Super Jet Epic VS MSD spark strength thread...

[retroicon]

So I remember a thread where it was mentioned that the MSD total loss system provides a stronger spark over the Epic because the MSD uses a non-stock coil...

I'm wondering, why not just move to a hotter spark, or a different type of plugs? Wouldn't that accomplish the same kind of thing?

-G

 

[jetpilot36]

im not 100 percent sure,but i believe the msd coil puts out a spark with more voltage.thus resulting in a hotter more powerful spark then te stock one.

 

[Matt_E]

More voltage only means it can jump a bigger gap, not necessarily that it has more energy and is hotter.
The spark only gets hotter if there is more energy.

 

[Proformance1]

Also, FYI Epic, not Flame is not total loss, os in reality they use the same coil. Im not sure there is any difference in the spark between Epic and MSD enhancer??? Comments??

 

[Freakrider]

The MSD's claim is it puts out 50,000 volts and once you see and hear the spark it produces you believe it...The system is reported to have the ability to fire fouled plugs...This much voltage becomes an issue in saltwater IF you don't have it protected properly...

 

[QJS]

You need to compare apples for apples, Epic is not total loss, it relies on the stator for its power. Flame and MSD are total loss and generate there own higher spark energy and voltage.
As a side note the MSD total loss I measured didn't come close to 50 000 volts although I can't vouch for the accuracy of the equipment used.
Chris.

 

[Aircraftsalz]

You can't compare MSD TL to EPIC....

Now if your looking at the ATP Flame vs the MSD TL, MSD TL Has more (Hotter) spark, makes more power... I tested the FLAME & MSD back to Back on the same motor, same everything.... Night & Day you can't compare the two...

Now if you ride saltwater the ATP flame is the way to go since its in the oem e box. I ran the Flame for 1 yr so I know how it works

Epic vs MSD Enh... Yes your motor will make more power with the EPIC, Spark is the same between both by visual.. but to date I dont have one buddy that has one that runs perfect every time... 2 buddies have XS865's, running Epic's, had start issues, fighting itself to start, etc. Both have blown motors (OEM CRANKS failed, low time motor)

Hard to beat the MSD Enh, advance the stator 2-3 deg & it hits hard, starts & runs every time, no hard starts....

The problem with our sport is you never see true reports... First true ride report I seen on a hull was Ross on the Bob... I guess I'll be the dick here & make this post

Chris is a great guy to deal with, I think in due time all the bugs will be worked out in the Epic/Flame..

 

[QJS]

Got to correct you there Josh, the MSD did have a hotter spark as with your unit but not now.
Chris.

 

[Aircraftsalz]

Got to correct you there Josh, the MSD did have a hotter spark as with your unit but not now.
Chris.

Would love to see how the new system performs back to back. We tested the old system back to back at Lake Thrust

Hard to see the oem coil working better than MSD Dual coil setup with dual pickups... I would think if your firing a oem coil with increase engry (Single pickup) its getting worked very hard & life span would be reduced. Right or Wrong?

How about the starting issues or cutting out?

My Biggest problem with the Flame was cutting out & getting launched over the bars.. My chin still has the mark from hitting the pole... I thought it was funny until it happen to me

Guy down south has the Flame, installed by XS... He has to start the ski on one curve, switch to another curve to ride the ski. If it quits or he stops, he has to repeat those steps to restart the ski.. He also has the same problem I had with the ski runs perfect one ride (Start), next ride ski wont run right, next tank ski runs perfect...

Like I said Chris I know your working on these issues & give it more time with guys helping with input & R&D will speed up things to correct these issues.

I just hope guys buying these understand its a A/M part that might need some work over time to be perfect & could have issues... Some guys working on these ski's have no clue & should leave the tool box alone...

 

[Freakrider]

Josh in what way did those low hour oem cranks fail...bearings or ? just wondering...

 

[Schmidty721]

I'm running the EPIC and had some of the cutting out / stalling issues at the beginning of the season. I also had a weird mid range hesitation I couldn't tune out. I re-did my power & ground cables and swapped out my stock coil and wires for a JSS unit. I haven't had the ski kill once since these changes and it's run spot on ever since. Just my $.02

 

[steve-uk]

ive been running TL for the first time, im running the flame, hasnt missed beat and my 718cc motor is hitting hard, i have the latest generation of flame which from my understanding has hotter spark energy than MSD and is about 50% hotter than the previous flame (Chris please feel free to jump in and correct me if im wrong)

I have also done some things to the flame that should have meant i blew it up! connected the battery the wrong way, loose plug caps, had my stator cables touching the crank and ran the ignition with no curve selected... she is still going strong and being able to load a new curve in about 20 seconds from deciding to do it to being done is HUGE

the EPIC may not be as forgiving as the stock cdi units as it seems it can highlight some weak point you have in your system, to date i have sold 20+ epics without a single EPIC failure

when there have been reports of "problems" after installation each time its been something else, eg bad coil, carb tunning etc

having all of the electrical system inside the stock ebox makes sense to me which is why i never ran MSD previously, i dont understand how having all your electrics open to water intrusion is good?

 

[Aircraftsalz]

Steve I'm calling you out bro... Lucas rode your ski at Wave daze... You told him my flame is good to go...

Your ski cut out just like mine!

But nice try bro...

 

[Matt_E]

I'm not having the cutting out issue....just the annoying 10V deal

 

[keith t]

I run the last generation (two curves) ATP total loss on my 865 screamer - my brother runs the first gen (single curve) ATP total loss on his 865 screamer, nothing but great reports from this side of the pond. That said we do have them snug inside IP68 waterproof enclosures, every joint is soldered, and heat sealed/shrunk as well, absolutely tip top installation.

We also run them in the salt with zero issues.

 

[munki63]

My buddy and I each have an Epic, Mine cut out randomly for the first time last weekend, Its only been once, might have been something else but I haven't had any hard starts or electrical issues what so ever other then tat one time, My buddies epic not so much, ski is painful to start and randomly bogs down, all his electronics are brand new JSS, this issue also started last weekend, everything on both skis are bran new.

So Chris have you found the problem? Will there be another flash upgrade? I'm just wondering whats going to happen next

 

[Pablo]

I've run two epics. Prolly 18 months or more on the first and the second was this summer. I had zero issues with the first and ran a single curve from Art Gomez. I never touched the thing other than to install it. It really lit up my Dasa BB 760. The second has been good to go since I got it installed. I had it recently highlight a bad S/S switch, but that was a good thing since my ski was willing to keep running after I fell off and the lanyard became disconnected. I do miss the zip of TL when I ride my buds skis that have a TL system...for the most part though the Epic makes the msd enhancer a waste IMO. The epic is programmable thereby making it able to run ur engine more TL-like, it tucks into ur ebox for protection and chris/ATP have great customer support. If I could stomach the cost of a gen 2 TBM flywheel I'd like to see how close to TL u could run it. My lightened stock flywheel works well but less mass would be nice.
Back to OP. The MSD TL will def make a hotter spark over the Epic but don't know about the Flame gen1 or2.

 

[Pablo]

I never have had hard start issues with the epic.

 

[Waveblaster785]

Well I'll chime in with something totally different and a little old school. My JSS coil failed after about half or three quarters of a season so I went a different way. I didn't want a stock coil or another JSS and my MSD TL brain failed last year. I bought an enhancer and it failed in one tank. No thanks.

I'm running an Advent with Mercury V6 outboard coils and Accel wires. Thus far I'm impressed with the setup. I need to do some tuning but the spark is strong, visibly better than my JSS and the snap in comparison to my old setup isnt even comparable.

 

[retroicon]

damn it... I meant the Flame, vs the MSD TL...

This thread got all off track. Damn it..

-G