Super Jet I need more power. What is the next step?? 701 Freestyle/Surf SN

[913]

Hello,

I need some advice and would also like to upgrade my ski. I am currently running a 701 with ada girdled head, dual 38s, carbon reeds with spacer, modded cdi, and b pipe in a freestyle 1990 superjet reinforced with footholds, a scupper, dual bilges, dual cooling, rrp pole and 0 degree handlebars, internal gas filler, etc... I feel that I have outgrown this and need MORE power. Which brings me to why I am contacting you.


I am pretty sure that I want to go with 46 blackjacks and the appropriate intake for them. Also, should I upgrade to an msd enhancer? Lightened flywheel? I also want to have my ebox gone over and improved coils and wires with disconnect able contacts so I can take it in and out easily. Do you offer that service?

My goal is to achieve a motor with a billet top end around 900cc. Along with everything needed to make sure it is running at peak performance. I do not have all the money to do everything at once so what should I start with?

Also, if you could give me a little overview of a stroker motor and what my options would be there.

I am more than happy to send you my motor and have it ported and epoxied. I just want to get the ball rolling so I can be ready by spring so I don’t miss the beginning of the season.

Thank you in advance for your time spent on my behalf. Just let me know what I should do/ purchase next.

Tom

 

[Matt_E]

Is this just a copy & paste of an email you sent to potential builders?

 

[913]

Ya i figured if I put it on here people like give me their 2 cents. Also if anyone has parts I might be interested in. i.e. 46mm carbs.

 

[Matt_E]

Just be sure you stick with ONE shop and don't mix & match advice and components. Personally, I would stay away from buying carbs or reeds or electrical components used. New is not much more expensive usually and you know what you're getting. I've gotten burned by used stuff enough times to know it's not worth the little bit of money saved.

For a 900cc motor you will need to build a stroker. This will increase cost. What is your budget?
You mention that you can't do it all at once, but building such a motor is not something you can really do one piece at a time.
I suppose you could build the shortblock and keep running your old carbs, pump, and ignition.
Be aware that the shortblock itself will set you back ~5k.
You'll need good carbs, reeds, intake -another ~1k minimum.
You need a mag pump to put that power on the water - figure ~1.5k.

 

[913]

Ya i figured the motor would be 5k. Not really what I want to spend. So if I went with a BB instead and then upgraded my carbs intakes reeds. Could i start there and then the next phase would be mag pump followed by a billet top end maybe next year?

Where am i going to get the best bang for my buck. I would say max i have to spend this season is 3k. I just dont want to buy something that wont work when i upgrade my motor down the road. so i know 46mm carbs are big for a 701 but then i can use them all the way up to a 900cc. Correct?

I noticed there are mag pump kits for 500? why so cheap and you say 1500???

 

[jamesgunter68]

Why waste you're money on a big bore when you want a stroker
i would get your mag pump first, then save for the engine you want

on the pump. A Solas mag is a lot cheaper than a skat, but it is also much heavier.
skat sells bigger pumps and in a setback option to give you every bit of power from your engine

 

[Matt_E]

Ya i figured the motor would be 5k. Not really what I want to spend. So if I went with a BB instead and then upgraded my carbs intakes reeds. Could i start there and then the next phase would be mag pump followed by a billet top end maybe next year?

Not if you want a 900cc motor. A big bore motor is built on a stock stroke crank. The 900 needs a stroker crank and the cases need work so that the crank works.
I suppose you could do a BB first and then a stroker. But the only things that will transfer from the BB to the stroker + billet topend are the cases and bed plates, and the cases will need heavy work. You're essentially buying two motors.

Where am i going to get the best bang for my buck. I would say max i have to spend this season is 3k. I just dont want to buy something that wont work when i upgrade my motor down the road. so i know 46mm carbs are big for a 701 but then i can use them all the way up to a 900cc. Correct?

Sounds like you have two options: Buy the big motor first and then later the accessories. Or buy the accessories first and then later the motor. Either one will be fine. You could get a total loss ignition, bigger carbs, and a mag pump now and get really nice gains on your current motor.

I noticed there are mag pump kits for 500? why so cheap and you say 1500???

You're referring to the Solas mag pump. That's for the stator section only. You still need a driveshaft, bearings & seals, an impeller, a wear ring, reduction nozzle, etc. You can get a lot of that stuff off your stock pump. Bearings, seals, and impeller will have to be be new, though. (NO, you can't really use your current impeller in a mag pump).
By the time you take care of all that stuff, you're a lot closer to $1,000 than $500. My $1,500 number was for a Skat pump, which are more expensive. Keep in mind that the $500 Solas pump is a 144mm pump. While it will work with a strong 900cc motor, a bigger pump would be better for what you want to do - say a 148mm pump. You won't find those for $500.

 

[913]

Thank you for the great advice.

So a total loss kit is worth the 1600 it costs. versus just getting a msd enhancer? So lets say i want to do carbs, mag pump, and total loss. if you had to pick only 2 which ones should I do? considering each of those are roughly 1500. also for the mag pump should i go with a 148mm or will my current motor not be able to push that? setback or not setback? whats the dif? can i but that all assembled and just bolt it on inplace of what i have now? also what pitch prop? one that i can use once i upgrade motor?

and should i go with 46mm carbs from xscream or should i go with blackjacks from jetworks?

sorry for drowning you with questions haha

 

[98gti]

I say sell your SN for 2K and take that 3K you have and buy a RN for 5-5500 that someone has sunk 8-10K into and BAM! You're done!

 

[Matt_E]

I'd pick total loss and mag pump. The ignition will tickle quite a bit of extra power out of your current motor. The mag pump will put it to the water better. A 148 will be okay for your setup if you pick a low enough pitched impeller. You will need to change impellers once you get your big motor.
I can't comment on the different carbs. I have not used the X-Scream carbs. I have used Riva's Powerbomb carbs, older Full Spectrums, OEM 46 carbs, and several BlackJacks. The BlackJacks were always as good or better than the rest, for less money (though I think the price advantage is not what it once was anymore). Any well tuned set of carbs on the market today will do pretty good. I'd pick whatever the builder of your big motor recommends.

Perhaps you could get the motor a bit cheaper if you're not so set on the billet topend. Some builders make +4mm or +5mm stroker motors with OEM 62T cylinders bored to 88mm that would put you into the 900cc range. That would be a lot cheaper to build for various reasons.
If you are set on billet, maybe look for a used motor. Or look at PHP topends. I think they're less expensive than comparable stuff from DASA or XS.

 

[Matt_E]

I say sell your SN for 2K and take that 3K you have and buy a RN for 5-5500 that someone has sunk 8-10K into and BAM! You're done!

That would be an excellent option.

 

[913]

What should i sell with my SN and what should I keep?

 

[Vumad]

Buy an enhancer, lighten the flywheel and keep putting money away. Contact a builder, find out what it's going to cost you, and get what you want the 1st time.

 

[Vumad]

What should i sell with my SN and what should I keep?

Buy the RN 1st if you can afford it. Then keep all the best parts for your RN. Grab a few stock parts and put the SN back to stock, sell it and then sell the extra parts separate. Best way to maximize your sales. Also keeps you from being w/o a ski and lets you have more flexibility in what RN you buy.

 

[McDog]

Bigger carbs would be useless on your motor. Maybe even decrease performance. Listen to Matt. You may even be better off keeping your drivetrain and getting a carbon hull.

 

[kevbo]

Just take off the air cleaner and saw the muffler off. Put some Yamaha stickers on it and yuur good to go.

 

[913]

why does everyone hate the SN so much?? haha

 

[Matt_E]

They're not hating on the SN. It's just a financially smart move to get as much $$$ as you can out of it and buy a used RN with a good setup.

 

[98gti]

I like SNs. Their just not worth much in the end. You can dump another 5k into your SN on top of what you already have in it and next year be lucky to get 3-3500 tops. But, you can spend 5-5500 on a nicely already built RN from a reputable seller and next year its still worth 5-5500 if you keep it in good shape. If I had 3 grand and a SN that I could sell for 2 id be riding right now instead of wrenching.

 

[Vumad]

Arguably, the SN is a better financial investment than the RN. if you get the SN with a 62T 701, modify the motor and driveline, than transfer everything to a AM hull, you are probably money ahead. A good question would be to ask yourself if you want a light weight AM hull or a RN, and if you are really after power or if you want to be pretty. Yeah, a square isn't going to be worth as much as a RN, but the RN costs more to buy, and if you are going to return it to stock and keep the parts for a AM hull, the value of the 2 hulls is pretty irrelevant. A parted ski will always sell for more than a together ski (assuming it's modified), so it's beneficial regardless of the model, RN or SN, to keep the stock parts, put it back to stock, and sell it separate from the performance parts.

I went with the RN SJ for 3 reasons. 1) the look, 2) available hull/steering mods 3) age/condition. I was willing to pay a little more for #1 and #2, but I paid twice as much for #3. my 2004 SJ is in much better condition than any 1994 SN SJ (I've seen available for sale), and reliability is #1 in my book. I was on a 650sx, so I went with the RN, but if I was on a clean SN with no running problems with all of those mods, I certainly wouldn't spend the extra $1500 and hassle to upgrade a hull. Spend that $1500 on a JM771 ported motor at Daytona. He does a sweet exchange deal. You already have all the parts, other than he might recommend larger carbs, but OEM 44s can be had more fair than what you need for a SS900 (I think he said it's okay to run the 38's on his setup).

Selling for a RN is only good for a few reasons. Your boat is worn out junk, you have some strong desire for that style or some hull/pole mod available, power isn't really your concern, or you can buy one with some sweet mods from someone taking a big loss. You already have a lot of sweet parts, so unless someone wants to give a RN away with a SS900, I don't see the financial benefit.

If you got money burning a hole in your pocket, bring it with you to Daytona, ride a JM771, and if you like it, at the end of the ride, hand him your motor and some cash, and you'll go home with more power.