Super Jet no charge or cheap battery?

agua

FIshing for Stand ups
Location
Seminole, Fl
Ive taken my superjet out every day this week and every day last week but it seems like the battery will only last 2 days at a time and is pretty much dead when we come in or its dead and thats the reason we came back home.

my question is: is this because it has a cheapo walmart non sealed battery in it or is it not charging correctly off the stator
 
Get a digital battery charger or borrow one and do the following: first place the charger on battery in monitor volts mode only, then start the ski and the meter should start to climb up to 14.3 or 14.4 volts indicating your charging system is working...I had a sealed wally batt last over 4 yrs, that should be the AGM type which last longer than liquid acid spill type....hope that helps...
 

AtomicPunk

Lifetime bans are AWESOME
Site Supporter
Location
Largo, Fl
Get a volt METER (analog or digital). Harbor Freight probably has them for $10. You do not have to get a digital battery charger, but follow everything else JumpOnIt said. You are looking for an increase in voltage when running/revving. Once you figure that out, you can determine with your voltmeter if you have a parasitic draw.

IMO the the cheap battery "tenders" are slightly better than worthless (Battery Tender brand are OK). A good battery charger capable of 10 amps is best. I have access to expensive battery conditioners/chargers, but my 20 year old, Sears 10 amp automatic charger works great.
 

Cannibal

Tasty Human
Location
Summit Lake, WA
AGM batteries require a different charging algorithm than your typical lead acid battery. If you guys are going to make your AGM batteries last, you will need a charger that is capable of charging the batteries correctly. Watch cheap chargers that even say AGM on them, they need to have a switch to change to that type.

Also, don't charge them with a maintainer. Maintainers don't have any algorithm built into them. They just keep the battery "full" like your charging system on your ski.

There are smart "tenders" out there like the Jetworks one. It's more than just a 1.5A maintainer, not sure about the "Battery tender" brand stuff.
 
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AtomicPunk

Lifetime bans are AWESOME
Site Supporter
Location
Largo, Fl
Agreed to a point....

You can go out and spend $60-$300 for an AGM charger that has the correct algorithm (the difference is usually the amperage and the sophistication of the software).

AGM batterys will perform better (longer life) when charged with high current (amps, not necessarily voltage). Higher currents will break up the sulphate crystals better than low current chargers.

Half amp "maintainers" flat out suck. The "Jetworks" battery tender is the "Battery Tender" brand. It is OK, but I prefer higher amperage charge rate which is why I choose a simple 10 amp charger and I monitor it myself.

FWIW, I might check first, and then charge, my battery once a month when I am riding regularly. I run an "abused" PC535 (6 years old) and will probably try out a PC310 soon.
 

agua

FIshing for Stand ups
Location
Seminole, Fl
i have a battery tender but i havent been useing it because i have so much crap in my workshop i cant find anything, i use a charger that has 2 4 12 and 50 i set usually turn it on 2 or 4 and leave it on for acouple hours. ill check the battery with the meter like you said today
 

Cannibal

Tasty Human
Location
Summit Lake, WA
You can go out and spend $60-$300 for an AGM charger that has the correct algorithm (the difference is usually the amperage and the sophistication of the software).

True, but that $300 charger with sophisticated software is going to monitor voltage and amperage, and have a much more sophisticated algorithm than a cheaper $60 AGM compatible charger. Does that mean that I'm going to run out and buy a $300 charger for my $75 battery, no but if I were maintaining a fleet of Odyssey batteries for a race team, I surely would.

AGM batterys will perform better (longer life) when charged with high current (amps, not necessarily voltage). Higher currents will break up the sulphate crystals better than low current chargers.

Maybe, I'm no expert, but I do know there is a lot more to charging an AGM than just high current or high voltage.

Half amp "maintainers" flat out suck. The "Jetworks" battery tender is the "Battery Tender" brand.

I know the Jetworks one looks like the Battery Tender brand, I don't know if they have them manufactured a bit different for their application or not. Could easily be a re-badged Battery Tender.

...but I prefer higher amperage charge rate which is why I choose a simple 10 amp charger and I monitor it myself.

Here's where the algorithm comes in. You can not duplicate an algorithm by monitoring it yourself. The algorithm is what determines charge amperage, voltage and time. I found a couple graphs that represent standard lead acid and AGM charging algorithm. You can see that there are differences that a human would need some good equipment to duplicate.
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AtomicPunk

Lifetime bans are AWESOME
Site Supporter
Location
Largo, Fl
True, but that $300 charger with sophisticated software is going to monitor voltage and amperage, and have a much more sophisticated algorithm than a cheaper $60 AGM compatible charger. Does that mean that I'm going to run out and buy a $300 charger for my $75 battery, no but if I were maintaining a fleet of Odyssey batteries for a race team, I surely would.

Agreed, but not too many Race teams on here (or anyone using fleets of batteries I imagine).

Maybe, I'm no expert, but I do know there is a lot more to charging an AGM than just high current or high voltage.

I won't claim to be an expert (at anything), but the company I work for sells over $million a year (at wholesale pricing) of AGM batteries to a very "abusive" industry.

The PC535 I run was a test sample we abused for a couple years and left on the shelf (depleted). Then I got back into skiing a couple years ago and I pilfered it. The thing works great (using my rusty Sears charger).


I know the Jetworks one looks like the Battery Tender brand, I don't know if they have them manufactured a bit different for their application or not. Could easily be a re-badged Battery Tender.
I promise you it is the exact same one (looking at his website it is not even re-badged). My only problem with the small Battery Tender is people want to think they can plug it in an just leave it. I have seen good ones (like the Battery Tender brand) kill batteries that just sit there connected and never get used.

Here's where the algorithm comes in. You can not duplicate an algorithm by monitoring it yourself. The algorithm is what determines charge amperage, voltage and time. I found a couple graphs that represent standard lead acid and AGM charging algorithm. You can see that there are differences that a human would need some good equipment to duplicate.

I won't argue the graphs, the chargers that use that algorithm are excellent!! They provide the "ultimate" method for charging AGM batteries. I have taken some of the really "abused" AGMs and used the the $300 conditioner to revive the battery and put it back into service. They work great when necessary.

For the average person that probably already has a charger, they can use it with a little know-how. Typically by measuring the resting voltage and charging for the appropriate time/amperage usually listed in the manual (i.e. 10 amps for 1 hour).

I think the Odyssey bashing that goes on here is probably the result of some failed batteries that have not been maintained properly. Should they be more durable? Probably. Hopefully some of this will help. I can count on 1 hand how many "defective" batteries we have sold.
 
My digital charger when selected to AGM mode cycles the volts up and down from 12.9 volts to gradually higher, off and on up to 14.9 volts...I believe temperature control while charging is important w/ agm's ...
 

Cannibal

Tasty Human
Location
Summit Lake, WA
I promise you it is the exact same one (looking at his website it is not even re-badged). My only problem with the small Battery Tender is people want to think they can plug it in an just leave it. I have seen good ones (like the Battery Tender brand) kill batteries that just sit there connected and never get used.

Haha, been a while since I've even looked at that page. I just knew they sold one for their batteries and it was a small box with rounded edges. Funny, not even a re-badge.
 
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