Lamey Timing Curve Needed

[Project Ski]

I said in my post I UNDERSTAND their point. in the first part of my post.

Also i dont think "I spoke to Dan Lamey. he suggested 24 degrees to 5000rpm and then pull it at 3 per 1000. I tried to get a little more into the setup and into some questions with him but he wanted no part of the convo." is overly critical. i basically said i got info but he just didnt want to get into any details with me. Is that not the truth?

But after spending 2K on a cylidner and porting from you guys, he also did not even attempt to find out 1 spec on my motor to even try and get an idea of where to start. He gave some timing specs, im sure on the very conservative side to cover himself.

I can understand much more from Chucky or another builder that has nothing to do with the engine to say " hey man i didnt build it and im not sure whats in there, you're on yoru own" but this is one of your products. You should at least take the time to try and find out whats being run/how its being run and give some general guidelines. My basic question to him was.... where in the rpm range do your cylinders exxperience deto with alot of timing. Can you give me a heads up and maybe how much timing needs to be pulled before i get there to be safe.

Im not asking him to give dead on balls accurate timing curve to run the engine on the edge for max power. Just some general info about your cylinders and engine setups.



SCORN800. Its a DASA Cylinder AKA Lamey Cylinder, It was purchased from them. "Racers Edge".

Its guys like freestyle and Wax that make it possible for me to get this thing tuned in. Thank you again guys.

 

[Project Ski]

Oh, one more thing. I am sooooo tired of hearing that peopel are running ragged they cant get to the phone. If i buy a product from you, i expect support on it. It doesnt have to be from Dan himself, if he has someone in the shop that knows their stuff about a particular product thats fine. But dont tell me i should be grateful i even got someone on the phone. Thats rediculous!!!!

 

[Scorn800]

Project Ski- I stand corrected.
Since you payed them for the cylinder & porting they should be able to give you info on timing for your set up.

 

[Scorn800]

Oh, one more thing. I am sooooo tired of hearing that peopel are running ragged they cant get to the phone. If i buy a product from you, i expect support on it. It doesnt have to be from Dan himself, if he has someone in the shop that knows their stuff about a particular product thats fine. But dont tell me i should be grateful i even got someone on the phone. Thats rediculous!!!!

I completely agree.

 

[Big Kahuna]

It is a double edged sword, Lamey did not design the ignition system..... I can understand the reluctance........... I would start with the spec's he gave you and start from there......

 

[wsuwrhr]

It is a double edged sword, Lamey did not design the ignition system..... I can understand the reluctance...........

Exactly.

 

[wsuwrhr]

Dan would talk your ear off about performance, in general, if you ask the right questions.

We will offer ANY AND ALL support to OUR products, what questions do you have about the "2K" cylinder and porting you bought from Racers Edge?

On the same token, I don't beleive we built your motor, so all we know about is the bare cylinder and port timing it was set for.

As far as you layed out your "basic question" I believe he answered it.

Billet or cast?

Big bore or small bore?

Did you buy pistons from us, or did you get your own?

What head, domes, compression?

Race gas, pump gas?

What porting did you choose?

Please post your questions here, or via PM, concerning OUR products and I will be more than happy to provide you with answers.

Anytime.

Brian

I said in my post I UNDERSTAND their point. in the first part of my post.

Also i dont think "I spoke to Dan Lamey. he suggested 24 degrees to 5000rpm and then pull it at 3 per 1000. I tried to get a little more into the setup and into some questions with him but he wanted no part of the convo." is overly critical. i basically said i got info but he just didnt want to get into any details with me. Is that not the truth?

But after spending 2K on a cylidner and porting from you guys, he also did not even attempt to find out 1 spec on my motor to even try and get an idea of where to start. He gave some timing specs, im sure on the very conservative side to cover himself.

I can understand much more from Chucky or another builder that has nothing to do with the engine to say " hey man i didnt build it and im not sure whats in there, you're on yoru own" but this is one of your products. You should at least take the time to try and find out whats being run/how its being run and give some general guidelines. My basic question to him was.... where in the rpm range do your cylinders exxperience deto with alot of timing. Can you give me a heads up and maybe how much timing needs to be pulled before i get there to be safe.

Im not asking him to give dead on balls accurate timing curve to run the engine on the edge for max power. Just some general info about your cylinders and engine setups.



SCORN800. Its a DASA Cylinder AKA Lamey Cylinder, It was purchased from them. "Racers Edge".

Its guys like freestyle and Wax that make it possible for me to get this thing tuned in. Thank you again guys.

 

[wsuwrhr]

You have nooooooo idea what it is like to be Dan, sir.

Have some respect for the man, if you don't mind.

If you bought an Apple computer and turned it into a hotrod, do you expect Ol Bill Gates to give you tech support on it?

Every application is a custom setup, there are so many variables to consider and that is what he was trying to tell you.


Scorn800 He did recieve a basic timing curve.

Racers Edge/DASA Racing/Dan Lamey cares about their/his custumers.

