701 61x questions (in a Raider)

[TempoGT]

Hey all,

I posted this over on greenhulk, but haven't had any answers. I thought maybe some of you running a 701 with a pro-tec head could maybe clarify some issues for me:

I started putting all the goodies on today that I got over the winter (I know it's late in the season to be starting) and I ran into several issues. (PS: 1996 701 Raider, 61x engine.)

One, I snapped one of those dinky little screws that holds the reeds on the cage, now I have to find a small enough bolt out to remove it, plus find a new screw.

Two, I dropped one of the temp sensor screws in the hull and I'm pretty sure it went under the fuel tank..

..which I need to empty to switch over to 91 octane for the high compression head, but it's 3/4 full..

And the head has me scratching mine, because the spark plugs in the stock head have shorter threads than what the pro-tec rec head needs. I never really thought about the length of the threads; are there the same heat plugs but with different lengths?

Second question 'bout the head - the mounting holes don't line up for the stock exhaust bracket of the 61x, nor do they line up with the wet-jet exhaust I was hoping to run. Anyone have solutions for this? The reason I ask is because both exhausts are heavy (the stock one needs a bracket), especially the wet-jet one, and I'm scared that without support it would bang around. Heck, even attached I'm kinda worried it would rip off half a cylinder. I still have to check to see if the new pipe will fit, but I think it should.

On the bright side, I got the new F/A on and the jets in the carb without any trouble.

Also started working on removing the old mats, which came up pretty well, except for the glue. I haven't tried acetone yet, but I tried the Goo Gone automotive spray gel. Nothing! It made it less sticky but didn't remove anything. I really didn't try too hard, so I guess it merits another attempt tomorrow with the Goo. If that doesn't work, I'll break out the acetone.

As for the new Hydro-Turf, I'm surprised there's no cutout for either the HIN or the gay-spray. What do others do about it? I'm thinking for the HIN I can just use an exacto and make a little cutout, but for the spray, do I just cover over the hole, or do I cut a hole in the turf? I have no objection to having the spray there.

Thanks for the help, and hope you enjoyed the read.

Dave

 

[BruceSki]

for the spark plugs you need to use ES plugs instead of HS plugs.

For the reed cage, it may be easier to buy a used set of stock reeds and bolt those to your manifold, rather than messing with getting that broken bolt out. I think you could get a set of stockers for a few bucks.

As for the turf, you need to make sure you use a heat gun when applying the weldwood contact cement and use a brand new razor blade to make any cuts. Turf wears out a blade in just a few cuts with the knife.

As for the mounting brackets not lining up, IDK. sometimes aftermarket parts are meant to be used with other aftermarket parts. Maybe that head is specific to a pro-tec pipe and that's why it won't line up. Can't really tell much without a picture of it though.

good luck.

 

[Matt_E]

Aftermarket heads usually don't accomodate for a stock exhaust. You can call Protec and see if they sell a bracket that will make it fit.

 

[bigo]

those pro-tec heads only line up with there exhaust systems.

 

[TempoGT]

pics included

Thanks for the replies guys.

I brought the reeds to the shop at work, used a #1 center drill to turn the broken screw out, then passed a tap (M3 if anyone's interested) to clean out the threads... which is what I didn't do the first time around.

Good to know about the plugs.

As for the turf, the guy I bought it from got it with the 3M adhesive, so it should make my life a little easier.

You're right about the brackts not lining up, but it's close, so I should be able to modify the existing bracket to fit (see pics). Sadly it seems as though the pro-tec only has 2 mounting holes, where the stock head and this bracket have 3. It should be enough.. I hope. :fingersx:

I also have a question about the exhaust manifold gaskets. If you look at the attached picture, the one on the left is the Yamaha manifold and gasket, and the one on the right is the wetjet gasket. The passages in yellow are missing from the wet jet one, so I was wondering could I just use a stock Yam gasket, or should I try and find a wet jet one?

As well, the exhaust ports on the wetjet seem a little smaller than stock (to be confirmed - they're damned close), so if I were to open them up slightly, then the WJ gasket wouldn't really fit, would it?

Thanks again!

Dave

 

[SUPERTUNE]

A open hole oem 61x exhaust gasket will work fine. No need for a wetjet gasket.

 

[TempoGT]

Thanks for the reply. It's a little easier to get one of them than it is the wetjet one.

As for progress, I still haven't got the head & exhaust sorted out, but I should by the end of this week. After all that, I might have a riva red pipe on the way too, to see how that goes vs. this one.

Got the hull all cleaned up from the old mats (anyone thinking of changing theirs out, think twice cause it's still a pain even with acetone). I'd love to clean up some of the rub rails and other painted parts with the heat gun (restores some of the colour - I can find the link for the GH topic if anyone is interested), but that should be an off season project. We've had the best weather for 2 weeks and I haven't been out on my ride yet!

