Setback pumps?

[Ryan Declark]

As I know virtually nothing about pumps I was wondering if anyone had a good thread on pumps.

I'm ready to pull the trigger on a nice 155 pump and I'm not sure what the pros and cons are of standard/setback, more/less veins, and manufacturers.

Engine wise I will be running a stock 701. (maybe some porting and head with pipe, depends on what bolt-ons cost VS just saving for 964)

Also I'm not sure what trim system to attach to it as it seems alot of manufacturers make trim systems.

 

[Diametunim]

Full disclosure, I know very little so I'm here to learn as well but I can tell you about setback pumps and trim. Setback pumps are exactly what they sound like. The pump stator in a setback pump is further "set-back" in the pump housing when compared to a traditional pump. Moving the pump stator further back in the housing allows more water to sit in the intake tract and pump tunnel and ultimately provides the pump with more water to move.

A setback pump will provide you with better hookup, and increased time producing thrust out when your pump is out of the water.

Now, my experience comes from putting a Torrent 148mm setback pump in my Superjet which I have paired with a fully built 718cc 61X/62T motor. Changing the pump from OEM 144mm to Torrent 148mm setback was a night and day difference in hookup on the ski. I don't know that I would consider it a must have on a Superjet when considering the total cost of install (pump, driveshaft, impeller...etc) but the opportunity arose and I have pretty much everything you can do done to my Superjet (with the exception of more cc's) so I pulled the trigger.

In my opinion if you're building a new ski for flatwater freestyle it's a no brainer that you want a setback pump.

Someone else will need to chime in here but you specifically mention picking up a 155 to pair with a stock 701. You may find that a stock 701 will not push enough water to fully utilize the 155 which will ultimately lead to worse performance until you pair it with a motor that can really move water. Also you're very likely going to need to buy another impeller or have someone seriously re-pitch your impeller once you move to big power, so keep that in mind.

Trim systems are easy. The go-to bang for your buck is the "OG" X-Scream Trim System and it is the defacto budget trim system as its simple, provides good trim, and little blow-by when paired with a B-Pipe Silicone Coupler. If you want to be fancy fancy both X-Scream and Pitch Components make a kickass billet trim system that will make you drool and either would be a great choice.

 

[Ryan Declark]

Full disclosure, I know very little so I'm here to learn as well but I can tell you about setback pumps and trim. Setback pumps are exactly what they sound like. The pump stator in a setback pump is further "set-back" in the pump housing when compared to a traditional pump. Moving the pump stator further back in the housing allows more water to sit in the intake tract and pump tunnel and ultimately provides the pump with more water to move.

A setback pump will provide you with better hookup, and increased time producing thrust out when your pump is out of the water.

Now, my experience comes from putting a Torrent 148mm setback pump in my Superjet which I have paired with a fully built 718cc 61X/62T motor. Changing the pump from OEM 144mm to Torrent 148mm setback was a night and day difference in hookup on the ski. I don't know that I would consider it a must have on a Superjet when considering the total cost of install (pump, driveshaft, impeller...etc) but the opportunity arose and I have pretty much everything you can do done to my Superjet (with the exception of more cc's) so I pulled the trigger.

In my opinion if you're building a new ski for flatwater freestyle it's a no brainer that you want a setback pump.

Someone else will need to chime in here but you specifically mention picking up a 155 to pair with a stock 701. You may find that a stock 701 will not push enough water to fully utilize the 155 which will ultimately lead to worse performance until you pair it with a motor that can really move water. Also you're very likely going to need to buy another impeller or have someone seriously re-pitch your impeller once you move to big power, so keep that in mind.

Trim systems are easy. The go-to bang for your buck is the "OG" X-Scream Trim System and it is the defacto budget trim system as its simple, provides good trim, and little blow-by when paired with a B-Pipe Silicone Coupler. If you want to be fancy fancy both X-Scream and Pitch Components make a kickass billet trim system that will make you drool and either would be a great choice.

Super helpful, thanks. Unfortunately I might have to bite the bullet and buy a stock 155 pump for now then. I was hoping that the setback pump would have little to no effect on performance but I also I figured that was a likely possibility.

 

[800750]

What hull and type of riding do you plan to do

 

[Ryan Declark]

50/50 surf/boat chasing. Tigercraft v3

 

[brapperdoodle]

Now, my experience comes from putting a Torrent 148mm setback pump in my Superjet which I have paired with a fully built 718cc 61X/62T motor. Changing the pump from OEM 144mm to Torrent 148mm setback was a night and day difference in hookup on the ski.

Just out of curiosity, do you know what impeller pitch you are running?

 

[bkspeedwerks]

for the money the thrustone shredder 155 is a great pump. i have it in my v3 boat chaser/ surf ski. it definitely hooks up in the foam in the surf alot better then an oem 155. i also like the wear ring is actually a full wear ring to some of the other 2 piece setback pumps where the prop is halfway into the stator section.

also there is alot more options for 155 trims then 144/148

 

[Half flip95]

to me, the “set back” feature makes the rear of ski feel more stuck to the water. Harder for it to break loose because it’s taken a larger scoop of water (both handling wise and power delivery wise).

The “mag” big hub helps keep the prop from slipping under hard acceleration

 

[Ryan Declark]

Just out of curiosity, do you know what impeller pitch you are running?

