Novi 44 freestyle vs fs 46s or ts 46s

[masterblaster]

anyone ever use these novi freeestyle carbs,They are bored to 48 on the bottom and use 48 mill plates,but retain the the 44 mill tops to boost sig and use the stock bolt on f/a. I saw at the ts tent in tona that ed at full spec is doing something sim now with a 46 retail mikuni. has anyone done any testing with any of these carbs

 

[waxhead]

Yes I have , they are an awesome thing. You will be very happy with these carbs!!!!!

 

[Idok]

thats how TLR used to do them as well......im sure there are internal mods as well..

Torr, does that carb still have the little screen inside??

 

[egbrig]

What kind of "internal mod" ?

 

[masterblaster]

eric,he is speaking of the chuckie mod,he removes the internal fuel filters for faster,less aerated fuel delivery and drills out the returns for use of a y split with a 60 return jet and doubles up the anti siphon valves to clean up the low speed transition.

idok Novi techs keep the filters in and mod with the venturi,booster and metering holes.Im told this allows for a bigger pilot jet and still maintains very clean metering ,the returns are open and use a 60 jet return as well.
Im guessing the new fs 46s are very sim inside.Ive never seem a tlr carb like this

wax..how did they feel in comparison to the full modded novi 46s Ive noticed that my older novi 46s are 48 on top,48 plates and taper to 46 in the bottom

 

[2XLR8]

I really don't understand this freestyle mod. I see this carb as a 44 mm with the lower section bored out to 48 mm. The outer venturi is not touched and a new flower design booster is installed. There is no visible decrease in airflow resistance by substituting the booster. It is said that this booster design increases signal over the original booster design, maybe it does. This carbs size differential between throttle bore and outer venturi is double what it is on the standard 44 and 46 mm Mikunis. Do you really need this much signal? Does this mean that a stock 44 is lacking signal. I see bone stock engines including 650 SuperJets and even 550 piston ports using super bn carbs with out any signal problem issues. If anybody had signal issues it would be them. I know it has to flow more air than a 44 but does it flow more air than a stock 46 mm that has a 2 mm larger outer venturi and air horn? Maybe I’m missing something. How much does this mod cost?
On the TS 46’s running two high speed check valves (I heard of people running more) it appears like they are trying to slow down the high speed circuit a bit. Two check valves versus one is like trying to kill the signal because it is too strong. It’s like the opposite. It probably has to do with lower than ideal pop off pressure and it is an attempt to fix the dribbling.
Carbs are funny you do something to fix a problem and you just might create a new one..

 

[kevbo]

Size seems to sell and jetskiers only know how big their butterfly is. Aftermarket carb "modifiers" have wised up and given the consumer something to brag about while secretly leaving the correct size venturi in place. We need a four needle carb but that cannot be achieved with the SBN. How about a universal four needle carb with removable venturis and a remote regulator and pump.

 

[Flash-FX]

[QUOTEanyone ever use these novi freeestyle carbs,They are bored to 48 on the bottom and use 48 mill plates,but retain the the 44 mill tops to boost sig and use the stock bolt on f/a. I saw at the ts tent in tona that ed at full spec is doing something sim now with a 46 retail mikuni. has anyone done any testing with any of these carbs[/QUOTE]

Gee...they sure look pretty! I missed them at the TS booth cause it was so LOUD and Chuck was getting beat up from a bad cold...WHAT??...yep,it was stupid loud. That's a interesting concept, I don't quite understand why/how using a 48mm butterfly on a 44mm carb can help here? (rambling from here on out)...Most of the "big" motors (800cc+) can generate plenty of vacuum. Normally, a larger butterfly and venturi aids in total CFM delivery...right? It's not the big CFM#'s we are looking for here, is it. How does this 48mm butterfly effect the fuel/air delivery out of those little "transition/bypass holes"? And what has been done to those little holes? larger, smaller, more or less of them,re-located. Perhaps,this "mod" really helps for a more precise metering in those bigger dual carbed motors? Is this the idle to midrange FIX that we have been searching for?

Lots of questions....

Heck, I can machine up a 1mm thick sleeve and slide it into the top of my 46mm carb. Do you think I'll get similar results?.....JK.

 

[2XLR8]

Maybe its like the reason some want 1100 cc engines with 50 mm carbs and 155 mm mag pumps and a super light hull . It still boils down to either better performance or fixing an inherit problem. Better performance = better hit is really more of the midrange and that is due to good fuel metering and increased flow if we are looking to improve there. Crispness with consistent throttle response and predictability is what we are all looking for. The big question is are the standard super Bn 44 and 46 mm carbs that bad that we need to resort to such mods to function to our expectations. If dual 44s can work very good on a 700 cc engine couldn't we use larger and more flow capable carbs on large engines built for specific application such as freestyle ? I say yes.

 

[masterblaster]

gordon,These arent the carbs ts had in their tent,they had the new 46 full specs that ed made up for them,basically the same thing,with a fs booster put into a straight through retail 46 mikuni though,But one thing is interesting though if you look at the new freestyle specific fs 49 mill carb it has a reduced venturi in the middle necked down to a 46

xlr8,acording to tim at novi,its all about precise metering and consistent tuning in all weather.Would stock carbs work....im sure.are these better.....id be surprised if they are not

 

[scottie mac]

Good tuning > bigger carbs.

But, good tuning with bigger carbs is tough to beat. LOL

If people spent as much time learning to tune as they did arguing over what size, make, color, weight, flux capacitored carb was best, a lot more people would be happy with their set ups. The BEST carb for each application is the one the tuner can tune the best. A set of dual 38s tuned perfectly will have better throttle response than a set of 46/48/50s tuned incorrectly.

Scottie

 

[masterblaster]

its no secret a untuned carb doesnt work well,in this case the ? is assuming all are tuned perfect,what carb will tune the easyest and stay tuned in all weather conditions and make the most power with the snappiest throttle response and use the least fuel in the process.This is why im looking at these.My full spec 48s hit great,their fuel consumption is just as great unfortunately.

 

[2XLR8]

It all boils down to the law of physics. If you have more hit that means more power and more power means more fuel.This is assuming you were jetted correctly before. Its just like a guy that weighs 280 pounds is going to eat twice as much if not more than a guy weighing 140 pounds. It is funny to see people wanting more power out of their carburetor and the same gas milage. It is common sense that if you have slower velocity you need to be richer so as to not stumble upon acceleration . The down fall to this is a needed richer low speed mixture this drops your fuel milage. The benefit is more hit and more power. You choose. I always see the same questions which carb is the best. The best for what? Everyone is buying bigger carbs and modified carbs but it is not the carbs that make the power it is the engine that makes the power. Feed it correctly and modify it correctly and it will deliver.

 

[scottie mac]

Could not agree more.

SM

It all boils down to the law of physics. If you have more hit that means more power and more power means more fuel.This is assuming you were jetted correctly before. Its just like a guy that weighs 280 pounds is going to eat twice as much if not more than a guy weighing 140 pounds. It is funny to see people wanting more power out of their carburetor and the same gas milage. It is common sense that if you have slower velocity you need to be richer so as to not stumble upon acceleration . The down fall to this is a needed richer low speed mixture this drops your fuel milage. The benefit is more hit and more power. You choose. I always see the same questions which carb is the best. The best for what? Everyone is buying bigger carbs and modified carbs but it is not the carbs that make the power it is the engine that makes the power. Feed it correctly and modify it correctly and it will deliver.

 

[masterblaster]

I almost posted something like this behind my comment cause I knew it was coming from someone.True more power requires more fuel,but some carbs even of the same size as others GULP fuel instead of sip at the same power level.Some are just more efficient than others.the old full specs I have do need a much richer low speed mixture to hit good off the bottom.I didnt think we even needed to mention on this site what we are using them for,ocean freeriding. Fuel consumption is only an issue with the distance we have to travel in the water getting there.Tim says the metering in this carb is super fine with the best signal you can get,this would require less of a rich setting on low speed settings to still come off the bottom hard and snappy right? Leaves me to wonder if the power delivery would still be the same down low and mid and use less fuel,almost no one here cares if they lose a little top end,we never use it anyway.this is where freeriders are willing to make the compromise,not so much with leaning out the bottom and lossing hit to save a little fuel.

 

[kevbo]

Im still wondering whats wrong with Standard SBNs. I have a Keihin 42 that clearly needs another pilot hole drilled in the body but never noticed this problem with an SBN. The aftermarket carb people are going to have to provide more information about their products. I think too many people are throwing a lot of money around hoping for better performance.

 

[waxhead]

If people actually realized how carbs wok alot of questions would not have to be asked
The fuel does not get sucked in its gets forced in , the pressure inside the fuel bowl, diaphragm area moves through the jet because of the lower pressure in the carb caused by the high air speed in the throat.
The bigger the carb the less speed for the same amount of given air.
So there for people come up with all different shaped boosters/ venturis to increase the pressure differential between the bowl/ diaphragm area and the carb throat in the bigger carbs to restore the pressure differential
This is why you see all sorts of different boosters in the throat of the carbs being invented.
The greater the pressure drop the more fuel will flow through a certain jet. if you do not have a decent pressure difference it can make the carb hard to tune and very fussy on the weather conditions. this is why the stock 38s are so good to tune as they have high air speed and good pressure differential and thus very consistent jetting.
I have found in all my carb testing that the new novi booster has the greatest pressure drop to date allowing the carbs to be easy to tune.
the greater the pressure drop the smaller the jet you use so there for the greater the speed through the jet for the same amount of fuel. because fuel is heavier than air it takes longer to accelerate up to speed. When you stab the throttle open the air speeds up fast and the fuel after it , so the carb with the right jetting that uses the smaller jet accelerates the fuel faster and catches up to the air requirements quicker.
This is also part of the science behind reverse jetting.
But what would I know Im just an internet tuner that doesn't know how to tune a carb

 

[Flash-FX]

gordon,These arent the carbs ts had in their tent,they had the new 46 full specs that ed made up for them,basically the same thing,with a fs booster put into a straight through retail 46 mikuni though,But one thing is interesting though if you look at the new freestyle specific fs 49 mill carb it has a reduced venturi in the middle necked down to a 46

xlr8,acording to tim at novi,its all about precise metering and consistent tuning in all weather.Would stock carbs work....im sure.are these better.....id be surprised if they are not

MB, Got ya..

Cutting through the technical BS, If those carbs pictured were tested on a TS 827 (and offered precise metering at any throttle setting) I'd buy 2 sets NOW! :439:

 

[WILKEY]

still tryin to figure it out eh

 

[Flash-FX]

still tryin to figure it out eh

Who me?