Freestyle Raider nozzle taper vs. SJ nozzle taper

SJBrit

Extraordinary Alien
Location
Bradenton, FL
A bunch of people use Raider nozzles for their trim system, and others weld bosses to their SJ nozzles to take the trim ring. The Raider nozzle is an easy, bolt-on option, but the taper is not the same as the SJ reduction nozzle. I've never really heard a good discussion about what the different tapers are for, and whether the Raider nozzle causes any kind of performance issue on a Superjet.

Anybody?
 

SUPERJET-113

GASKETS FOR CHAMP BRAP!
Site Supporter
I used the SJ pump nozzle and welded tabs on it because you can get more throw that using the raider pump nozzle. A bit more work but worth it.

I dont know all the physics involved and which pump nozzle would be better, but i figured the SJ one was designed for the SJ, so that was another reason why I went with welding and tapping tabs for the trim ring.
 

GIL

Power In The Hands Of Few
Location
Cullman AL
I am not really answering your question here, but can provide a point of reference.

My ski has the raider nozzle setup on it from Brian at Thrust and I had the raider exit nozzle bored to 85mm by Tricky. Like I said, not much help but you rode my ski a few weeks ago to give you some idea on my pump setup.
 

SJBrit

Extraordinary Alien
Location
Bradenton, FL
I used the SJ pump nozzle and welded tabs on it because you can get more throw that using the raider pump nozzle. A bit more work but worth it.

I dont know all the physics involved and which pump nozzle would be better, but i figured the SJ one was designed for the SJ, so that was another reason why I went with welding and tapping tabs for the trim ring.

That's exactly what I did and why I did it. I've seen a few WTB posts recently about Raider nozzles so I thought I'd bring this up to shed some light: it sure is easier just to bolt on the Raider part if you don't want to go for the extra throw. But I was like you: if Yamaha spent the money to design and tool a different nozzle, there must have been a good reason.
 

Boris

The Good Old Days
I used the SJ pump nozzle and welded tabs on it because you can get more throw that using the raider pump nozzle. A bit more work but worth it.

I dont know all the physics involved and which pump nozzle would be better, but i figured the SJ one was designed for the SJ, so that was another reason why I went with welding and tapping tabs for the trim ring.


More trim or steering throw ?
 

Aircraftsalz

Thrust built Dasa Power
Location
Off site
Also me and Lucas are running the GP800 reduction nozzle 65u... Bored

It has a 6 deg + built into the reduction nozzle, little different shape, seems to work great with big HP motors.

I have also used the Pro Tec maxi flow with great results.
 

#ZERO

Beach Bum
Location
Florida - U.S.A.
I'm sure each reduction nozzle that Yamaha develops is specifically engineered for their skis by the engine power to weight ratio, pump size, impeller type & pitch, hull design, top speed, drag etc. Most of their jet-ski's with smaller displacement engines that weigh less use the steeper 25.5-degree reduction nozzle angles with varying nozzle exit tip angles. While the bigger ski's that weigh more with the larger engine displacements use the 21-degree reduction nozzle angle with different nozzle exit angles and sizes. Even some of their reduction nozzles use a bowl shape design with the nozzle exit angled upwards.

The basic reduction nozzle rules are; the larger the nozzle exit diameter, the greater the volume of water you can move. This is great for a freestyle bottom end and hole shots but the problem is that sometimes you do not have the proper exit velocity for top speed. The smaller the nozzle exit diameter, the greater the velocity of the water exiting, the better the top speed. The problem is that sometimes there is not enough volume of water to get the ski to top speed. It takes a blend of the two that gets both hole shot and top speed. If you have two different exit sizes or angles to compare, then one is more than likely better than the other and it takes testing to find out what works best with your setup.

Your hull can travel at radically different angles at different speeds depending on your ride plate, venturi angle and even how you're positioned on the ski. The steeper nozzle exit angles of 3.5-degrees or more will lighten the nose of the craft and may add top speed. While the shallower nozzle exit angles of 2.5-degrees or less will deliver improved performance in rough water conditions by producing more nose pressure to drive the hull through the bumps which is perfect for closed coarse and offshore competition race boats. Also a ski traveling at an angle of 2-degrees does not bring in the same amount of water into the intake tunnel as a ski traveling at 5-degrees at real high speeds. The faster the ski travels the greater its tendency to run flatter and use a smaller venturi. If you continue to try to run at 5-degrees, then you're going to run into the pump over stuffing problem and a bigger diameter venturi may be just what you need to process that extra volume of water coming into the intake. All these things need to be taken into consideration when using other reduction nozzles types with different angles and exit diameters.

Reduction Nozzles.jpg
 

#ZERO

Beach Bum
Location
Florida - U.S.A.
More trim or steering throw ?
The steeper angle of the Raider reduction nozzle cause interference problems with the trim bracket and welding the new trim pivot points back further on the nozzle tip increases the travel distance. It also allows the use of different reduction nozzle models that don't necessarily have the trim option.
 

munki63

Epoxy is my duct tape
Location
Canada
So if I wanted to use the nozzle that came off my RN could i just weld two nuts on the side of the nozzle? If I can anybody know the thread off hand I would be looking for?
 

RiverRat

.......
Location
Louisville, Ky
One of the best nozzles is the skat reduction nozzle. It is the most efficient design but limits trim movement. Might be able to modify it to give more throw.
 

RiverRat

.......
Location
Louisville, Ky
They are listed under pump accesories and there is a product diagram that explains what makes it better. I would post the link but I can't copy and paste things from my phone.
 

munki63

Epoxy is my duct tape
Location
Canada
looks like you need to use there trim set-up I already have a trim set-up, and a bored 61x and a stock 62t nozzle, of the two what would be the better set-up?
 

RiverRat

.......
Location
Louisville, Ky
I don't really think it matters that much for freestyle. The bore diameter is the main factor to use for tuning. I have run them all and did not notice a difference between them. Whatever allows your trim to work best is the one I would go with.
 
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