Material for Footholds

[KaosFreestyle]

OK Ive been going over all the threads on how to install footholds. But I still want to make sure Im looking at picking up the right products and enough of them.

1. For the glue, is 3m 5200 easier to use then the West System? Is it then just peoples personal preference. Seems like a tube of 3m is $15 compared to West System would be $50?

2. Is there a specific cloth that people use? I know Im going to get some 1208 bi-axial mat to use between the footholds.

3. Specific resin and hardner to use?

4. Ive figured out Im going to get the US Composites 4 LB Density Urethane Foam but dont know if the 4lb which covers 1cu ft or the 16lb which covers 4cu ft is the one to get.


They are Watercraft Factory footholds and going into a Kawasaki 650sx. Figured since Im painting, I mise will try my hand at it before I get a Superjet, so Im looking at the cheap but hopefully still good stuff.

 

[Big Kahuna]

OK Ive been going over all the threads on how to install footholds. But I still want to make sure Im looking at picking up the right products and enough of them.

1. For the glue, is 3m 5200 easier to use then the West System? Is it then just peoples personal preference. Seems like a tube of 3m is $15 compared to West System would be $50? 5200 is fine as long as you screw the footholds or rivet them.

2. Is there a specific cloth that people use? I know Im going to get some 1208 bi-axial mat to use between the footholds. I just used the glass cloth that you get at walmart.

3. Specific resin and hardner to use? West Systems

4. Ive figured out Im going to get the US Composites 4 LB Density Urethane Foam but dont know if the 4lb which covers 1cu ft or the 16lb which covers 4cu ft is the one to get. the 1 cu ft unit unless you are going to dig all the foam out, otherwise just remove enough foam to clearance the footholds.


They are Watercraft Factory footholds and going into a Kawasaki 650sx. Figured since Im painting, I mise will try my hand at it before I get a Superjet, so Im looking at the cheap but hopefully still good stuff.

See notes in red.

 

[Mark44]

http://www.x-h2o.com/threads/214 Everything you need right here.

Mark44

 

[KaosFreestyle]

So West System 105 Epoxy Resin and which ever hardener I want to use, depending on dry time. Anyone better than the other for 60 or so degrees outside?

I dont have to use a filler or is it a good idea to add strength?

 

[jetskiking]

Get all your material from U.S. composits. use fast hardener and silica filler:biggthumpup:

 

[michael950]

Read the Tech FAQ:

http://www.x-h2o.com/threads/1357/post-58891#post58891

Other resources, one with a step by step of materials. I pull the good reads (good content with details) to help reduce the major search results.

 

[WaveDemon]

So West System 105 Epoxy Resin and which ever hardener I want to use, depending on dry time. Anyone better than the other for 60 or so degrees outside?

I dont have to use a filler or is it a good idea to add strength?

you won't need epoxy resin for footholds, polyester should work fine. polyester is a lot cheaper too. I second us composites for cheaper materials.

 

[Big Kahuna]

Polyester will not work with SMC .......................................

 

[WaveDemon]

Polyester will not work with SMC .......................................

the top deck is fiberglass isn't it? I thought only the bottome was smc

 

[sjetrider]

the top deck is fiberglass isn't it? I thought only the bottome was smc

depends what boat you are intalling them on. I would suggest west systems w/ filler instead of 5200 for glue in as well as west systems epoxy for glass. and definateley screw them in w/ stainless #6 1/2" or 3/4" screws too about 20 per side.

 

[KaosFreestyle]

Read the Tech FAQ:

http://www.x-h2o.com/threads/1357/post-58891#post58891

Other resources, one with a step by step of materials. I pull the good reads (good content with details) to help reduce the major search results.

Ive went through that but still but am confused on exactly what cloths and resins. Nothing is really mentioned specifically.

depends what boat you are intalling them on. I would suggest west systems w/ filler instead of 5200 for glue in as well as west systems epoxy for glass. and definateley screw them in w/ stainless #6 1/2" or 3/4" screws too about 20 per side.

Well I like the 3M because of price. Seems like for the West System it would cost $50. or if I get the West System Resin/Hardener and a filler, that doubles not only as the glue but also used for the fiberglassing?

 

[WFO Speedracer]

west system

get the west system with the mini pump set and collodial silica for the glue .you can also get the microlight if you need to make a fairing compound,its pretty much comparable to bondo as far as working it and sanding it ,regular firerglass cloth will be fine,you also nee some rubber gloves and a lot of small throwaway paint brushes as well as something to mix it all in ,mcdonalds cups work great as long as they are clean and dry,and some popsickle sticks for mixing.

 

[michael950]

You can glue in footholds (5200), but best bet is to glass them in b/c you eliminate any possibility of water infiltration (which turns into wet foam which you do not want).

It is not rocket science, you can buy fiberglass from thousands of different retailers. US composites has properties of the cloth under the product photo. Pick a mix of weight and strength. You are installing footholds not making a prosthetic.

If you are unsure what to buy, then get a kit from Blowsion, 24/7 innovations, or Watercraft Factory.


MATERIALS
Epoxy Resin:
Do not use polyester resin, epoxy only - has to do w/ bonding properties to the boat.
Get thin epoxy, not sure of why/when to use thick.
Hardener depends on temp, the cooler the temps the longer it takes for epoxy to harden... so in cooler temps fast hardener. Warmer temps slower hardener.
Read the website for properties (description) of the additives.

Glass:

E-glass is the most widely used fiber when strength and high electrical resistivity are required. S-glass is approximately 30% higher in strength than E-glass and has better properties at elevated temperatures.

To glass in footholds, glass cloth tape is easier to use than regular cloth. Glass footholds in along the seams.
Get 3" cloth tape and under specialty fabrics one of the biaxials.


PROCEDURE

1. Remove turf and clean tray area well removing old turf glue.
2. Cut out using whatever template was provided by foothold manufacturer.
3. Remove enough foam to install the footholds, watch out for exhaust tube on the starboard of ski (the skis right facing the bow).
4. Install footholds, secure with screws or rivets. If using screws, seal bonding layer of footholds (the overlapping edges) with 5200 and allow to cure. After 5200 fully cures remove screws.
5. Optional: pour foam to fill voids behind footholds (this depends on how much foam you removed for installation).
6. Cut fiberglass cloth or tape to lengths required, optional dry fit.
7. Mix your epoxy resin and apply to glass and boat.
8. Optional but highly recommended:Apply glass or bi-axial (10-14oz) mat across tray for added strength for gunwales.
9. Allow cure time for epoxy.
10. (Not sure about this step) Sand epoxy smooth and match (taper/fade) with boat for seamless install.
11. Clean tray area and prep for turf.
12. Turf.
13. Braaaaap.

 

[KaosFreestyle]

That is the post I have been waiting for. I was planning on using a glue and screws. I would go the rivet route and leave them in but I have no way of doing that. Then glassing everything to smooth things over. It was just a matter of figuring out the right materials.

I didnt know Watercraft Factory sold a kit to do this stuff, I would have gotten it then.

 

[gj_fx1]

If you epoxy them in you can remove the screws, then glass over the edge to smooth it out and seal the screw holes.
At 60F you definately want fast set West hardener. The slow is good if its 80+ but even there for a small job you wont have a problem with the fast setting too fast.
.. 60 is really the lowest temp I'd work with epoxy at all by the way.

 

[romack991]

ps. the epoxy from uscomposites.com works just fine. you dont need to spend twice the $ on west systems. spend the 5 bucks and get the pumps too, it makes your life a lot easier.

 

[KaosFreestyle]

Ok Im about to place my order, again just double checking that Im getting this right.

From US Composite Sight:
FOAM-0404 4 LB Kit 1 Cubic Foot

FG-120850 DBM 1208 Knytex Biaxial 1yd

EPOX-635411 635 THIN EPOXY SYSTEM w/ 4:1 Fast Hardener (Quart/8oz)

EPX-P41 4-1 Ratio Pumps

FG-C0427S 4oz S Glass 3yds (3yds enough??)


I missing anything? Going to get the 3M 5200 locally to glue the holds before I glass them.

 

[jetskiking]

Ok Im about to place my order, again just double checking that Im getting this right.

From US Composite Sight:
FOAM-0404 4 LB Kit 1 Cubic Foot

FG-120850 DBM 1208 Knytex Biaxial 1yd

EPOX-635411 635 THIN EPOXY SYSTEM w/ 4:1 Fast Hardener (Quart/8oz)

EPX-P41 4-1 Ratio Pumps

FG-C0427S 4oz S Glass 3yds (3yds enough??)


I missing anything? Going to get the 3M 5200 locally to glue the holds before I glass them.

Get the silica filler. you can mix that into the epoxy for the foothold glue. Then you can also use it for any body work you might come across later. 5200 is a great product but I wouldnt use it on footholds. If you use the filler you are essentially making everything glass and making your holds part of the ski without a weak layer of 5200.Just keep in mind that 5200 is semi drying so it always remains soft and plyable. Not exactly what you are going for installing holds. Also make sure you glass over the entire hold to make it stronger and water tight. Some of the holds can have pretty thin spots that can be cut through with a razor knife installing the turf.Glassing the holds will eliminate any of these problems. Also keep in mind that the fiberglass can be layered and that the lighter the glass the easier to mold around stuff

 

[romack991]

i would get the 1/2 gallon of resin, get twice the amount for only 10 bucks more. you'll end up using it later on.

and the filler like he said... FL-AER025 $5.00

 

[michael950]

That is the post I have been waiting for. I was planning on using a glue and screws. I would go the rivet route and leave them in but I have no way of doing that. Then glassing everything to smooth things over. It was just a matter of figuring out the right materials.

I didnt know Watercraft Factory sold a kit to do this stuff, I would have gotten it then.

They may not sell a kit, but with his product support he might (cloth and mat, no epoxy). That is why I linked the contact page.