TBM cones with OEM pumps and hookers

[Pablo]

I didn't want to muddy up Matt E's thread about mag pumps. I however do qualify as a "poor man's mag pump" customer. I'm never gonna dump big wads of cash in my ski, but would be interested in any gain I can get with my stock pump.

I'm interested in anyone who's running a stock pump and possibly a Hooker prop with a TBM. Did you notice any gains and was it difficult to get the right combo of prop/cone/etc?

I've got a 9/15 Hooker with a stock pump that CPWatercraft ported. I'm currently running a 760 flat top, ported cylinder and cases, OEM 44's, 35 domes, bored Bpipe, and TL. Engine hits pretty nice with stock Ebox and have upgraded to TL for this season. I did have trouble with cavitation and poor hookup at times with my current setup. If a TBM added to my current prop would help I'd defin be interested. All reviews seem to be hit or miss. I need an apples to apples type comparison.

 

[Foximus]

I love it love it love it.


Its the only way I can get my boat to stay hooked up. Id say if your going in the surf it is a MUST.

HOWEVER. that being said I mostly do flatwater, and I believe that unless your running more than a OE bore/stroke, that the hooker impeller has to much hook, and are better off with something that will spin quicker on the bottom end. Because seriously, the way Dave sets up the hooker with his aggressive root angles, and setbacks, they really do bite all over. On my hull, I can be in a full flat slide, stab the trottle and have the rear end just suck down and STICK. If you watch my river riding videos you can see how quickly I can slide and then stick back to a line. So here it is really adventageous. But if your trying to go for a flat water roll... might need something that lets loose a bit more.

Over a long disscussion Ive been recommended to go to the steeper, yet less efficient SXR prop (I'm running the hooker 9/17 now) which is a "13/18". Without the setback and a shallower blade entry angle it spins up quicker and lets the motor "get on the pipe" quicker.


But then again, if your in the ocean, this does not apply.

 

[McDog]

Pablo is scared of saltwater. So this is a flatwater thread.

 

[Waternut]

I'm very interested to hear more on this topic since I've been debating the TBM cone for over a year now. However, the hooker has the large hub that would transition smoothly to the TBM cone while a standard hub would have a lip to go over. Just a thought...

I don't have any experience with mag pumps or TBM cones. The hooker impeller does just snag the water though and I really didn't notice any hook up differences between lake riding and my time in the white wash in the ocean.

 

[Pablo]

Pablo is scared of saltwater. So this is a flatwater thread.

and you know this man.......salt is bad, bad, bad. fresh water for me and my ski. i'd love salt h2o if I could ride your ski. and then, salt with the cold weather of Daytona....fahhhget about it!

 

[Pablo]

Pablo is scared of saltwater. So this is a flatwater thread.

Even though my cold weather Man-gina rears its head pretty early I still rode later into the season than some people. I'm gonna try to be brave in March (prolly b late March).

 

[orangefinger]

I have been running both identical SN's with worx rideplate and intake identical

760 Ported with 10/16 Hooker oem pump with stubby cone and
771 Ported With 11/17 Hooker oem Pump with stubby cone

For comparision I wanted to try a TBM with a 12/17 but so far no funds released

As for performance and hook up I think the 10/16 loads the pump too much from the beginning ..its sounds weird but i dont know how to explain
The 11/17 seems to be spot on for the 771 and I assume it will work great with the 760 application

I also was contemplating to replace the stubby cone with a bored nozzle to see how this will affect the performance

 

[Foximus]

(orange... be sure to check my thread in a few days.... I want you to see my new nose)

 

[Big Kahuna]

I love it love it love it.


Its the only way I can get my boat to stay hooked up. Id say if your going in the surf it is a MUST.

HOWEVER. that being said I mostly do flatwater, and I believe that unless your running more than a OE bore/stroke, that the hooker impeller has to much hook, and are better off with something that will spin quicker on the bottom end. Because seriously, the way Dave sets up the hooker with his aggressive root angles, and setbacks, they really do bite all over. On my hull, I can be in a full flat slide, stab the trottle and have the rear end just suck down and STICK. If you watch my river riding videos you can see how quickly I can slide and then stick back to a line. So here it is really adventageous. But if your trying to go for a flat water roll... might need something that lets loose a bit more.

Over a long disscussion Ive been recommended to go to the steeper, yet less efficient SXR prop (I'm running the hooker 9/17 now) which is a "13/18". Without the setback and a shallower blade entry angle it spins up quicker and lets the motor "get on the pipe" quicker.


But then again, if your in the ocean, this does not apply.

Fox, my rolls got better when I added my Hooker. Not sure where your info is coming from as far as this goes. If your not getting power out then your not going to get rotation. Also, this prop does not "suck you to the water" to where you cannot roll. What it does do is when you hit the water after your roll, if you do not land on the plate with enough mommentum, normally you will stall out some until you can get going again, the Hooker grabs as soon as it hits the water and pulls you up.

 

[Big Kahuna]

I didn't want to muddy up Matt E's thread about mag pumps. I however do qualify as a "poor man's mag pump" customer. I'm never gonna dump big wads of cash in my ski, but would be interested in any gain I can get with my stock pump.

I'm interested in anyone who's running a stock pump and possibly a Hooker prop with a TBM. Did you notice any gains and was it difficult to get the right combo of prop/cone/etc?

I've got a 9/15 Hooker with a stock pump that CPWatercraft ported. I'm currently running a 760 flat top, ported cylinder and cases, OEM 44's, 35 domes, bored Bpipe, and TL. Engine hits pretty nice with stock Ebox and have upgraded to TL for this season. I did have trouble with cavitation and poor hookup at times with my current setup. If a TBM added to my current prop would help I'd defin be interested. All reviews seem to be hit or miss. I need an apples to apples type comparison.

By adding a pump cone you are changing the tuning of your pump. Your 9/15 hooker may or may not work with your setup, you may need to go up or down on your pitch.

Installing a Mag pump is kinda like installing aftermarket carbs you got to jet it for your application, in this sense it is finding the correct prop & pitch for your motor setup. Each setup is different.

 

[Foximus]

Though I am running a 140 mm, and from what I understand, the TBM's behave very differently in both pumps... But yes I agree, I deffinately could not roll before the hooker with a normal small hub impeller. But, that is not to say that I couldnt benifit from something that spins up faster and doesn't lock to the water quite so immediately.

 

[Big Kahuna]

Something to consider is your running a one off setup. Anything that works for you may not work on others, and anything that normally works for others may not work for you.

 

[SUPERJET-113]

Here's some good reading from a thread I started a year and a half ago about the TBM Super pump cone:
http://www.x-h2o.com/threads/40448

 

[masterblaster]

theres no such thing as too much hook for a prop,you might be over pitched and not getting on the pipe soon enough,so drop in pitch,and still have all the hook you can get.

orange. you would get worse results putting the higher pitch hooker on the 760,without knowing your motors specifics,I would guess its making less power down low than the 771 flat topper and you would do better to try a 9/15 with a stubby or bored nozzle or both to get it on the pipe faster,it has higher port timing than the 771 to start with.

I run a 10/16 hooker on a ported stock pump with a 85.5 nozzle with a 830 cc stroker and it hooks up great,I wouldnt run a tbm until you try the hooker by itself first with the right size nozzle,your going to have to make some big power to cav a 11/17 or higher pitched hooker

 

[steve-uk]

well i just ordered one to put on a stock oem pump, be running it with my ss865 and a skat 14/19 prop (as per pats advice) so once the lakes thaw ill let you know!

 

[orangefinger]

orange. you would get worse results putting the higher pitch hooker on the 760,without knowing your motors specifics,I would guess its making less power down low than the 771 flat topper and you would do better to try a 9/15 with a stubby or bored nozzle or both to get it on the pipe faster,it has higher port timing than the 771 to start with.

You are right...its difficult for me to explain I need to utilize a 9/15 on the 760 I had the feeling the pump was getting to full to fast and slowing down the process...

I would like to try a TBM with the 12/17 on the 771 though

 

[Big Kahuna]

Dave told me to go with the 10-16 for my 84mm big bore, I thought he was crazy because all I had been seeing is 9/15's on peoples lameys.

Mine does pull the prop well, I may try a stubby cone to see if I can get a bit more grab right off the bottom. That is the only place the prop feels a bit steep.

 

[orangefinger]

Thats what dave told me too...I yet have to try a bored nozzle instead of the stubby that might make a difference

 

[Pablo]

By adding a pump cone you are changing the tuning of your pump. Your 9/15 hooker may or may not work with your setup, you may need to go up or down on your pitch.

Installing a Mag pump is kinda like installing aftermarket carbs you got to jet it for your application, in this sense it is finding the correct prop & pitch for your motor setup. Each setup is different.

BK,

i forgot to add i'm also using a 85mm bored nozzle as well. I'm agree with you that I'll have to do some tinkering with the setup if I go with a TBM. I've gone up with engine size/performance, changed from stock oem pump to "ported" pump and may or may not use the TBM. I currently don't use a stubby cone though. I have yet to determine if this prop is pitched too low for my setup. I'm gonna pull the pump this winter and reset the shoe. I'm afraid some of my cavitation issues are from the shoe and my chitty install with regular silicone rather than too low prop pitch. I'd like to find a way to narrow down if I need to go up with prop pitch from 9/15 to 10/17, but have no concrete way to know without trying one and then using the TBM with each. I'm open to all "seat of pants" impressions though. I hate spending moolah on mods that waste not only money but precious time as well. Turning wrenches makes me want to puke.

 

[OCD Solutions]

While we are talking about pump tuning, what are the effects of impeller shimming? Pat was talking about adding shims to the pump and being able to affect rpm's. If I understood him correctly, one could possibly make up for an under/over pitched impeller.?.?.?