Negative, I'm starting with nothing aside from the hull and a few parts iv acquired from the wave raiders. I'm likely gonna have the shaft remade into what I need and props won't work as I would like to start at a 155 pump. So I'll have to get a prop

 

[Ryan Declark]

to me, the “set back” feature makes the rear of ski feel more stuck to the water. Harder for it to break loose because it’s taken a larger scoop of water (both handling wise and power delivery wise).

The “mag” big hub helps keep the prop from slipping under hard acceleration

Okay that makes sense. That's rad. It sounds like that's what I want.

 

[Ryan Declark]

for the money the thrustone shredder 155 is a great pump. i have it in my v3 boat chaser/ surf ski. it definitely hooks up in the foam in the surf alot better then an oem 155. i also like the wear ring is actually a full wear ring to some of the other 2 piece setback pumps where the prop is halfway into the stator section.

also there is alot more options for 155 trims then 144/148

Have you had any experience with the push 155? I believe they are around the same price and they apparently make good pump shoes? I agree. Iv looked at a few of these pumps and that thrustone pump looks like good quality for the money.

Also, everyone on this site seems to recommend the xscream trim. Unless there is another system that would be 10x better I don't see I wouldn't go with that trim system. From my understanding at this point it's Lexus of the trim systems. Lexus being nice and reliable but not a ferrari/lambo nice.

 

[fastgtfairlane]

One of my buddies has a jm 701 in his v3 with a oem 155 pump. You'll want either a 5/9 or a 6/12 with a 701. Wouldn't hurt to bore the outlet nozzle. There are many variables that go into proper pump tuning. The v3 is a super loose handling ski so the 155 should help with that a little depending on your setup. A 701 will have a hard time pushing a 155 mag pump so I'd leave that out for now until you get a 900+ cc engine.

 

[bkspeedwerks]

Have you had any experience with the push 155? I believe they are around the same price and they apparently make good pump shoes? I agree. Iv looked at a few of these pumps and that thrustone pump looks like good quality for the money.

Also, everyone on this site seems to recommend the xscream trim. Unless there is another system that would be 10x better I don't see I wouldn't go with that trim system. From my understanding at this point it's Lexus of the trim systems. Lexus being nice and reliable but not a ferrari/lambo nice.

i have heard good things performance wise on push but never have run one. i would be nervous with a full aluminum stator in a surf situation where it is easy to send debris through the pump

 

[fastgtfairlane]

I have an all aluminum kavinci 148 mag pump in my freak and ride in surf often. It's not been an issue for me.

 

[Ryan Declark]

i have heard good things performance wise on push but never have run one. i would be nervous with a full aluminum stator in a surf situation where it is easy to send debris through the pump

Good point. Okay so thrustone it is.

 

[Ryan Declark]

One of my buddies has a jm 701 in his v3 with a oem 155 pump. You'll want either a 5/9 or a 6/12 with a 701. Wouldn't hurt to bore the outlet nozzle. There are many variables that go into proper pump tuning. The v3 is a super loose handling ski so the 155 should help with that a little depending on your setup. A 701 will have a hard time pushing a 155 mag pump so I'd leave that out for now until you get a 900+ cc engine.

Damn. All roads point to me just pulling the trigger on an engine first and it bums me out because I dont want to buy 2 times.

 

[Half flip95]

to me, the “set back” feature makes the rear of ski feel more stuck to the water. Harder for it to break loose because the ski is holding on to a larger scoop of water

The “mag” big hub helps keep the prop from slipping under hard acceleration.

 

[97superjet]

I have a 900R xscream motor pushing a 155 oem pump... would a setback mag process the water better, absolutely. Is it necessary out the gate, no.

 

[DylanS]

155 oem pumps are cheap and work well. You can prop for a piped 701 fairly easy infact the hardest part is finding the prop for sale. You will have room to grow with it engine wise. I’m pushing a 10/12 in a 155 skat setback mag on a stock stroke 781 right now.
If you find a cheap mag pump buy it. You won’t regret it at all. Then you’ll be set to grow for the foreseeable future. If you find a cheap oem pump buy it and offload it in the future when you get your 964.
Would I run a mag pump on a stock 701? No. Would I run one on a high comp piped 701? Yeah.
Focus on alllll the goodies that make the shortblock bite first then when you’re ready pop a bigger displacement block in and send it.
I’ve pulled all the parts off my 1200 and put them right onto my 781 changed the prop and it runs great.

 

[Ryan Declark]

155 oem pumps are cheap and work well. You can prop for a piped 701 fairly easy infact the hardest part is finding the prop for sale. You will have room to grow with it engine wise. I’m pushing a 10/12 in a 155 skat setback mag on a stock stroke 781 right now.
If you find a cheap mag pump buy it. You won’t regret it at all. Then you’ll be set to grow for the foreseeable future. If you find a cheap oem pump buy it and offload it in the future when you get your 964.
Would I run a mag pump on a stock 701? No. Would I run one on a high comp piped 701? Yeah.
Focus on alllll the goodies that make the shortblock bite first then when you’re ready pop a bigger displacement block in and send it.
I’ve pulled all the parts off my 1200 and put them right onto my 781 changed the prop and it runs great.

What's a cheap mag pump in your opinion? Also what should I be looking for when buying pumps aside from the corrosion.
I feel like I'm asking dumb questions but I really don't know too much about all this.