Brian

I completely agree.

Oh, one more thing. I am sooooo tired of hearing that peopel are running ragged they cant get to the phone. If i buy a product from you, i expect support on it. It doesnt have to be from Dan himself, if he has someone in the shop that knows their stuff about a particular product thats fine. But dont tell me i should be grateful i even got someone on the phone. Thats rediculous!!!!

Project Ski- I stand corrected.
Since you payed them for the cylinder & porting they should be able to give you info on timing for your set up.

 

[wsuwrhr]

I said in my post I UNDERSTAND their point. in the first part of my post.

I read that, twice, or was it three times? You even go on to say you "know why" they want to cover themselves then you continued on with your rant about how basically he didn't just drop by to set the timing himself for you.

Post your questions you want answered and I will try to help you further.

I have heard this many times while growing up, "You can get more with a teaspoon of sugar than you can get with a pound of salt."

Brian

 

[Project Ski]

Brian with all due respect. i think you need to reread this post form the beginning. i certainly did not go off on Dan or DASA until you posted and said i need to stop bashing. I dont want this thread to turn into a bash fest. i prefer to keep it about timing curves.

I'll PM you too continue the convo.

 

[Scorn800]

Brian-
It's good to know that Racer's Edge will stand behind it's product & work.
It seems Project Ski decided not to use the information they are providing him with for the work he had done.

Questions to project ski
Why did you buy just the cylinder instead of buying a complete motor? Have you personally set up other lamey cylinder motors?

 

[Project Ski]

The motor was purchased complete. Not from Racers Edge. But th cylinder and porting is their product.

I didnt say i wasnt going to use their recomendation just that i wanted some more info and they were unwilling to provide any answers or even willing to engauge in the conversation. The info they gave me was generic in nature and i was not satisfied. The questions i wanted answered were not unreasonable. At least i dont think so and wouldnt have put his ass on the line so to speak. I wanted information on the characteristics of their cylinder which agian, They should be expert on and should be able to talk about in depth. I got no where.

I was unhappy with what happened on the call but even unhappier with whats happening in this thread. I'm letting some of the BS go and decided to pursue the PM route. We'll see how that goes.

 

[wsuwrhr]

The story thickens, a motor never installed that you bought from someone else. Otherwise called "used" I am sure you don't like this term, but I am sure many would agree.

I recieved your PM ad I will talk with Dan when he has some free time and I will respond as I promised.

Brian

"But after spending 2K on a cylidner and porting from you guys, he also did not even attempt to find out 1 spec on my motor to even try and get an idea of where to start. He gave some timing specs, im sure on the very conservative side to cover himself."

The motor was purchased complete. Not from Racers Edge. But th cylinder and porting is their product.

I didnt say i wasnt going to use their recomendation just that i wanted some more info and they were unwilling to provide any answers or even willing to engauge in the conversation. The info they gave me was generic in nature and i was not satisfied. The questions i wanted answered were not unreasonable. At least i dont think so and wouldnt have put his ass on the line so to speak. I wanted information on the characteristics of their cylinder which agian, They should be expert on and should be able to talk about in depth. I got no where.

I was unhappy with what happened on the call but even unhappier with whats happening in this thread. I'm letting some of the BS go and decided to pursue the PM route. We'll see how that goes.

 

[Project Ski]

Brian, i opened the motor up and in fact it was brand new. never used. But in any case you guys were not aware of this fact when i called and didnt care to find out. Besides, does used change the characteristics of your cylinder? Does used mean you no longer offer support?

When i said $2000 for the cylinder and porting i was estimating and its on the low side. Isnt a cylinder $1800 or so form you? sleeves, porting etc... probably closer to 2500-3000 range. If you care to comment on what it would cost for a cylinder, sleeves and porting we can put the figure to rest. Not sure why you pick the comments out that you do.

The issue here isnt the price, or who put the motor together, or if its used. why???... because those facts were not established when i called and was not even part of the picture when i was hurried off the phone.

I opted to go the PM route but if you wish to continue in the public forum, by all means please do so. Proceed how you see fit.

 

[wsuwrhr]

I chose the quotes I did because you represented that YOU bought the cylinder and more or less "demanded" tech support for your "2K cylinder and porting" as if RE "owed" you something because you have the cylinder in your hand. Foremost, a detailed timing curve for a motor which we DIDN'T assemble or build for.

As far as I understand Dan "gave" you a basic curve to start with(that you asked for) as of yet you haven't recieved a detailed curve or other questions you asked.

You can get more with a teaspoon of sugar than you can with a pound of salt.

I already said I would help, but I ask YOU to reread YOUR posts, as they read well into unecessary inflammatory tones.

Brian

Brian, i opened the motor up and in fact it was brand new. never used. But in any case you guys were not aware of this fact when i called and didnt care to find out. Besides, does used change the characteristics of your cylinder? Does used mean you no longer offer support?

