Tankless

[All Stock]

Anyone have a tankless water heater?

We are needing a new water heater and were thinking about this tankless stuff. Kind of pricey, just wondering if anyone has an opinion on them.

[Idok]

i looked at them awhile back when I thoguht mine had taken a dump...I was all for it then, think about the room savings in the shop!!!!

plus, on demand water is nice....if people come to visit showers arent a problem..

[WaveDemon]

it only made sense to me if you had gas service. the electric tankless heaters are expensive.

[Big Kahuna]

My Dad has it, really nice.

[All Stock]

Thanks for the input.

I have gas already there.

When we bought our house, the pipes were really bad. Moron that we bouhgt it from used the hot water pipe as a ground for the electric dog fence. Did some great thinks to the cheap rolled galvanized pipes from the early 80's that my house was plumbed with.

Now my pipes are nice shiny copper, but it is time to get the sediment from the corroded pipes out of the hot water heater.

[PAIR-A-DICE]

Since you have gas service I say go for it! Natural gas or propane tankless water heaters are more efficient than their counterparts and will last longer.

We install the "Noritz" brand or the "Rinaii" brand most often. There are controllers available as well that regulate the temperature of the water depending on the area of the house that you are using it.

Don't be surprised that these units costs more than a standard tank type heater, but their efficiency will help pay for the extra up-front expenses. Also, keep in mind that you may still have to wait a while for the hot water to make it to a fixture that is a long distance from the heater. A circulating pump is usually not recommended for tankless heaters because you would have to install a holding tank, thus defeating the "purpose" of the tankless set-up. Noritz is the only brand that I have found that you CAN use a circulating pump with if you need to.

You HAD to know I would respond to this thread. :smile:

[PAIR-A-DICE]

it only made sense to me if you had gas service. the electric tankless heaters are expensive.

They sure are. We had a contractor who insisted that we provide one for a house we were plumbing against my recommendation. When the electrician told him he would have to upgrade the electrical supply to the entire house he changed his mind. An electric tankless water heater is EXPENSIVE as hell to operate.

[Whtbread]

You can check with your gas company to see if they will give you a discount to purchase one from them. Our local gas company gives all kinds of discounts on gas appliances.

[T-bone]

it only made sense to me if you had gas service. the electric tankless heaters are expensive.

the problem with that is the vent for some of the tankless stuff is 5 tp 6 " most everyone has a 3" vent coming off their water heater now.....some run into a combo with the furnace....now the whole thing needs to be changed. $$$$$

[WaveDemon]

the problem with that is the vent for some of the tankless stuff is 5 tp 6 " most everyone has a 3" vent coming off their water heater now.....some run into a combo with the furnace....now the whole thing needs to be changed. $$$$$
good to know. thanks.

[freestylegeek]

GET IT GET IT GET IT!!!!!
It's one of the best things we ever did!

I will NEVER own a house without one again.
(That and my wastewater heat exchanger (http://gfxtechnology.com/)...)
I'm SURE I'll be even happier when I have teenagers in the house.
We can take 3 showers in a row, then fill up the tub, then do the laundry, and run the dishwasher, and when that's all done, I can wash both cars in the garage during the winter with HOT water!!!!

Our unit (Bosch Aquastar 125B) was $100 more ($550 installed) than a 50 gallon tank ($450 installed).
Plus it hangs on the wall, and doesn't take up any floor space in the basement.
It's 82% efficient, compared to the 68% that the tank would have been (in the first year, and decreasing efficiency as it got older).

I love that monster!

[PAIR-A-DICE]

the problem with that is the vent for some of the tankless stuff is 5 tp 6 " most everyone has a 3" vent coming off their water heater now.....some run into a combo with the furnace....now the whole thing needs to be changed. $$$$$

Good point. Most of the installs we do are exterior units that do not require venting. Of course this is not recommended in other climates.

If All Stock's current heater is electric he might be able to consider an exterior unit depending on his climate.

[Jawbreaker]

I'll be installing one in the next home I build for myself. Too expensive for spec homes.

[All Stock]

Well good news, my heater is in the attic. Exhaust is as easy as running new piping to the roof. I can build a suppoet structure so the new plumbing will be as short as possible.

I almost PM'd you Flush, but didn't want to take advantage of your background. What do think is a fair price for the Rinnai? I was quoted $3500 over the phone. Seemed high to me.

I know the big Bosch is $999 at Home Depot and it is probably over kill.

Thanks for all the input guys, please keep it coming.

[MASTER Brian]

One thing to keep in mind, is you can't do the laundry with HOT water and take a shower at the same time with a tankless unit. At least that's my understanding from what I've been told....

[goXtreme]

One thing to keep in mind, is you can't do the laundry with HOT water and take a shower at the same time with a tankless unit. At least that's my understanding from what I've been told....


Oh? That might suck, my wife seems to think that the front loader washer can only do ONE pair of pants at a time,and that seems to be when I am taking a shower.

I think I am going to go down to the utility place tomorrow and see if they have them or not.

[SuperJETT]

One thing to keep in mind, is you can't do the laundry with HOT water and take a shower at the same time with a tankless unit. At least that's my understanding from what I've been told....

If you get a small one, sure, that's why you buy one sized for your needs.

And if you install wastewater heat exchanger, it preheats the cool water going to it and increases your capacity while saving energy/$$$.

[PAIR-A-DICE]

Well good news, my heater is in the attic. Exhaust is as easy as running new piping to the roof. I can build a suppoet structure so the new plumbing will be as short as possible.

I almost PM'd you Flush, but didn't want to take advantage of your background. What do think is a fair price for the Rinnai? I was quoted $3500 over the phone. Seemed high to me.

I know the big Bosch is $999 at Home Depot and it is probably over kill.

Thanks for all the input guys, please keep it coming.

I'll get a quote on one tommorow (I MIGHT have an accurate quote in my New Construction pricing) and see if I can ship you one, Kevin. $3500 is WAY out of line. I'll PM you my price on Rinnai tommorow.

[PAIR-A-DICE]

If you get a small one, sure, that's why you buy one sized for your needs.

And if you install wastewater heat exchanger, it preheats the cool water going to it and increases your capacity while saving energy/$$$.

Good advice, Darin. The instantaneous heaters do require proper sizing to be effective, just as in other heaters cases. I would have one at my house, but we don't have natural gas in my neighborhood and I really don't want a propane tank. As soon as gas is available, I'll be putting one in my house.

[feartheride]

GET IT GET IT GET IT!!!!!
It's one of the best things we ever did!

I will NEVER own a house without one again.
(That and my wastewater heat exchanger (http://gfxtechnology.com/)...)
I'm SURE I'll be even happier when I have teenagers in the house.
We can take 3 showers in a row, then fill up the tub, then do the laundry, and run the dishwasher, and when that's all done, I can wash both cars in the garage during the winter with HOT water!!!!

Our unit (Bosch Aquastar 125B) was $100 more ($550 installed) than a 50 gallon tank ($450 installed).
Plus it hangs on the wall, and doesn't take up any floor space in the basement.
It's 82% efficient, compared to the 68% that the tank would have been (in the first year, and decreasing efficiency as it got older).

I love that monster!

is that just to install,you can,t get a heater for that price can you

[SuperJETT]

is that just to install,you can,t get a heater for that price can you

http://www.tanklesswaterheatersdirect.com/shop/tanklesswaterheaters/aquastar/boschaquastar125bbuypage.asp

[sclevela]

If you get a small one, sure, that's why you buy one sized for your needs.

And if you install wastewater heat exchanger, it preheats the cool water going to it and increases your capacity while saving energy/$$$.

there is no capacity to a tankless...... your misunderstanding the ratings for this style water heater....... they are based on a degree rise per flow rate.... for example....... if u flow 4 gpm (gallons per minute) through a certain model heater u may only get a 45 degre temp rise over the incoming water temp...... whereas at 2.6 gpm u might get a 70 degree rise over incoming water temp....... this is where preheaters come in......... if your standard well / municipal water has a cold water temp of 50 degrees then to take a shower and be comfortable (if u like hot showers) u really need that larger rise temp or u need to preheat your water and u can flow at the higher gpm....... in other words 2.6 gpm at a 70 degree rise through the heater with 50 degree cold equals 120 degree water at a rate of 2.6 gpm........ whereas if u preheat your water to 75 degrees u cant now flow the same temp water at a rate of 4 gallons per minute ............. but there is never a "capacity" involved .... capacity implies a dumpload style tank type heater..... wheres in theory a tankless style heater has no capacity, no dumpload, and limitless hot water...... until u turn off the faucet........ at which time there is no longer any hot water...... once the flow stops the water stops being heated...... the true savings in a tankless type heater is not in its ability to heat water or in how it does so......... the true savings is in its ability to not heat water unless there is a demand and its lack of standy loss.... or need to maintain a water temperature when noone needs hot water


sorry so long winded hope that helped some

[sclevela]

p.s............ if u have a boiler your probably better off with an indirect fired hot water heater anyways

