Other ATP FLAME anf EPIC PROBLEMS

[Aircraftsalz]

epic is setup with a tbm,so its pretty close to the flame fw weight

You can't compare the EPIC to the Flame... Per Chucky the Flame FW is as light or a little lighter than the MSD. I think XS modifies there msd fw's so the Flame FW is superlight.

Josh,

You got any pics of your Flame ignition? I forgot to try and take a look at it when you guys were in Macon. How was the setup process for it?

The Flame mounts just like the EPIC in your factory box, no one even knows I have TL, lol

The install was simple, just remove the stator & install the ATP stator & FW. Set the static per the directions & all is good.

You need to do this in the ski, while you're trying to start. Anything else is pointless.
I chased my tail for months on my system, and I had two good batteries and an OEM starter.
The OEM starter was worn out and cables were corroded.

Matt your 100% correct, you gotta put the meter on the battery when its in the ski cranking! Like I said this was a problem for me also & all my stuff was either new or very mint... But I still had a bad ground cable that was only 3 months old.

While cranking if you see 10 volts the timing will advance!

 

[Matt_E]

Yep, the Flame fw is lighter than the MSD fw.
I love the looks of the Flame ignition.....looks all stock.

 

[masterblaster]

josh,wow you had a 3 month old brand new ground and it wasnt good enough to work with the flame,did you cut back the insulator to see what the wire looked like close to the connectors? what did you have the ground attached too?

I was told the flame fw was within a oz of the msd,some guys have run the epic with and without the tbm comparing to a stock or lightened stocker and report very little diff,there is a huge weight diff between those 2 flywheels 1lb 11oz,the diff between a tbm and a msd tl fw is only 6 oz so I doubt with a large motor you would feel that very much if at all.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[Matt_E]

You understand that the performance difference between total loss and charging comes from more than just a weight difference, right?

 

[Aircraftsalz]

I was using marine grade cables.... You could tell saltwater had turned the cables blk....

I really love my Flame, simple install, I keep factory coils "Sealed", no one knows you got TL, but the real thing is how much I can play with the timing curves...

With my motor setup I can just plug in a cure with less timing and make my motor smoother, or leave the hard hitting curve in there...

This weekend I made my own curve & wow, its just fun!

 

[masterblaster]

In terms of epic vs flame no I dont? they both have a programmable curve,the only diff would be the fw and the epic is a anolog to digital converter.There is just something much better about the multi spark discharge of the new dual digital system msd makes.

In terms of any tl vs the enhancer or stock cdi there would be a big diff but thats not what we are comparing.

Josh,was it a jss ground wire? You are right about the programmable curve,that is a VERY nice feature,What I did with my msd tl system in the end was mount the brain upside down with longer screws and left the stainless box off the back,so I can make quicker changes to the curve if I like,it would be really cool of someone came up with a external switch for the msd tl system to run 2 curves,it would be as nice as the shifty relay that made it work with the stock start stop

 

[Matt_E]

Besides weight, any total loss system does not have the significant magnetic drag imposed on it that a charging system does.

 

[masterblaster]

True,but now we are really splitting hairs on 850 cc or larger motors

 

[Matt_E]

Based on my own observations, no, absolutely not.

 

[McDog]

So you really think the "multiple spark discharge" makes a significant difference over the Flame system?

I just seems hard to believe.

 

[OCD Solutions]

ScottS was having an issue with his EPIC where sometimes it would be hard to crank and then kick back when he let off the button. We swapped out EPICS this weekend and the problem stayed with the ski. As everything was relatively new already he narrowed in on the solenoid and swapped it out. He ran his original EPIC and the new solenoid the rest of the day and the problem did not return. He will not say for sure that it is resolved 100% until he has a few more rides on it but he is pretty optimistic at this point.