When i said $2000 for the cylinder and porting i was estimating and its on the low side. Isnt a cylinder $1800 or so form you? sleeves, porting etc... probably closer to 2500-3000 range. If you care to comment on what it would cost for a cylinder, sleeves and porting we can put the figure to rest. Not sure why you pick the comments out that you do.

The issue here isnt the price, or who put the motor together, or if its used. why???... because those facts were not established when i called and was not even part of the picture when i was hurried off the phone.

I opted to go the PM route but if you wish to continue in the public forum, by all means please do so. Proceed how you see fit.

 

[Project Ski]

Since you work for Racers edge, wouldnt you prefer to help me out, make a happy customer and look good in front of everyone?

Instead you prefer to enguage in a bash fest in public.

I ask the simple question again, Is a DASA Cylinder for the Yamaha 701 not manufactured by you? Whether i buy it direct or from one of your suppliers or used. IS it still not ultimately your product with money in your pockets?

Same question applies to the port work you performed on the cylinder?


Do you prefer to bash me and squabble about how i aquired the cylinder or to give me some support as best you can?

 

[Scorn800]

Project Ski you are way out on line. You just lied in your post saying you spent 2k on a cylinder & porting from them when you didn't. The person you bought the cylinder from did. That person should have given you the info to set it up.
How do you expect Racer's Edge to know anything about the cylinder other than they made it.
To be honest I think Dan & Racer Edge have provided you with enough info. You sound like someone who is just looking for free info to set up a used motor you bought that you have no idea what to do with.

I have a few more questions for you. Why don't you answer them this time
Who assembled the motor?
How do you know they didn't change the porting?
Have you started it yet?
Is this the 1st lamey/dasa cylinder motor you have set up?
Why do you feel Racer's Edge owes you any more info on timing?

 

[Project Ski]

Scorn,

I do not want to drag the peson i bought this from into it. THey have been more then helpful and have given me a curve they were going to use with an MSD setup. When they got to the limits of their knowlege they said outright and upfront im sorry i just cant help you i wish i could.

I then posted on here looking for help from peopel who may have experience setting up an engine like this. I was lucky enough to find Frestyle and Wax.

It was suggested that i call Racers Edge who manufactures the cylinder and did the porting. SO i did, and we all know how that went.

I know the porting wasnt changed because i spoke to the person who assembled it. It was done by Racers Edge and assembled. The Engine was never started before i got it. I verifed that when i took the head off to change the domes. Its brand new inside.

Yes i have started it and ran it while testing using a stock curve to keep it safe for the time being as i didnt have a real good curve or info to go by.

This is the first Lamey/Dasa engine ive had or used. How does that matter?

I dont feel Racers edge owes me more info on a specific curve so to speak. What i feel they owe me is the time on the phone to at least ask me my engine setup. and answer some questions about the characteristics of their cylinder. I feel they owe it to me because this is their product they should support it and at least try to give good customer service.

It shouldnt matter if i bought it directly from them or someone had it before me. They were paid for this product and need to support it properly. They should support it even if i sell it to someone else and they use it and sell it. I'm not saying they need to give "dead on balls acurate timing info" but some help in setup, general info, an explination on how or why they came up with the info. You get the idea yes?


If you bought a factory pipe used, and called factory to ask them how the screw settings affect performance im sure you wouldnt like it if they said... sorry your the second owner i cant help you. Buy a new one and ill give you the info you need.
You may not expect an exact setting from them like... 1.25 turns out on screw 1, 1.47 turns out on screw 2. But you would liek them to comment on screw 1 gives you higher rpm, screw 3 gives you lower. Try tuning it like this and then adjust in 1/8 increments and monitor the temp of the pipe till you are good.

I've spoken to many vendors in the past few months and some are extremely helpful and give you an explination on how to get the best perofrmance out of their products, how to tune them in safely, etc.... Thats all i was looking for.

 

[egbrig]

I've been reading this thread and here is whats going on. Each engine set up will use a different timing curve. Dan Lamey, infact no one can give a specific timing curve for everyone's engine setup. There are way too many varibles. Once again cylinder psi is NOT the way to describe an engine specification, its compresion ratio. The problem is that most don't understand enough to even ask the right questions, if you did you wouldn't use PSI. Quit blamming Dan, and yes he knows more about engines than all the people on board put together, thats why Yamaha had him design an engine for them. But since you want a timing curve here is what a 6mm Lamey can run if you run race gas. 28* init. to 4500 rpm then 8* @ 9000 rpm. Use a slightly milder curve like 26* and use a little race gas for good measure. I know this is gonna piss you off but this may be over your current knowlege base so pay a professional to set it up and use the gained knowlege for your next endever.

 

[SUPERTUNE]

Project ski, Check your PM, I made you a curve that's aggressive for the low end for pump fuel/low compression and should be plenty safe rate on top end. Pull the head and look for any signs of detonation after a brisk run, also start testing with BR9ES, one step colder plugs, this will give you a safety margin to get tuned in right with jetting. Make sure you don't over-prop and lug the engine RPM's.

:smlove2: