Other Anyone considering buying a Personal Location Beacon?

[Vumad]

I have a suggestion, and I've recently read a lot of articles that are focused on gossip instead of safety. Here's what I think when I read these articles...

http://shopping.yahoo.com/articles/yshoppingarticles/717/7-gadgets-that-wont-be-around-in-2020
GPS devices are becoming obsolote due to the multi-function abilities of newer devices. GPS units are only going to remain valuable to those who adventure in the most remote locations. Your phone is already a GPS device, but it is probably only trackable by authorities...

Until recently...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...1015851.html#s287731&title=OverTheAir_Updates
This article is about a marriage ended by the new app, "find my friends" (as a side note, the marriage of a cheating wife was over when she started cheating, the app didn't end the marriage, it just was the one to let the husband know it was over). Anyway, this app allows you to see your friends on the map. Using the program, your friends and family can occasionally check on you. If you're suppose to be home at 5, but still in the water at 6, time to investigate. It also places a GPS becon on you, so you can be found if unconscious. Your riding group sharing this technology can check the locations of all persons in the group before leaving. If anyone is still in the water, then it might be a good idea to check on them. Etc etc. The media wants gossip, that's what sells. But the true potential of this technology for safety in our sports cannot be measured.

Lastly, Drypak and Aquapac
http://www.kayakcda.com/images/shop/drypak_bags.jpg
http://thedailyreviewer345.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/aquapac.jpg
These are 2 technologies that have been out for years, and are under utilized. I destroyed many phones with leaking hard cases until I descovered these wonderful items. They are so under utilized, employees in the store who sell them are surprised to see them when I find them, which is a shame, because they are so amazing. To attest to thei strength, I once went to adventure island, and stayed in the lazy river texting on my phone through the case, with it mostly submerged for over an hour (this was when phones still had buttons).

I have had both, and they are both great products. I perfer Aquapac because it's smaller seal allows me to wear the strap around my neck, and zip the phone and case up on the inside of my vest. This way I know it will not be lost, and is available in an emergency. The Drypac has a larger seal that prevents this.

At only $13 and lasting several seasons, these pacs are extremely valuable.

The benefits to this route are numerous. If you own the phone, you are a $13 case away from having a GPS. The Phone allows calling which gives the ability to seek rescue, rather than waiting for it. Anyone you permit to access your phone has your location, so there is no need for costly transceivers, and your entire riding crew can have access to your location at any time. Etc etc.

The negitives to this I see are that people know your location. I am not sure if it can be disabled (the person in the article didn't know it was enabled to disable it), but if it cannot be, I am sure in the near future the application will be modified to include such and option. The other downside is that it endages your $500 phone. However, when looking at $100-200 for a far less capable device (some at $300), that $500 chance is less intimidating.

I do not have a smart phone, so I cannot test the device's abilities, if theres an Android option, or if the Android is compatable with the iPhone. I hope to have an Android in the near future, but considering how little I use my phone, and that I almost exclusively ride at a small lake, I don't feel rushed.

Anyway, for those with the phones, please look into the capabilities of these apps and let us know. I'm sure the apps will become more capable and have more abilities to be disabled as their use is given more value that tracking cheating spouses.

 

[Vumad]

Also, these are available for only $70. If you choose to use a beacon over a phone, I might suggest carring one of these or at least having one on your ski. Waiting for someone to realize you are missing after getting seperated from your crew or breaking down is lame. Be able to call for help with more than a whistle.

http://img.nauticexpo.com/images_ne/photo-g/boat-submersible-handheld-vhf-marine-radio-242366.jpg

I have one but I admitedly only carry it when I am riding alone. I only ride alone in the intercoastal or island hopping, not in the surf. I usually just carry my phone.

 

[OCD Solutions]

Interesting idea with many good points. Pretty much everyone in our group carries a smart phone so that end is covered. Not sure how many are comfortable taking their phone out on the water though.

