinda run times you getting on 865 and 46s. I need 2 hours+ in this spot
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Big Kahuna
Administrator
- Location
- Tuscaloosa, AL
At low RPM through an idles zone, your not going to be burning much fuel regardless of your carb size. As far as going a good ways down the beach to where your going to ride, just dont run WOT. You would be surprised how far you can go with a light throttle finger.
But I would guess you would burn more fuel once you start riding with the 38's than you would with the larger carbs. Your motor needs X amount of fuel to run a peak effecency (SP). You run smaller carbs, you may find yourself pulling more throttle to compensate.
I have a Protec conversion plate that is for 44's on a stock 38 manifold. If you want it, you might could reverse it (Turn it over). It yours, just pay freight.
But I would guess you would burn more fuel once you start riding with the 38's than you would with the larger carbs. Your motor needs X amount of fuel to run a peak effecency (SP). You run smaller carbs, you may find yourself pulling more throttle to compensate.
I have a Protec conversion plate that is for 44's on a stock 38 manifold. If you want it, you might could reverse it (Turn it over). It yours, just pay freight.
OCD Solutions
Original, Clean and Dependable Solutions
- Location
- Rentz, GA
I don't think i could get 2 hrs of steady riding out of any ski i have ever owned much less my SS865.
I'd be looking for ways to haul extra fuel myself. I started a thread for that subject a couple weeks ago as we found a decent spot to ride but it has a super long run out to it.
I also started a thread identical to this one when i first started looking at the SS motors and got the same replies. I had a fresh set of taperbores ready to go and ended up just selling them off. I too believe in the smaller throat carbs, for standard bores anyways. In the beginning I didn't want to compromise on the new engine although now i may be willing to trade some of that power for mileage and smoothness.
I'd be looking for ways to haul extra fuel myself. I started a thread for that subject a couple weeks ago as we found a decent spot to ride but it has a super long run out to it.
I also started a thread identical to this one when i first started looking at the SS motors and got the same replies. I had a fresh set of taperbores ready to go and ended up just selling them off. I too believe in the smaller throat carbs, for standard bores anyways. In the beginning I didn't want to compromise on the new engine although now i may be willing to trade some of that power for mileage and smoothness.
Flash-FX
No Square..No Round..FX-1
- Location
- South Jersey Shore
Masterblaster, On your way out to the ride zone (slow speed/no wake area), what RPM do you think the engine is running? And how long does it take to get through the zone?
masterblaster
X-H2
bk, I dont think I will use near as much fuel with the 38s only because the total flow will be cut down significantly,less flow = less gas used. I guess we will see as I have never tried anything like this before,it is a rarity to do this kinda thing since this ride zone is so jacked up I have no choice.
Id like to see that conversion plate,can you post a pic here or email it to 1supra@cox.net. Its possible it might work for this kinda mount
Gordon, I run through the slow wake a little faster than most,lol not ridiculous but with the nose slightly out of the water,not sure what rpm,but it sucks major fuel,its about a 15 to 20 min deal depending on speed,I check the gas used before and after it and its always at least as much as I would have used freeriding in the ocean for the same amount of time. I also dont run wot down to the spot in open water,maybe like 20 mph,its such a PITA to try and ride right below the pipe with big carbs also,when you are just trying to get somewhere,major fuel is being used here as well.
For off the beach rides id be fine with 1hr to 1hr 15 usage for the extra power it makes.
ocd,Im just not trying to deal with pulling anything out or riding with gas in the tray,there has got to be another answer thats less PITA
Id like to see that conversion plate,can you post a pic here or email it to 1supra@cox.net. Its possible it might work for this kinda mount
Gordon, I run through the slow wake a little faster than most,lol not ridiculous but with the nose slightly out of the water,not sure what rpm,but it sucks major fuel,its about a 15 to 20 min deal depending on speed,I check the gas used before and after it and its always at least as much as I would have used freeriding in the ocean for the same amount of time. I also dont run wot down to the spot in open water,maybe like 20 mph,its such a PITA to try and ride right below the pipe with big carbs also,when you are just trying to get somewhere,major fuel is being used here as well.
For off the beach rides id be fine with 1hr to 1hr 15 usage for the extra power it makes.
ocd,Im just not trying to deal with pulling anything out or riding with gas in the tray,there has got to be another answer thats less PITA
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Big Kahuna
Administrator
- Location
- Tuscaloosa, AL
Why I was saying I think you may use more fuel, is not so much the idle zone and the cruise to get there, but from actual riding..... You will be giving in more throttle using more fuel. Just my 2 cents.......
I will get a pic tonight.
masterblaster
X-H2
cool thanks,in freeride if you think about it most of us are giving it wot blips,I know I never stop my pull,everything I do is throttled complete in blips,so it should be the same thing with 38s just not making as much power
Big Kahuna
Administrator
- Location
- Tuscaloosa, AL
Wait, why not just take one of your plates, make a template, go get a sheet of alum, have it cut out and then bore the holes for the carbs. But you got to check the spacing. That might be your only issue, I would think they would be close. You could replace the butterflies and shafts and setup like AM Duals if you need wider spacing (or closer)
The big difference comes from 38s being able to run much leaner a part throttle and still have good response. This is where most time is spent and where an overly rich mixture affects run time. Much more so than a bigger carb flowing more air/fuel for the short bursts of full throttle.
I read your whole thread. It's retarded.
How much gas to do think you will save? What maybe a 1/8 gallon? whats that going to do?
Wouldn't you rather have the best performace but give up 5mins of riding?
It looks like you posting just to see yourself post. Good luck with your interweb tuning
masterblaster
X-H2
bk,I can come up with something to use as a coupler for the carbs if I have to,but id rather not fab up something before I know it works as well as the theory. just in case this tool bag scorn is even close to coherent thought.5 min eh?lol Id think there is a much bigger diff,20 min or so