 

[TempoGT]

Quick follow-up:

The stock head has 3 mounting holes which are super close to the wetjet exhaust.. so if I were to keep the stock head, it'd likely fit with a lot less hassle.. but a lot less power.

By the end of the week I should have the bracket fixed and ready to go, then hopefully get out on the water this weekend!

 

[TempoGT]

I'm in the final assembly stages, and now I have a couple of final problems to resolve:
(just as a recap, 701 61x, pro-tec rec head, wet-jet exhaust)

1. For the head bolts, Yamaha specifies Loctite 572... can I use 1211 or RTV instead? No threadlocker right?
2. The water routing has me very confused. Carl at pro-tec told me one thing, and the manual seems to tell me another.
   1. The pro-tec head has two ports for cooling
   2. Carl tells me: incoming water from jet to exhaust manifold
      1. fitting in rear of head -> water to exhaust pipe (as current one does)
      2. stock exhaust pipe: fitting on head pipe to T, one side of T goes to pilot water
      3. fitting in front of head straight to water bypass - T into stock bypass
      4. stock head has little hose 1/8 goes to pipe, so block off hole on pipe
   3. This seems to be saying the incoming water hooks up to the exhaust manifold, but the manual says to attach it to the rear of the head. Which is it?
   4. What is the water bypass? I'm not familiar with the term.
3. If you check out wetjet's site (http://wetjetparts.com/WEBSHARE/WWWROOT/intranet/boats/9597.htm) they have two different cooling charts, but I'm not sure which applies as I don't know what ski this exhaust came from. One agrees with Yamaha and routes water into the exhaust, and one agrees with Pro-tec and routes it into the head.
4. I'm tempted to agree with the MUFFLER / COOLING GROUP 96-97 DUO C7 because it doesn't have the little 1/8th nipple on the head.

Any help would be appreciated!!

 

[Matt_E]

1. Head bolts. Just use some anti-seize.

2. Go with what Carl told you.

3. What's the question?

 

[TempoGT]

1. Head bolts. Just use some anti-seize.

2. Go with what Carl told you.

3. What's the question?

Thanks Matt!

1. There's no water passage near the bolts that would require sealing in anyway? Else, why would they specify threadsealant (which is what 572 is).

2. So cool through the exhaust manifold, ok. But what line goes to the pisser? (currently I have the exhaust manifold line routed to the pisser as in the figure below). This is OPPOSITE to what Carl says. EDIT: If bypass = pisser, I'm good


3. This was kinda a recap and I realised it was redundant.

4. What's a water bypass that Carl mentions - does he mean the pisser?

Dave

 

[Matt_E]

There is no water passage you need to seal near the head bolts.

Typically, the cooling water enters the motor through the exhaust manifold.
Then it leaves the motor through whatever outlets you have in the head.
From there it can go to a pisser or to the pipe.
If you have two outlets, one would go straight to a pisser and the other to the pipe, then to a pisser.
One of these needs to be teed to feed the waterbox, too.

Bypass = pisser.

 

[TempoGT]

When you say it goes from the outlet to the pipe then to the pisser, do you mean take the line that goes from the head and put a T, with one branch going to the pisser and one going to the pipe?

If you have a look at the attached, can you see if I missed something.



I see I might've missed something going to #27...

Dave

 

[Matt_E]

Yes, that would work.

 

[TempoGT]

Thanks again Matt!

As for the one that goes to #27, I don't recall offhand if that even applies to the Raider. I'll have to check when I get home tonight.

Dave

 

[TempoGT]

One last question: on the stock setup, there's a small 1/8 line that goes from the head to the pipe, but I'm not sure what thats for (bleeder or pulse line?)

On the pro-tec head, that little fitting doesn't exist, but there is place to attach it on the exhaust pipe. Should I block off the one on the pipe, which is circled in red on the attached pic?

Also, is the bolt circled in green to adjust the water being injected? I don't think I have a bolt there on my model, I'll check tomorrow when I get to the shop.

Dave

 

[Matt_E]

Block it on the stock pipe. A little vacuum cap works great.

 

[TempoGT]

Awesome, thanks again Matt.

As for the adjuster question I had, I checked on my pipe, and nothing there.

 

[Matt_E]

Humm....actually, now that I think about it: I am not 100% sure, but that little fitting may be the stinger water injection. If you run without it, pay close attention to exhaust temperatures. The hose to the waterbox may overheat.
I was thinking of the reverse situation, an stock head + aftermarket pipe. You cap the fitting on the stock head.
Perhaps someone else can chime in here.

 

[TempoGT]

If that is the case, would I tee that in from one of the lines going to the water bypass?

If you look at the diagram in post #13, there's no line that goes directly to the waterbox, but there are two that go from the top of the pipe down to the stinger (# 31,32 and 33 in the dwg). Not pictured is the little 1/8th, but it injects very close to there. Would those 2 big lines be enough?

Dave