Besides the ruggedness of the dedicated devices, they will also have features that cannot be disabled and a much better battery life. I love my phone but it has just enough flaws that I don't think I would ever put my life in its hands so to speak. Too many eggs in one flimsy litle basket.

A dedicated device is just that, dedicated. It may only do one thing but it is guaranteed to do it when your life depends on it.

What about a dedicated personal GPS tracker unit though? They may be cheaper but would then require that a locator unit or service be available.?.?.

 

[KR]

I got all this stuff at West Marine...

And if any of you are thinking, "Oh they are expensive."

West Marine has a "Match-price" program. Just print out a page from a retail/online store and bring it in with you. West Marine will match that price.

Match-price program does not include ebay, craigslist, private party, or amazon.

 

[OCD Solutions]

I got all this stuff at West Marine...

And if any of you are thinking, "Oh they are expensive."

West Marine has a "Match-price" program. Just print out a page from a retail/online store and bring it in with you. West Marine will match that price.

Match-price program does not include ebay, craigslist, private party, or amazon.

West Marine has the best prices I have found to date and actually willing to deal on pricing a bit. I am waiting to hear back from my local rep to see if corporate will cut us a discount. If so, we may be able to redeem it at any west marine store if we show an affiliation to X-H2O.

As for enabling GPS phones, I am setting up the tracking software now between my phone and my wifes to test it out. The android app is called GPS Tracker by INSTAMAPPER and here are the setup instructions.

Android Tracking HOWTO
Please read the entire HOWTO before registering.


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Step 1
Create a free InstaMapper account. Registration should only take a minute or two. After activating your account, log in and click on "add a tracking device".

Choose a name for your phone and select preferred units. Click "Add". You will be given a 13-digit device key. Write it down somewhere.


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Step 2
Install our application (GPS Tracker) from Android Market. Start the application, hit the menu key, press Settings, and enter the 13-digit device key from step 1. Other settings may be left at default values. Hit "Save".

If the app is stuck in "Locating..." mode for more than a minute or two, make sure you are outside and have a clear view of the sky.


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Step 3
Log in to your account to see the location of your phone on a map.


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Notes
•Press the "Home" key to run GPS Tracker in the background.
•Press the "Back" key to quit tracking.
•GPS Tracker can be configured to start on power on. Go to settings and check "Auto start".
•GPS Tracker can be activated remotely by sending an SMS message to the phone. The message should contain the string "GPS_TRACKER_START device_key". To look up the 13-digit device key for your account, login and click on "Devices".

To stop an instance of GPS Tracker that's already running on a phone, text "GPS_TRACKER_STOP device_key". If all you need is a single location, text "GPS_TRACKER_FETCH device_key. This will cause the app to upload a single location, then exit.

SMS activation is disabled by default. Click on "Remote activation via SMS" in settings to enable it.

On T-Mobile, you can send an SMS to a phone by emailing
<10 digit phone number without dashes>@tmomail.net.
•GPS is powered on continuously for send intervals less than 121 seconds. If you want better battery life, set the send interval to at least 121 seconds. This will cause GPS Tracker to go to sleep in between updates.


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[OCD Solutions]

I still don't trust it but it is interesting none the less.

 

[Vumad]

Interesting idea with many good points. Pretty much everyone in our group carries a smart phone so that end is covered. Not sure how many are comfortable taking their phone out on the water though.

Besides the ruggedness of the dedicated devices, they will also have features that cannot be disabled and a much better battery life. I love my phone but it has just enough flaws that I don't think I would ever put my life in its hands so to speak. Too many eggs in one flimsy litle basket.

A dedicated device is just that, dedicated. It may only do one thing but it is guaranteed to do it when your life depends on it.

What about a dedicated personal GPS tracker unit though? They may be cheaper but would then require that a locator unit or service be available.?.?.