I swapped in my Enhancer for the weekend so I could offer my EPIC to Scott and i sure could tell the difference. I liked the general curve of the Enhancer for surf but it needs a tad more advance down low so I made up a new surf curve blending points from my old curve with the enhancer curve and will be keeping the old curve as is for flatwater days...well i may have added some advance to it as well. :biggrin:

Gotta love the options and ease of programming the ATP products!!!!

 

[Big Kahuna]

In terms of epic vs flame no I dont? they both have a programmable curve,the only diff would be the fw and the epic is a anolog to digital converter.There is just something much better about the multi spark discharge of the new dual digital system msd makes.

In terms of any tl vs the enhancer or stock cdi there would be a big diff but thats not what we are comparing.

Josh,was it a jss ground wire? You are right about the programmable curve,that is a VERY nice feature,What I did with my msd tl system in the end was mount the brain upside down with longer screws and left the stainless box off the back,so I can make quicker changes to the curve if I like,it would be really cool of someone came up with a external switch for the msd tl system to run 2 curves,it would be as nice as the shifty relay that made it work with the stock start stop

So, you ride with the brain open for easy access.

Ingenius.

 

[QJS]

In terms of epic vs flame no I dont? they both have a programmable curve,the only diff would be the fw and the epic is a anolog to digital converter.There is just something much better about the multi spark discharge of the new dual digital system msd makes.

In terms of any tl vs the enhancer or stock cdi there would be a big diff but thats not what we are comparing.

Josh,was it a jss ground wire? You are right about the programmable curve,that is a VERY nice feature,What I did with my msd tl system in the end was mount the brain upside down with longer screws and left the stainless box off the back,so I can make quicker changes to the curve if I like,it would be really cool of someone came up with a external switch for the msd tl system to run 2 curves,it would be as nice as the shifty relay that made it work with the stock start stop

The fact that your MSD t/l makes more power than EPIC has nothing to do with multi spark discharge, you would find the same difference between Flame and EPIC, this is why we make two ignitions. If you want maximum power and dont mind charging your battery get a total loss, if you want to get a good increase in power without charging your battery use an EPIC........simple!
Chris.

 

[parrdaddy]

Question for Chris or other FLAME owners: Can you switch between curves while the engine is running?

 

[Matt_E]

Far as I know, yes. I don't run two curves. Don't really see the point.

 

[masterblaster]

So, you ride with the brain open for easy access.

Ingenius.

Dude if your going to keep making smart ass remarks about things you dont know about,at least read the rest of thread that pertains to it,start with post #10

Chris. Is the flame a dual digital setup like the msd?I know the older msd units were single pickup and not digital.The combo of being multi spark and dual dig gives me the smoothest idle and fastest response ive ever had on any ski or ign. I may try the flame someday if this msd ever craps out,this really is a "ingenious" idea for sure with programmable curves and selector switch for 2 curves,makes great sense to me if you ever have to figure out a motor yourself

OCD..Id of never guessed solenoid,but it makes sense,if it was not making a good connection,this could be enough resistance to drop voltage to 10v, why does the ign advance start timing at a lower voltage in the first place?

 

[200%Absolut]

Question for Chris or other FLAME owners: Can you switch between curves while the engine is running?

yes you can on epic or flame. keep in mind that if the curves are really different this can affect the carb settings.

 

[OCD Solutions]

Chris can explain better but when the voltage drops too low, (6 volts I think) the computer shuts down. When the voltage returns, the computer flashes back up and gives an erratic kick of spark for a moment. They are working on a flash fix that will hopefully reduce the shutdown voltage (2 volts?) and increase the operating range of the EPIC so it may be more forgiving.

 

[masterblaster]

good to know,I noticed that a few times on my epic... after a long time of running my dual 550 bilges the batt was probably getting really low.

 

[Matt_E]

So you think that charging vs non-charging is splitting hairs, but multi-spark discharge isn't?
Lol


Fyi, when the voltage on my Flame drops too low, it'll still crank fine, it just won't fire.