Opinions on filling intake fingers to ramp(62T/64X)

SUPERJET-113

GASKETS FOR CHAMP BRAP!
I know how to epoxy and port the hell out of my cases, but I'm just wondering what you all think about filling the fingers for the "ramp" effect upward.

Thanks to all who reply in advance!
 

#ZERO

Beach Bum
Location
Florida - U.S.A.
Filling the finger area in the 62T cases with epoxy increases the primary compression ratio and helps aid the fuel mixture up through the transfer ports in certain situations. An engine with 120 degrees of transfer port duration has only .004 seconds to deliver its fresh fuel air charge at 5,000 RPM. As these engines are modified by increasing the displacement, bore, stroke, porting, A/M reed cages, spacer plates, etc., the crankcase volume and the primary compression ratio is altered. The primary compression ratio is measured in a similar fashion to the secondary CR. All the area under the piston crown at TDC / the area under the piston crown at BDC. The primary compression is responsible for pushing the fresh fuel air mixture up through the transfer ports when they open to approximately BDC. Depending on the compression ratio, blow down time and exhaust port area, the cylinder pressure may be greater than the crankcase pressure. In these circumstances, it will cause a delay in the scavenging charge entering the cylinder. An increase in crankcase compression ratio, exhaust port area and/or blow down timing would help this. Too much crankcase compression can hurt the intake ports flow of fresh fuel - air mixture from the carb, when there is too much intake port timing and or insufficient port velocity to overcome the back flow from the crankcase.
 

SUPERTUNE

Race Gas Rules
Location
Clearwater Fl.
Filling the finger area in the 62T cases with epoxy increases the primary compression ratio and helps aid the fuel mixture up through the transfer ports in certain situations. An engine with 120 degrees of transfer port duration has only .004 seconds to deliver its fresh fuel air charge at 5,000 RPM. As these engines are modified by increasing the displacement, bore, stroke, porting, A/M reed cages, spacer plates, etc., the crankcase volume and the primary compression ratio is altered. The primary compression ratio is measured in a similar fashion to the secondary CR. All the area under the piston crown at TDC / the area under the piston crown at BDC. The primary compression is responsible for pushing the fresh fuel air mixture up through the transfer ports when they open to approximately BDC. Depending on the compression ratio, blow down time and exhaust port area, the cylinder pressure may be greater than the crankcase pressure. In these circumstances, it will cause a delay in the scavenging charge entering the cylinder. An increase in crankcase compression ratio, exhaust port area and/or blow down timing would help this. Too much crankcase compression can hurt the intake ports flow of fresh fuel - air mixture from the carb, when there is too much intake port timing and or insufficient port velocity to overcome the back flow from the crankcase.

#0, These two compression ratio's are NOT EVEN CLOSE! The Cylinder compression ratio will ALWAYS be 3-4 times of the crankcase compression ratio...
Don't forget that the EXPANSION CHAMBER plays a VERY BIG role here in cylinder filling.
Just being nice to correct you sir!
Chuck
 
In the early days when I first started working with Yamaha, we were devconing crankcases to raise the crankcase pressure as much as possible. This was to help push the fuel/air mix up through the transfers, but back then transfers were small & low (about 114 deg) & so were the pipes.
With the introduction of reed/crank induction, pipes are now fatter, transfers are bigger & higher (125 deg +) & we're taking meat out of the crankcase & increasing the volume as the pipe is now drawing the fuel/air mix through the transfers instead of relying on just crankcase pressure to do it.

If you fill the fingers or not, it's not something that you'll feel. When I do a crankcase porting, I fill them in, but also reshape that area a bit differently anyway.
It's up to you if you want to take the time, but remember your adding material by doing this, & with the right engine setup, bigger crankcase volume can be a good thing
 
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#ZERO

Beach Bum
Location
Florida - U.S.A.
#0, These two compression ratio's are NOT EVEN CLOSE! The Cylinder compression ratio will ALWAYS be 3-4 times of the crankcase compression ratio...
Don't forget that the EXPANSION CHAMBER plays a VERY BIG role here in cylinder filling.
Just being nice to correct you sir!
Chuck
The pressure in the cylinder when the transfer ports open is not only dependant on the primary and secondary compression ratio difference. The exhaust port area and blowdown time plays a big factor in cylinder filling along with the expansion chamber sonic wave reflection.
 

DangerBoy

Runs with scissors
Site Supporter
Location
Rincon Beach
The pressure in the cylinder when the transfer ports open is not only dependant on the primary and secondary compression ratio difference. The exhaust port area and blowdown time plays a big factor in cylinder filling along with the expansion chamber sonic wave reflection.

Cylinder pressure when the transfers OPEN has little to do with primary compression ratios, at that time it has to do with COMBUSTION pressures
and pipe savaging, now as the ports start to close the effect you talk about come into play

Db
 

#ZERO

Beach Bum
Location
Florida - U.S.A.
Cylinder pressure when the transfers OPEN has little to do with primary compression ratios, at that time it has to do with COMBUSTION pressures
and pipe savaging, now as the ports start to close the effect you talk about come into play

Db
I was talking about the fresh fuel air charge pressure going into the cylinder having to overcome the remaining cylinder pressure when the transfer ports are open.
 

DangerBoy

Runs with scissors
Site Supporter
Location
Rincon Beach
I was talking about the fresh fuel air charge pressure going into the cylinder having to overcome the remaining cylinder pressure when the transfer ports are open.

thats old school
nowdays there shouldnt be any remaining pressure (in theory and defendant on rpm ect) this is when the pipe is savaging helping pull air/ fuel into the cylinder

:swordfight:
 
All you have to do is compare say a Sea Doo 951 cc engine to say a Yamaha 62t based billet cylinder of similar displacement and you will see that the porting specs are way different between the two engines. Even if they were set up to run similar rpms.
The biggest difference is the exhaust systems and how they work with the porting.
 
the grooves are so you don't get fuel/oil puddling due to the angle of the entrance.

I think you would be surprised how many world championship racing superjet cases are NOT stuffed in the finger area.
 

SUPERTUNE

Race Gas Rules
Location
Clearwater Fl.
the grooves are so you don't get fuel/oil puddling due to the angle of the entrance. Agree/a five min. warm up fixes that.

I think you would be surprised how many world championship racing superjet cases are NOT stuffed in the finger area.

But this site is NOT about racing, (well a little bit in the racing section) It's about freestyle/freeride riding.

Most engine mods that you do for racing don't do very well on freestyle/freeride ski setups. WE want more bottom and mid power, most could care less about top speed.

But with that said, because we can make good power we still have some pretty descent speed with a taller prop.
 
agree with you. I was telling the author "why" Yamaha put them in there in the first place. Yes, for ultimate hit...stuff it with equal distance from the top of the cage to the bottom. Take a slight tip to the cage up if you stuff them to the max and port the cases to the max.
 
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