My question is how do you track the GPSBeacon? Does everyone have a beacon and a locator? If someone gets lost, how do you find them? Do you have to have a seperate device noone has? Do you simply log into a website with the smartphone you left in your truck?

I agree specific built items are the best at what they do, but a beacon is a 2-part system. You get knocked out, end up face down, you have about 2-4 minutes w/o air before you arrest, and 2-4 more until your likelyhood of brain damage is extremely high. In frigid waters, a person may remain viable for up to 1 hour, though some reported cases are longer. A "we'll find you sometime" beacon is great, if you're on your ski, floating face up or your idea is body recovery. Otherwise, the item that gets you found the fastest, found alive, is the item with the most value. Say with the android, you go missing, your friends look at theirs, see you're only 100 yards away but can't be seen, time to investigate, the $500 item is worth the risk. But with a beacon, if they have no way to track you, what's the point? $200 wasted.

I'm not trying to denounce the beacon technology. I have limited knowledge of the abilities of the beacons and the abilities of the smart phones aps. What I do know I've seen enough death, and reversed enough death, to know how much a few moments counts.

I'm sure the beacons are great at providing coordinates. The doubt I have is how quickly they can be located. 5 minutes matters.

 

[OCD Solutions]

The one thing you seem to be missing about the beacons is that it is directly tied to the coast guard which would put rescue crews on top of us within minutes. They transmit one signal with gps coordinates at 406mhz and then broadcast a homing signal of 121.5mhz that all search and rescue vehicles are equipped to receive. The added bonus is that this system is used and maintained by the military so it is robust and reliable.

The PLD ( personal location device) has the exact same technology found in larger and more powerful EPIRBs required to be carried on commercial and military vessels.

 

[Vumad]

The one thing you seem to be missing about the beacons is that it is directly tied to the coast guard which would put rescue crews on top of us within minutes. They transmit one signal with gps coordinates at 406mhz and then broadcast a homing signal of 121.5mhz that all search and rescue vehicles are equipped to receive. The added bonus is that this system is used and maintained by the military so it is robust and reliable.

The PLD ( personal location device) has the exact same technology found in larger and more powerful EPIRBs required to be carried on commercial and military vessels.

Right, I agree. It is better at locating a missing person.

What it is not better at is determining that a person is missing. In the incident that prompted this thread, Bruin was missing at least 6 hours, but probably even longer before the coast guard was even notified. I agree the beacon would have been of great assistance in a reaching an earlier resolution to the incident. However, considering the time frame in question, there is a good probability the outcome would have been unchanged even if he were located immediately. Remember, if notification is 6 hours after the incident,it's not an immediate rescue, it's a 6 hour rescue. I don't want to sound too grim, I'll try not to when I say this, but if notification happened at 2am, but he passed at 8pm, the only way to have changed the outcome was earlier notification.

I think we are in agreement but debating different points. Your arguement is that the problem is that he was not found quick enough. Mine is that he was lost in the first place. I only say this because I fear that a beacon prior to this incident would have been a false sense of security, and not a way (it alone) to prevent a future occurance.

I think the answer you and I have concluded is that they both have their value. They are both strongest if working together. One is superior in determining there is an incident. They other is superior in stabilizing and recovering from the incident.

 

[OCD Solutions]

Lol, i agree 100%. No one tool is perfect so the more tools available, the better the outcome will likely be. In situations like Bruins, a quick check would at least give you the last known coordinates as well as the time. Sometime knowing where to start is the most important detail and invaluable for results.

P.S. I have mine and my wife's phone setup already and i love the app for way more than just this application but I still want a PLB in addition too.

Btw, the gps app killed my battery in under 4 hrs. Luckily it has handy feature where it can be activated via SMS so you don't need to have it active all the time and a loved one can activate it remotely when it is really needed.

 

[OCD Solutions]

Got to lay may hands on an demo ACR ResQlink 406 this morning. This thing is so compact and weighs next to nothing. They didn't have any of the neoprene float cases so I couldn't see how it could be attached but I have already decided that I am going to have it sewn right onto my lifejacket.

