Super Jet stator and e.p.i.c.

[Tyler Zane]

i just want a few opinions on whether or not i should go ahead and get the stator on my 04' sj checked out by jss. i have seen all the problems with the e.p.i.c. and it seems like a lot of the time its a weak stator. i would hate for this to be the weak link on a ski that is getting completely redone...

 

[waterfreak]

not all problems with the epic is related to the stator. I think Cris (at atp) got it figured out by now though!
Hopefully I'll get my stator and epic back soon!

 

[Tyler Zane]

ya that reminds me, i gotta make sure Art at jetworks has all the updates on mine before he ships it out.

 

[wayne]

my epic needs the update. now i have to buy the software kit or the cable so my epic works. i switched back to my 62t cdi and my ski runs great. with the epic it was trying to backfire. sucks to spend over 400 on a cdi and now have to spend another chunk just to make it work correctly. if i knew i was getting a cdi that needed to have an update i would have not spent the money. my 400 plus cdi is not going to cost me over 500. i think the computer cable should be free with the epic for reasons like this. if it needs to be reflashed because of a bad program then the cable should have come with the cdi, not the software kit. i can't even get an answer from atp to find out if i can buy the cable from a local computer store instead of ordering the entire software kit for 80.50 shipped. i don't need the software as i don't want to end up screwing up my engine, but the cable is a must to install updates or new timing curves. the original purchaser of the epic gets free curve updates, but is useless without the cable. i checked atp's site and you cannot just buy the cable so be prepared to spend the extra cash for something that should be included with the epic cdi.

 

[Matt_E]

Why couldn't you send it to ATP our an authorized retailer to have it flashed?

 

[Tyler Zane]

it might not be the e.p.i.c. as stated in the threads on this subject, this ignition will find the weakest link in your electrical system and if it isnt up to par then it will fail. the stock cdi is more forgiving.

if there is a problem with your epic im pretty sure Chris will make it right. and if you do need a re-flash, ya might want to see if someone in your area has the software/cable. there are lots of people here that would be willing to help you out.

...80 dollars is a small price to pay to be able to change your curve at any time. thats what makes this cdi capable of growing with your engine. there are way more pro's than the one con of needing a reflash imo

 

[wayne]

well, it is the point of having to pay for shipping both ways. if i send it to atp then shipping would even be more. the point is, if the cdi requires updates because it has a bad flash program then why should i have to pay to fix a manufacturing problem. if i screwed it up then i would not have a problem paying to get it fixed, but is was a bad flash program installed when i purchased it. the updates should have been installed before it was shipped.

the stator is a total rebuild from jss. all the other electronics are pretty new as i have replaced them over the last year.

chris emailed me and said that the new flash will fix the problem. i got a cdi that apparently had an old flash on it.

liked stated above, i don't want the software. i don't need it as i get free updates and curves for being the original purchaser of the cdi.

 

[Tyler Zane]

you can get all the free curves you want.. but without the software/cable you will always be dependent on someone else. buy the software/cable and never pay for shipping again to get it re-flashed with software updates or curves. my guess is that Chris will be continually improving the software anyways.

 

[QJS]

Progress

Steve- Not going into all the details just yet, but yes we will be able to offer an update in the next 7ish days and you will get an e-mail.

Wayne- We answered your e-mail, in this e-mail we did say that the lead is not available from a computer store, it is a special made specifically for us. The "software pack" is the lead, the software comes free with the lead. The lead is primarily for curves, add on mods requested by customers. The lead enables much more flexibilty and yes if need be to send flashes for bug fixes.

The original purchaser- This means you can send your unit to us for flashes or curve changes if you want to.

The EPIC is incrediably cheap for what it is, giving a free lead would increase the price to customers.

Also Wayne- Within the above timescale I should be able to confirm the root of your issue and as you've switched back to your OEM CDI , I feel it best if you can hold off buying the program lead, stator etc etc.
I am sure any of the ATP dealers over there will reflash your unit for you, it really is only a 5 minute job.
There are no "bad flashes" all of the flashes and all of the EPIC's have worked on every single ski I have personally tested. We are not trying to fix a bad flash, I know it's a pain, but please do bear with us, we want to ensure that we are 100 % in the answers we are testing out right now.
We will keep everyone posted and all will recieve e-mails too.
Chris

 

[wayne]

Hello Wayne

The software pack is available online here,
http://www.airtimeproducts.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=223 to
purchase from us. They're not available from a computer shop, in the USA
you could try X-Scream, Art @ Jetworks or Arizona Jet Ski to see if they
have any packs in stock. Our online shop will charge you for UPS Shipping
there is no option to change online this however you can add a message
during the payment that you want it shipping a cheaper way and we can ship
this by mail and refund the difference.
If you get one from a dealer in the US, let us know and we'll e-mail a
different curve for you to try , you'll just need to let us know your ski
spec.
If you have any further question please ask.


Regards
Lisa @ ATP

it states the software pack is available from atp or a u.s. dealer and not available from a computer store. when you say software pack that means the software i.e. the data program. the computer lead is not software it is a cable. so the software is free, but the cable cost 80.50 shipped. if i knew i was going to get a cdi that needed an update then i would have requested it be done before being shipped to me.

i have a new stator already installed. it was rebuilt by jss. i switched the cdi back as art requested to make sure it was not the stator. as far at the data cable goes, how can you fix my cdi if i cannot install an update without a cable? i guess i will wait to see what art says as i have emailed him with my results in regards to changing out the epic back to my stock cdi.

 

[Tyler Zane]

just for the record, im not discouraged to buy an epic by your experience. that is the reason your doing this publicly, right wayne?

no one would purposely sell you something knowing that it wasn't going to work. this is a hobby, poop happens. i still think its a reasonably priced product considering its ability to bring out the best in any motor.

 

[Polish jet pilot]

I understand some of your frustration, ut sometimes I would look in my own backayrd

I am an ATP dealer in Poland - I had problems with my EPIC (no constant spark at stat up). Verified the stator, the connections, emailed Chris and Lisa. They gave me some hints and offered a reflash. Guess what - I thought it's the EPIC that causes the problem - I finally opened the ebox and guess what - I had a shot glass of water inside... equallingh to inconsistent spark. Fixed the water leakage issue and runs like a champ.

Check everything twice before you make any assumptions.

 

[wayne]

no, i just want my epic to work without having to ship it off and be without it for a couple weeks. i have already lost two weekends due to this. i think once mine is fixed than i am going to be real happy. however, with it not working i am upset. plus having to pay for shipping back and forth or pay 80 for the cable is fustrating after spending 436 for the cdi and switch. as stated above, i have checked every thing. for one you have to take apart the ebox to put the cdi in. once i installed it it was backfiring and dieing when reving. pulled the ebox and flywheel again. timing was on, no water in ebox. put stock cdi in and it ran perfect. i have checked every thing and the only constant with the problem is the cdi. not jumping to conclusions, stating facts.

 

[Tyler Zane]

why did you lose 2 weekends? you said your self you switched right back to the stock cdi... and why would you lose more ride time if you have the stock cdi?

in conclusion you need to get it re-flashed... so instead of wasting time on here go get it mailed out. i want it to work out for you just as bad as you do. dont take anything i say personal but the time you have wasted here in the past 30+ min you could of had it mailed out already...

 

[wayne]

you do know it is sunday, right. the whole point is. the epic is plug and play. it is suppose to work out of the box. there is not a stipulation when you purchase it that if there is a bug in the software that you have to mail it back for a fix or purchase the 80 dollar cable. that is not the purchasers fault. if you buy any product and it does not work out of the box is is not the purchasers responcibility to pay to fix it. it is under warranty. so why can't they mail me a cable with a return postage so that i can fix their problem and send their cable back.

i am not trying to cause a problem, however when i purchase a product and it does not work as advertised then it should be fixed or replaced. i was not told that i had to spend more money to make it work properly. i spent 436 for a cdi that does not work as advertised. this should not have been shipped with bugs in the program. if the product is not 100% then is should not be sold until it is. if i remember correctly seadoo gets ripped for letting customers do their r&d.

 

[Tyler Zane]

ah yes sunday... im not use to that. mail goes out everyday in kuwait, my bad.

im just saying i would gladly ship it back to Art to get flashed if it meant me getting on the water faster. it would cost me less than a bar tab during happy hour.

 

[wayne]

if i have to spend the 80 dollars to make my 400 dollar cdi work than that is what i will have to do. in the future atp and their dealers need to let customers know that they should purchase the cable as they will need it or have to pay shipping every time they need a flash or new curve. don't leave the customer unhappy because they have to now purchase an 80 dollar cable to be able to use their product. this is a bad business decision IMO. the price should be 469 and include the cable. i would have purchased it at the same time if i had been told about bugs in the software. i would have already had the flash installed and up and running. now i will have to wait on the software pack or wait for it to be shipped back and forth. and if i am going to have to spend 20 to 40 for shipping back and fourth i might as well pay the eighty.

 

[Tyler Zane]

agreed, i guess i was already aware of the situation because i have been following the reviews on a few threads here on the x.

 

[QJS]

Further

Wayne-
There is not a bug in the software, since suggesting the re-flash to you more information has come to light, this is why I am saying you should not buy the lead just for this purpose.
A flash program was written to "fix" a possible issue with certain skis- this flash did nothing to help which was unusual. Information then came through from a ski with an issue that has pointed us to a problem. We have simulated this issue, looked at how it can be fixed and are currently waiting on confirmation that this has been solved.

As I have already said we cannot get a ski to display this issue even with a returned EPIC so we do need to wait to hear back from our test customer before we can confirm what's going on.

You are the first to report not enough clear information on our website regarding the lead, software and uses - I will look at this.
Chris

 

[wayne]

thanks chris, sorry i am so fustrated. i have reinstalled the epic and it does the exact same thing. i just wanted to re install it to see if the ski ran the same. i will wait for more info from you.

wayne