i give up

Big Kahuna

Big Kahuna

Administrator
Location
Tuscaloosa, AL
There can be some improvements to be had, if the correct curve is utilized......... can also be some drawbacks............


Like I said, It all depends on the combo............


Starvin Marvin knows what he is talking about, as does Chopper........ there boats scream............. I am running the Dynafly prop modified by impros in my race boat, the hookup is incredible, but at a cost of top speed......... I can change grates from my TBM to a Worx and get some more top speed, but then I loose some hookup in the chop......... which can cause loss of top speed........... Cant guarantee the water to be smooth!!!!!!!! Everything has its advantage and dissadvantage......... you just have to find the right mix..........

wont even go into jetting!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
SuperJETT

SuperJETT

So long and thanks for all the fish
Location
none
Parts do not make things go faster, parts that work with your setup properly do. You can build a ski around your ignition and if you go with an aftermarket ignition on that ski, it will probably work best with the same timing as stock because that's how you built the ski to run best. So, there wouldn't be a performance gain there.

However, if you just have some parts stuck on, going with a new ignition may give you a better overall curve or allow you to tweak it for your setup for better performance.

You guys are both right, just for Marvin stock works great because the ski is built for that timing.
 
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waxhead

wannabe backflipper
Location
gold coast
this is a stock sxr curve

RPM ADVANCE
1000 13
1500 13
1800 23
2500 25
3500 27
4000 27
4700 26
5500 21
5700 16
7500 12
7800 18
9000 18

While i conceed its not a bad curve i dont think its the best curve you could have
Anyway i guess we all have op,s and its a subject i think we should let die
Starvin if its working for you and i am sure it is from what i have heard all the best
 
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IceRocket1286

IceRocket1286

Site Supporter
Location
Metro Detroit
Marvin is not saying that a AM ignition is worthless, but DEPENDING ON YOUR SET-UP, it may not benefit you. You may have it set up X way, and Marvins may be set up Y way. X may be better with a AM ignition, while Y may not.

I totally understand that the am ignition can improve your performance, but you can also utilize the stock ignition and make it great.
 
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waxhead

wannabe backflipper
Location
gold coast
Think about this
kawasaki makes it ignitions so you can run the worst possible fuel in your engine and not have detonation
If they set there skis up with lots of advance and fuel they would have a boat that burbled then hit like a mother
and they would be awesome off the line and on the track
and they would use a tank in about 10mins and not sell any
 
R

Ragged Edge Racing

X-
Location
Orange County, Ca.
Wax, why didn't you bring up our discussion about modded ski's being more efficient on there as well? Why is it you feel it necessary to "win" a opinion? People just stated their opinion and you didn't have to agree. And I'm sure most people in the stock class just put the 6 degree advance plate in or the plug for the 04's and '05's. Is a AM ignition worth $400 of performance on the course in stock class over the advance plug, probably not. Just a opinion. I think the subject of winning a debate on the internet was discussed in a another thread.:biggrin:
 
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waxhead

wannabe backflipper
Location
gold coast
Ragged if dont know something i dont discuss it
If i do know then i stick up for my op
I am not a guy thats says stuff about anything when i have no idea, i fi dont know then i dont comment
So if i say something its because i have done it,I dont have to always be right but i dont like to see people put wrong when i have done it and proved it
is there something wrong with that

I gave up on talking to you about modified skis being more efficent because you didnt understand what i was saying and i couldnt be bothered trying to make you understand anymore

The guy in the other thread never asked about money
he asked how to make his sxr go faster on the track
so i said to put an aftermarket ignition in so you can dial the curve in to the exact the boat wants
some one came in and said it doesnt need it
well in fact if you want the maxium hp out of your boat then you do need it

I wasnt talking budget or rider ability
 
R

Ragged Edge Racing

X-
Location
Orange County, Ca.
Wax, there is nothing wrong with sticking to your guns but what was the point of taking it up over here? If your disagreement was with Marvin, take it up with him. I see you agreed to disagree which is fine.

Here is my opinion on ignitions, keep in mine that mine is a limited SXR. I ran it with a stock ignition and it was OK. Put a advance on and it helped a little, more so on the bottom but wasn't earth shattering as far as performance bolt on's go. Put the Advent on and I can't say it was much different than the advance. The real thing the programmable offers over the advance plate/plug is you can bring down the timing at higher rpms and bump the limiter up. Kind of a must for limited and SS ski's.

So being this seems to be just eating at you, show some statistics of a "stock" SXR with stock ignition vs. one with a advance plate/plug vs. one with this programmable you are talking about. Let see 0-25mph times, 25-45mph and top speeds. I assume you will test these in "ideal" conditions which are non existent on the race course. So how about performing this test in 2-3 foot chop/waves and see what you get. Just the variable of the chop/waves and hook up alone will make your times vary significantly.

The real deal is putting the power to the water, not how much you can make. And stock class is suppose to be about rider ability, not how fast you can build one to go. Entire different subject there.

It is quite clear that just about everyone has a different way of tuning a ski. Some know how to do it better than others. Tuning is not a science, it is a art. One way does not fit all. Peace.
 
W

waxhead

wannabe backflipper
Location
gold coast
the thing is ragged when you put an advent in you are using some one elses curve on your engine
its not a curve optimized for your engine
If this is the case then i agree it may go better with a stock ignition
if you got one that you could program then wouldnt it be better because you can actually optimize it for your engine

How about the fact you can run lots of timing down low so you can make the boat burn extra fuel and have it gate really fast

Have you tried the r&d stinger in your ski
well maybe if you tried that with an programable ignition then you would start to see some real benefit

I agree all engine tuners use different things, i would find it funny if you could find an engine builder that said they couldnt get more hp or better power delivery with an aftermarket than they could with a advanced ignition



the person in the post did not talk about rider ability
he wanted to know how to make his boat go better

Ragged if you were so concerned about letting it go then you wouldnt have brought up the other post
(Which i do believe you should post a link to so every one can understand what you were talking about)
 
R

Ragged Edge Racing

X-
Location
Orange County, Ca.
waxhead said:
Ragged if you were so concerned about letting it go then you wouldnt have brought up the other post
(Which i do believe you should post a link to so every one can understand what you were talking about)
Click to expand...

The point I was trying to make is that you seem to want to win( whatever that means) the topic of the discussion. You weren't happy with the direction our discussion was going, so what did you say,"you win". I didn't mean to be so bothersome to you by the way. Then you threw in the towel with everyone on the other topic, you guys win! You weren't satisfied with the answers over there so you brought it here looking for validation. There is nothing to win here! It's purely a opinion, nothing more. As for the Advent curves, I know Greg personally. I got to look at all the curves for a limited application he had in his library from some very well known tuners, and give or take, they were very similar. As for the R&D, I have the Adjust a thrust. Not a bad addition. If you are phishing for customers on this ignition, you aren't using very good bait. Using anecdotal inferences about what other tuners would use(your opinion) isn't helping. Let's just let this die. Agreed?
 
W

waxhead

wannabe backflipper
Location
gold coast
Ragged Edge Racing said:
The point I was trying to make is that you seem to want to win( whatever that means) the topic of the discussion. You weren't happy with the direction our discussion was going, so what did you say,"you win". I didn't mean to be so bothersome to you by the way. Then you threw in the towel with everyone on the other topic, you guys win! You weren't satisfied with the answers over there so you brought it here looking for validation. There is nothing to win here! It's purely a opinion, nothing more. As for the Advent curves, I know Greg personally. I got to look at all the curves for a limited application he had in his library from some very well known tuners, and give or take, they were very similar. As for the R&D, I have the Adjust a thrust. Not a bad addition. If you are phishing for customers on this ignition, you aren't using very good bait. Using anecdotal inferences about what other tuners would use(your opinion) isn't helping. Let's just let this die. Agreed?
Click to expand...

I am glad you know greg personally
how much testing has he done regarding using the stock class sxr ( you only mention the limited sxr)

i am talking about the stinger that goes in the exhaust on an sxr to help it rev on
"The new R&D billet aluminum Exhaust Power Sleeve is designed to insert into the stinger of the stock exhaust to reduce the singer size thereby increasing back pressure. This is a simple installation that will increase top speed and add 100 RPM."
Try doing that on your stock advanced timing and see what happens


the part you are talking about is the pump cone
which is not legal in stock class anyway

And as far as stock class being about rider ability and not how fast you can make a boat go
Are you kidding
if there was a class that mattered then this is it
in s/s you can make more hp than most can use


As far as trying to win sales i cant make enough to fill orders at the moment as they are racing out the door so thats not an issue,i just like people to be informed


Its not about wining , its about giving people the correct information

but i am happy to let it go
 
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Big Kahuna

Big Kahuna

Administrator
Location
Tuscaloosa, AL
Kinda funny you mentioned the stinger, a good friend has tried the stinger mod, he has not been able to realize any gains with it at all.......... Next someone will say that this guy does not know what he is doing...... He must not, even though he holds several National and World Titles (Stock and S.S./Open Class).....


Hey Wax, there are many different timing curves to be utilized, I think you can even contact Advent and give them your specs and they will program it for you.... I know Tim Bushman has a curve setup, Stock, Limited and S.S, Farthing has the same, Tim Zarnsdorf has a few, not to mention many others............


That friend of mine may be interested in your ignition, I was telling him about it last night, may get you to PM me some more specs on it....
 
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waxhead

wannabe backflipper
Location
gold coast
I know of other people who have tried the stinger and found the same thing
the thing is because of the smaller stinger it will increase the temp on the pistons and so make for deto if you are not careful

email me at wax@waxracing.com amd i will send you the software
 
Starvin48

Starvin48

Location
New Baltimore, MI
:biggrin:

Sometimes, I like to reflect on the choices I've made in the past. This is one of those times.

(sitting back and smiling)

:biggrin:


I hope to line up next to you this year at the Worlds.
 
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