Without a fixed quantity purchase, they can't offer too much of a price drop. With the idea of selling 10 units they are offering them at $269.99 (plus tax) which is only a 5% discount. If we came at them with a larger order of say 50 units, then they could go direct to ACR and request a further discount for us. They have over 100 units in their warehouse and could have them in my hands ready to ship by wednesday, I just need to know what everybody wants to do.

Here are some pics I snapped while in the store.

 

[Wolf Child]

we need a lot better price not if I'm going to buy it through group buy. I have nearly 200 dollars in point at west marine I can almost get 1 for free

 

[OCD Solutions]

Yup, factor in taxes and shipping and we would be better to buy online. Ebay had them on for $279 shipped. $289 shipped with a neoprene floating case.

I am still waiting to hear back from another distributor but at this point, there is no real cost savings in organizing a group buy. I am going to keep pushing for a group discount code for forum members though.

 

[FlightPlanDan]

A good Idea. Even with a group of riders it can be tough to see anyone on a big day. Especially if they are down behind the ski.
Can't count the times I've tuned around and wondered where everyone went. Only to see them emerge from behind a swell.

 

[OCD Solutions]

A good Idea. Even with a group of riders it can be tough to see anyone on a big day. Especially if they are down behind the ski.
Can't count the times I've tuned around and wondered where everyone went. Only to see them emerge from behind a swell.

Unfortunately, these wouldn't help in that scenario either. These are a worst case scenario or last ditch option only I am afraid.

From all the scenarios and theories i have run thru in the last week or so, I am really starting to see a gap in what is available and what would actually by useful to us. As mentioned above, what we really need is a device similar to an avalanche beacon. One that is transmitting at all times so activation is not necessary. when someone goes missing, each rider switches their device from transmit to receieve and tracks down the missing rider. A device like that would cover off almost all the scenarios I've encountered or heard of and make the PLD unnecessary. Those who ride alone should still consider a PLD.

 

[OCD Solutions]

Just found them here for $265.00
http://www.thegpsstore.com/ACR-ResQ...n-P2719.aspx?gclid=CJC8lZ7F_asCFYxx5Qod7GeWjw

You Hozers need to check to make sure the same networks are available to you up there and that the frequencies are the same. Pretty sure they are the same but worth checking out first.

I also did some research today about who foots the bill when the Coast Guard is called. The good news is that the taxpayer foots the bill in just about all scenarios (except pranks or hoaxes). If you are in a national park, then they foot the bill. If you are offshore then coast Guard foots the bill. There are some instances where the bill may be passed on but these situations are very rare although there is a huge debate over this topic so be aware that it could change.

 

[FlightPlanDan]

Not a button you want to hit by accident!

Maybe we should just watch each other more carefully.

Sometimes the simplest solution is the most effective.

 

[OCD Solutions]

Not a button you want to hit by accident!

Maybe we should just watch each other more carefully.

Sometimes the simplest solution is the most effective.

The button is hidden under the antenna so very unlikey to be hit by accident.

I may have worded it wrong in my last post. If you push the button and call out for help it will not cost you a penny. Your tax dollars already have it covered.

 

[OCD Solutions]

I sent an email off to S.O.S (Survival on Snow) to ask them if they would be interested in offering a waterproof version of their avalanche beacon and here is their response.

Hi Boyer,

Thanks for your interest in Survival On Snow. Your idea has some merit but at this time we are unable to pursue your idea. Please check out the ACR web site listed below as they may be able to help you. Good luck.

http://www.acrelectronics.com/

Ken Turner
Sales Manager

 

[OptimaRacing]

Hey guys, I wanted to offer this (I know the SPOT is offered a lot less at West Marine and others, but this is a small way I can give back:'
http://www.x-h2o.com/threads/102766-Kevin-Bruins-SPOT-GPS-Messenger-Donation