[PAIR-A-DICE]

there is no capacity to a tankless...... your misunderstanding the ratings for this style water heater....... they are based on a degree rise per flow rate.... for example....... if u flow 4 gpm (gallons per minute) through a certain model heater u may only get a 45 degre temp rise over the incoming water temp...... whereas at 2.6 gpm u might get a 70 degree rise over incoming water temp....... this is where preheaters come in......... if your standard well / municipal water has a cold water temp of 50 degrees then to take a shower and be comfortable (if u like hot showers) u really need that larger rise temp or u need to preheat your water and u can flow at the higher gpm....... in other words 2.6 gpm at a 70 degree rise through the heater with 50 degree cold equals 120 degree water at a rate of 2.6 gpm........ whereas if u preheat your water to 75 degrees u cant now flow the same temp water at a rate of 4 gallons per minute ............. but there is never a "capacity" involved .... capacity implies a dumpload style tank type heater..... wheres in theory a tankless style heater has no capacity, no dumpload, and limitless hot water...... until u turn off the faucet........ at which time there is no longer any hot water...... once the flow stops the water stops being heated...... the true savings in a tankless type heater is not in its ability to heat water or in how it does so......... the true savings is in its ability to not heat water unless there is a demand and its lack of standy loss.... or need to maintain a water temperature when noone needs hot water


sorry so long winded hope that helped some

I think Darin made his point, though. You are absolutely correct in your description on how these work. We don't have to worry about the incoming water temps in Florida too much. :cool2:

[SuperJETT]

there is no capacity to a tankless...... your misunderstanding the ratings for this style water heater....... they are based on a degree rise per flow rate.... for example....... if u flow 4 gpm (gallons per minute) through a certain model heater u may only get a 45 degre temp rise over the incoming water temp...... whereas at 2.6 gpm u might get a 70 degree rise over incoming water temp....... this is where preheaters come in......... if your standard well / municipal water has a cold water temp of 50 degrees then to take a shower and be comfortable (if u like hot showers) u really need that larger rise temp or u need to preheat your water and u can flow at the higher gpm....... in other words 2.6 gpm at a 70 degree rise through the heater with 50 degree cold equals 120 degree water at a rate of 2.6 gpm........ whereas if u preheat your water to 75 degrees u cant now flow the same temp water at a rate of 4 gallons per minute ............. but there is never a "capacity" involved .... capacity implies a dumpload style tank type heater..... wheres in theory a tankless style heater has no capacity, no dumpload, and limitless hot water...... until u turn off the faucet........ at which time there is no longer any hot water...... once the flow stops the water stops being heated...... the true savings in a tankless type heater is not in its ability to heat water or in how it does so......... the true savings is in its ability to not heat water unless there is a demand and its lack of standy loss.... or need to maintain a water temperature when noone needs hot water


sorry so long winded hope that helped some

Dude, you're a freaking nerd when it comes to this stuff. For the general public, the definition of capacity is "ability to perform or produce".

Preheating the feed to a tankless heater means it will be able to increase the temp of more water to a usable level.

Nerd.

[PAIR-A-DICE]

Dude, you're a freaking nerd when it comes to this stuff. For the general public, the definition of capacity is "ability to perform or produce".

Preheating the feed to a tankless heater means it will be able to increase the temp of more water to a usable level.

Nerd.


LOL:biggrin:

[sclevela]

Dude, you're a freaking nerd when it comes to this stuff. For the general public, the definition of capacity is "ability to perform or produce".

Preheating the feed to a tankless heater means it will be able to increase the temp of more water to a usable level.

Nerd.


lmfao......... this from the jetski/internet nerd lol

[All Stock]

Thanks Chick, I thought that the price was high. But they may have been quoting high to run of the window shoppers. They had an aggressive radio campaign and I am sure that this plumbing company (first on Rinnai's website for Houston) took a brunt of the calls.

Well from the looks of it, we be going tankless.

And as far as the laundry thing goes, we can't do a shower and laundry at the same time now. So that isn't a big deal..

Thanks for all the heads up on the good and bad guys. Better info hear than what I was getting from all the websites.

[2002zxi]

make sure you dont have a lot of nasty ********e in your water or your heating element wont last but like 10 minutes. Just bumpnig this because I'm trying to convince my parents to get one.

[goXtreme]

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=175796-1136-250SX%20NG&lpage=none

I think I am going to get one VERY soon.....

[crab]

If anyone wants first hand experience, PM me. I have been using the Aquastar 125x for about 8 years.

[goXtreme]

PM sent

[crab]

Remember the old saying: Keep it simple stupid=KISS

There have been times I almost switched back to a regular gas water tank, but space is an issue in my laundry room.

[crab]

BTW, 250sx sounds like an underpowered standup...lol:haha: :haha: :haha:

[hangtime]

Someone tell me why my tankless water system has about 5 minutes of real hot water and then just luke warm .

I have the temptrol nozzles in my shower and it goes lukewarm after 5 minutes but is still hot in the sink .:banghead:

[freestylegeek]

Someone tell me why my tankless water system has about 5 minutes of real hot water and then just luke warm .

I have the temptrol nozzles in my shower and it goes lukewarm after 5 minutes but is still hot in the sink .:banghead:

I don't know much about the temprtol nozzles, but if your flowrate is less than 0.5 gpm, your tankless will probably not heat the water. I do know it contains a pressure balancing valve, so it could be compensating for a pressure difference between your hot and cold, and thereby reducing the flowrate.

Do you have the same problem when you run your tub faucet?

[crab]

If you have the Aquastar like me, I had a similar issue. Turns out they since they are flow sensitive, they sometimes don't work well with pressure balancing valves according to Controlled Energy Corporation (CEC). The cold water pressure can overpower the hot since the hot is flow reduced in the heater, then the pressure balancing spool cuts the hot back even further. Its worse if you are on a private well like me, and the water pressure fluctuates between 40 and 60psi. Make sure the inline filters are clean and free of junk, that is the first place to start. Perhaps check your water pressure at a few different places.

[hangtime]

I don't know much about the temprtol nozzles, but if your flowrate is less than 0.5 gpm, your tankless will probably not heat the water. I do know it contains a pressure balancing valve, so it could be compensating for a pressure difference between your hot and cold, and thereby reducing the flowrate.

Do you have the same problem when you run your tub faucet?



We have a boiler and water heater all in one and it heats our house and provides the hot water .
You can run out of hot water in the shower/tub and still have hot in the bathroom sink so I'm leaning towards the temptrol nozzles which are supposed to prevent scalding but I think it's letting too much cold in .

Everyone tells me you should never run out of hot water but I like to take longer than a 5 minutes shower most times and it's real irritating :bs2:

[crab]

PM I sent to michal950:

Its been fine for the last couple of years, but I have the battery powered pilot model and there was a gremlin in the electronics that took about 6 years before we finally got things right. The 125x is only capable of running one appliance at a time, and if you are showering and turn hot water on anywhere in the house, it influences the shower temp. They claim it shouldn't do that, but it does. It might have to do with the pressure balancing shower valves also. My feeling now is that if I have another problem, I will probably switch to a standing pilot model(125b), simple is better. Gas hot water tanks have a 10-15 year lifespan with no problems, these hi-tech tankless heaters are cool, expensive, and efficient, but if they break down are a real pain in the arse.

[yz250fpilot]

Rinaii :biggthumpup: :biggthumpup:

[SuperJETT]

Bumping this, our water heater has been acting up. I have a feeling it's full of sediment, I did a bottom blowdown (wow, there is a nuke sub term) and it didn't help one bit.

We can get like 1.5 kid baths before running out of hot water, that's barely a full tub total, other times the water is SUPER hot. It may just be the gas valve too. Argh.

We could buy a tankless Bosch right now, only $500 for a single use capacity, and I could do most of the install, just not sure we need to yet...

[MADMAT]

Mine is acting up too.

I really want to go tankless.

[hangtime]

Tankless have their pluses and minuses .I can take a shower that will never run out of hot water but only with a water saver shower head .
they only hold about 4 gallons of hot water so filling a tub can be a challenge if you like it real hot .

Once adjusted properly they are nice

[SuperJETT]

Tankless have their pluses and minuses .I can take a shower that will never run out of hot water but only with a water saver shower head .
they only hold about 4 gallons of hot water so filling a tub can be a challenge if you like it real hot .

Once adjusted properly they are nice

They don't 'hold' water, they merely heat it as it passes through. If you are pulling beyond it's capacity, then the water won't be as hot, just back off your flow a little.

Tanks on the other hand, once you 'run out' of hot water, take forever to recover because their btu rating is lower and there is more water to heat.

I just did a bottom flush on our's, the hot water didn't last very long at all. I have a feeling with it being a 40 gallon, our inlet cold is 47F, and it being a little older are all adding up to poor performance. Hopefully once the river warms up (city water comes from there) it will work better and get us through the year at least.

[skinnyman]

I really didn't read the whole thread but Here I go.

Electric tankless waste of time
Im a Rennai distributer My pricing with no Profit on the 9.4 gpm R94LSI enterior unit and the 9.4gpm R94lse out door unit is 922.42 If any-one from the boards wants one pm me I can order on in the city your in so no frieght issues.Make sure you have at least 3/4 gas line to feed the beast

Indoor units need to use Rennai vent piping that is kinda pricy


Home depot unit sux Dont waste the time or money on Bosch,White Starr,Poloma etc they are POS

Pm me if any-one needs some Tech info or anything else

Allsock you should have pm me i would have got installed in Houston for raw cost as a "TestUnit"

[SuperJETT]

Home depot unit sux Dont waste the time or money on Bosch,White Starr,Poloma etc they are POS


Why? I know several people that have had them for years and love them, Bosch that is.

[hangtime]

They do hold about 4 gallons within the coils inside it .That's how I got mine adjusted was to slow the flow going in on the cold .The pressure was too high and the water passed through to fast and it couldnt heat it up good enough .I turned the cold in valve down a little and my hot only runs out when filling a tub with all hot .I can still fill it up about 9" deep before it runs out .

They don't 'hold' water, they merely heat it as it passes through. If you are pulling beyond it's capacity, then the water won't be as hot, just back off your flow a little.

Tanks on the other hand, once you 'run out' of hot water, take forever to recover because their btu rating is lower and there is more water to heat.

I just did a bottom flush on our's, the hot water didn't last very long at all. I have a feeling with it being a 40 gallon, our inlet cold is 47F, and it being a little older are all adding up to poor performance. Hopefully once the river warms up (city water comes from there) it will work better and get us through the year at least.

[freestylegeek]

...so filling a tub can be a challenge if you like it real hot .

Once adjusted properly they are nice

I've never had a problem filling our tub. We have a 'single use' Bosch and we take showers while running the washing machine. I also wash our cars in the winter with hot water while we fill up the tub, and it's no problem. We have well water, and our bladder tank pressure range is 35-50 psi. The only time we have issues (not enough flow for washing cars) is when we drop below 40 psi. I'm hoping to adjust our range to 40-55 psi or maybe 45-60 psi and see what a difference that makes. I don't know what it will do to our pump though...

Bottom line is, once you go tankless, you'll never go back.

[freestylegeek]

They do hold about 4 gallons within the coils inside it .That's how I got mine adjusted was to slow the flow going in on the cold .The pressure was too high and the water passed through to fast and it couldnt heat it up good enough .I turned the cold in valve down a little and my hot only runs out when filling a tub with all hot .I can still fill it up about 9" deep before it runs out .

That sounds like something might be wrong. My 'hot' flowrate is 2 gpm (at the faucet) and my heater has no trouble holding 125º+ filling up the tub. What brand/model of heater do you have?

[skinnyman]

Why? I know several people that have had them for years and love them, Bosch that is.

We have had nothing but issues with Bosch trying to get warranty parts for clients.:thumbsdown:

No factory training for my techs in the field:thumbsdown:

Basically they are A-holes to plumbing trade :thumbsdown: