FX1/144mm Bottom Replacement [Archive] - X-H2O - Epicenter of Freestyle and Freeride jetskiing

Flash-FX

11-14-2006, 06:59 PM

Ok...This build is the outcome of a "lot of talk/concept" that was bouncing around for a good many years now. When this idea of replacing the pump in the FX1 for better surf riding was discussed, it allways seemed to end with a lot of ?????????????????'s. I needed to check this out.

In the beginning....About 2 years ago, I bought a spare FX hull for a 144mm conversion. Just as a experiment. Since then, That "drop in" conversion got put aside for a complete bottom treatment that blends things together. I wish there was a easier way. But wait...First a couple of things...

#1- I just want to ride.:cheer: ..I hate working on this stuff.

#2- I am not a boat manufacturer.

#3- I do not plan on making boats/parts for sale.

#4- I built this thing because I could not buy one.

It was a boat that the previous owner had tried a 144mm conversion before. He said it really didn't work well."too much cavitation" so he re-installed the original parts, then sold it.

Flash-FX

11-14-2006, 08:08 PM

After a lot of rough calculations, I decided something more than the graft was necessary. Also to use as many SJ parts, driveshaft,grate,shoe..ect as possible. A Mag 144 1" setback pump ended up fitting just rite. If I used a stock SJ pump the firewall/motor combo is moved forward only 1". There is also a issue of not enough side clearance for stuff. No problem...make more space.
The nozzle pivot is only moved rearward 1 3/8". Since the SJ nozzle is shorter, It
sticks out the back about the same as a stock FX. "Secret Specs". :sneaky:

The goal was not to mess up the FX handling properties too much.

Flash-FX

11-14-2006, 11:07 PM

To make sure everything fit properly, a short block w/new mounts was used during setup.(Perfect alignment is key). Since the SJ pump shoe width is 1" wider than the FX, the bottom needed to be widened to match. Here's where Divinylcell foam is your friend....easy to shape,sand and work with. Also easily formed with a heat source. Good with the bad...Expensive.

FX-6.9 Boy

11-15-2006, 12:28 AM

right on, that's my kind of thinking, if you can't buy it figure out how to build it,, very cool.

Slug

11-15-2006, 02:00 AM

Thats what I plan on doing next winter. I'll still use the coverted pump but I'll replace the intake duct area and pump shoe.
Are you shaping the intake duct yourself or are you going to glass one in from another type of ski?

Flash-FX

11-15-2006, 06:57 AM

Here's where I formed the intake duct. After much research on design, more :sneaky:. This turned out to be the easiest way. Using strips of foam to rough shape the duct.(instead of pouring a big blob of foam and sanding it down). I failed to mention there is a EXCESS of SANDING that follows a project like this. Some of you already know....Don't forget to wear your mask.

Slug

11-15-2006, 07:10 AM

wow that's looking good. what type of ride plate are you going to use?

joe b

11-15-2006, 07:13 AM

Hey MacGyver,
Whens the lamey going in??? I want a ride:biggthumpup:

Flash-FX

11-15-2006, 07:41 AM

Good question Slug. Now here's where if you are tired of that regular old ride plate, just build a new one. Since I opened up the pump cavity and made the 144mm SJ pump shoe to fit, a custom ride plate was in order. Once again, fun with foam. See where I'm going with this, The foam is not really the finished part. It is for a prototype "plug".
I can see all you SJ guys making custom "backflip" ride plates now:bigeyes: . It really is not that hard to do. Get out there and Sand...Sand...Sand.

GDFL

11-15-2006, 08:54 AM

Very impressive work. Looks like a custom ride plate is in my future:sneaky:

tom21

11-15-2006, 09:33 AM

At first I was like why? why not get another ski instead? But you make it look so easy. can't wait to hear how it works. very cool.

Flash-FX

11-15-2006, 08:56 PM

Now for more...Since the ride plate plug was pretty much established, it was time to refine the overall condition of the hull. Every boat is different, even though they might have been formed from the same mold at Yamaha. The final assembly at the factory is never is exactly the same. Did you ever notice the sides of your boat, where the "bulge" from where the expanding floatation foam left distortions? Well, I block sanded most of that out and restored the overall shape to the "original factory dimension". More sanding...:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
After you get the finished surface really close with the "bondo" type filler, the next step is to move to a sandable primer. Duratec surfacing primer,(catalized polyester type) is some remarkable stuff to work with. It has a 20 minute pot life, fills really good, cures hard, and best of all sands EASY! Wow..some amazing stuff. More on that later.

Now since this hull "plug" is almost shaped where it needs to be, it's time to make a flange so that the final glasswork (in the mold)has a little overrun area and a place to seal up the parameter. Vacuum bag stuff. More divinycell foam... Glue it together with Bondo...Easy.

h2odesperado

11-15-2006, 09:07 PM

wow. I am in awe of what you're doing and so quickly too. Completely rebuilding the bottom of a boat. yeeesh. Thats a huge ride plate. Will that have any effects on handling?

butti

11-15-2006, 09:12 PM

now i see what your doing:sneaky: what do you have in store for the top deck?:sneaky:

Flash-FX

11-15-2006, 09:24 PM

It was time to make a actual part. The ride plate is a small enough piece that was built in a short time. Here again, standard tooling methods are used. Tooling
gelcoat, fiberglass matt, and a support base. Simple enough.
Another amazing thing about the Duratec primer is that it can be wet sanded and polished to a high gloss! Cool stuff. The same treatment will be given to the rest of the hull.
Sorry, there are a few pictures that got "lost" from my computer when some idiot took out the powerline up the block. A big crash.

The parts are all made with West Systems epoxy and vacuum bagged. It sounds
complicated but it really isn't. The final black finish is a epoxy/graphite gelcoat.

Flash-FX

11-15-2006, 09:32 PM

wow. I am in awe of what you're doing and so quickly too. Completely rebuilding the bottom of a boat. yeeesh. Thats a huge ride plate. Will that have any effects on handling?

It took a way Loooooong time. And the ride plate mold is way longer than it needs to be. I trimmed the 2nd plate down to a "shorter than stock" length. I will test them soon.That's the beauty of making your own. They are only cheap fiberglass and you can hack away and find out what suits your riding conditions.

Flash-FX

11-15-2006, 09:35 PM

now i see what your doing:sneaky: what do you have in store for the top deck?:sneaky:

A Top Deck?...perhaps in a "next chapter". But I need to dial this thing in first.

Metal4130

11-16-2006, 12:59 AM

All I can say is WOW. Your craftsmanship is amazing. I've never seen anything so cool done to a ski. Your plug looks right on the money and I can't wait to see the final product! Just a question, what do you do for a living? Amazing!

Mile9c1

11-16-2006, 03:55 AM

That's going to be a wild ride! But why not just buy a bottom hull from Waterdawg? Even if you had to wait 2 years for it, you'd have been on the water already :biggrin:

Slug

11-16-2006, 06:46 AM

Can you make one out of carbon for me :biggrin: Your bottom hull with my top hull would be one awsome Fx1 :cool2: .

Flash-FX

11-16-2006, 06:53 AM

Thanks for the props guys...a few answers. NO, I do not do this for a living. When you want to ride something you cannot buy,you must build it yourself. About working with this stuff...well it's all chemicals that can/will be hazardous to you. When you work with these materials be sure to follow ALL the safety suggestions! This stuff will kill you.

About 2 years ago myself and a riding buddy "straight pipe Mike", tried to buy 2 of these FX1's made from carbon for about 5k each. The guy that supposedly had a mold and tooling to make them NEVER returned the follow up calls. What was I going to do...Talk about it forever? How about NO. Now here I am. And I do now have a RUNNING BOAT! It was a lot of work,Ask any builder. That's why those good aftermarket hulls cost so much. You get what you pay for.

Flash-FX

11-16-2006, 07:37 AM

Time to get the hull finished. The hull tooling was the same as the ride plate. Except that the original designers threw in a little snag. Rule #1, When you make a mold of something, be sure to provide a "positive draft" on all your parts. (The finished part needs to come out somehow). The Kawasaki 440/550 has glue on "extensions" in the rear of the boat. Since the FX1 is basically a big 550, Yamaha did away with these "add ons" and incorporated them into the hull. I really didn't want to make this a 2 piece mold. This could be a problem.

So I made the tail of the plug so it would allow the mold to "pivot off" without getting trapped or locked on. Also I added 3 ports for using water or compressed air to get the pieces seperated. :sneaky: The middle hole works great as a drain while WET SANDING....

Rule #2 The smoother the finish the easier the parts come apart.

Flash-FX

11-16-2006, 07:51 AM

2000 more words.

waxhead

11-16-2006, 02:48 PM

Wow this is an awesome thread

WaveDemon

11-16-2006, 03:20 PM

where do you buy that foam?

Flash-FX

11-16-2006, 04:57 PM

After the many layers are built up (this took about a week to prevent shrinkage in the polyester tooling coats) I built a cheezy framework to cradle this thing, so when it came time to SAND and POLISH it wasn't rolling all over the place.

Now the moment of truth...was it going to come apart easy?? Amazingly enough with minor coaxing it popped right off! :woot: :woot: :woot: Things were looking good. The plug was in perfect condition. The mold had a minor texture left from the release materials that would be WET SANDED and POLISHED out...

The materials can be found at most boat/fiberglass supply companys. The problem with getting the Divinylcell foam is that the sheets are pretty large 4' x 8' and to ship it must be cut down for UPS. I'm lucky that there is a major supplier about 5 miles from me.

GDFL

11-16-2006, 05:02 PM

Wow, you're my hero. :hail: :hail: Makes the stuff I'm working on look like play dough and pixie sticks.

Dirtybird

11-16-2006, 05:03 PM

man, this is crazy everything is so smooth and just awesome. At first I was like wtf why would you buy that rat trap............................< This is me eating my words :haha: Awesome job!

Flash-FX

11-16-2006, 06:31 PM

Ready?...More fun with WET SANDING!! :scared: After your mold pops off without a hitch and things are going sweet..It's time for more SANDING! WOW!! :cheer: Start with 220 then 400 then 600 and if it really needs it, finish up with 800 or 1000. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: I know, really boring stuff. One of my buddy's turned me on to this "guide coat in a can". Just spray it on then sand it off. It fills in the scratch marks and while you sand it off, you sand away the imperfections. Use it between grit grade changes. Another no-brainer job... After that step, move on to polishing and waxing. Just like on a car. Make it shine.

Ok..Time to lay up a "splash layer". Just a couple layers of some cheap cloth and resin to make sure the finished lay-up will be cool, and to condition the mold. I used 2 layers of 6" wide 6oz. cloth for this step. Why?..I don't know, but it's recommended.

Flash-FX

11-16-2006, 06:39 PM

Who wants to buy the worlds first and only DOUBLE BACKFLIP 9 Lb. transparent FX-1 hull??

:joke: That sounded good.

Bonzia Bob

11-16-2006, 09:44 PM

Simply beautiful................thats all I can say. Phenomenal work Flash :hail: :hail: :hail:

Mile9c1

11-16-2006, 10:14 PM

Who wants to buy the worlds first and only DOUBLE BACKFLIP 9 Lb. transparent FX-1 hull??

Careful, it might blow away on you :beerchug:

Nice work!

Flash-FX

11-16-2006, 10:17 PM

Thanks Bob. I'm wondering why no one has ever posted a project like this before. I can't be the only one. Is this stuff all :sneaky: "top secret"?? :sneaky:

h2odesperado

11-16-2006, 10:30 PM

wow. this is unbelievable.

Roo

11-16-2006, 11:14 PM

what is the red layer?

meaning material/coat type.

great thread and amazing work! trying to digest everything is thorough as possible.

FX-6.9 Boy

11-16-2006, 11:47 PM

wow,,,,I'm all about fx1's and this one is baaaaaaaaaad!

Flash-FX

11-17-2006, 06:53 AM

[QUOTE=Roo;144732]what is the red layer?

meaning material/coat type.

Red tooling gelcoat (polyester).

Flash-FX

11-17-2006, 07:26 AM

Enough of that...Now ready to prep for the real thing. I hope I'm not making this thread sound like some sort of classroom jive. Clean up the mold real good, then wax on wax off..... There are details I'm skipping here, but you get the idea. (Lots of prep is key). :hail:

Since the finished hull is going to be epoxy, you need to lay down some sort of "gel coat". This is just (in this case) regular West Systems 105 resin/slow hardener mixed with Cabosil and Graphite powder. It gives the final finish a dark charcoal color.(but you can make it almost any color, I chose black ) Simple, mix up this stuff real well and just brush it on, evenly. After it cures, (like a day later) wash the surface with lots of fresh water using a red Scotch Brite pad. Dry off the water then use 80 grit to scuff the surface. The cloth layers need to stick to this real well.

Flash-FX

11-17-2006, 08:33 AM

I never had Home Ec in high school (where they teach you how to sew and bake a cake or something) but here's where I needed some of those "skills". Pattern making...Hmmm. To make the hull a nice uniform thickness (where it needed to be)without BIG lumps and ridges, I needed to make a template to lay on the fiberglass for cutting. So I headed over to the local fabric store. :smile: Another adventure. I was looking for something that wouldn't shift too much but would fold like 12 oz fiberglass. Just to cut up for a pattern. This older sales woman really helped out by showing me some stuff a seamstress would use in shirt collars. Its a non woven polyspun material that looks like a 2 oz weed barrier fabric. But softer. This "simple" job ended taking 2 days to finish.

Flash-FX

11-17-2006, 05:26 PM

Ok..Now for "tip of the day". Buy them. Cheesy looking electric sissors with carbide cutting inserts. Super lightweight, cuts almost any thickness of glass or carbon with ease. Cut a real straight line FAST....

Even with these It took HOURS to cut the fabric layers for the bottom.

Flash-FX

11-20-2006, 06:15 AM

Time for more :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:. Now that I made some pretty decent patterns.The layers of fiberglass needed to be cut.(Here is another :sneaky: never talked about subject:sneaky: ). Do you just lay down like a bunch of thick glass and go for it? That's apparently what the factory did. But after cutting up the test boat and seeing the uneven fiberglass layers, I knew I could make improvements here...like cut down some weight.

During the last 2 years I had made some "test" patches of various mini-layups on a piece of 18" x 34" glass.(A old entertainment center glass door) This was really helpful. Just wax or Rain-X the glass surface real good, then cut the fiberglass/carbon (or what ever you need to determine the layup schedule) in 2" strips and do the resin work. What's cool about this is that you can see any air bubbles from bottom side of the glass and get a better idea how to work them out. After the resin cures in a day or so, the test pieces peel off the glass real easy for the "flex and break test". Another use for the glass is for making perfect "sheets" of carbon fiber for projects. The bottom side has a perfectly flat, high gloss finish. How about using a sheet of this stuff for the baffle under those SJ hoods? :bigeyes: Bling:cheer:

After all this testing I finally decided on a layup schedule. :sneaky: :sneaky:
1-Epoxy/graphite gelcoat layer (the outside)
3-layers of 12 oz. Biaxial fiberglass
1-layer of 2mm Baltek Coremat,
1-layer of 12 oz. Biaxial fiberglass
1-layer of 5.6 oz carbon fiber (to stiffen things up on the inside:bigeyes: )
2" 5.6 oz standard weave carbon fiber tape in between layers of cloth in all the corners. (5 layers)
3" uni-directional CF tape in the bottom side corners & in the sharp edges of the pump tunnel.
The Coremat is a super lightweight poly-spun material with microballoons that has perforations every 1/4" to let the resin bond both sides together real good.:sneaky: :sneaky: :sneaky: Also lets the air out between the layers when vacuum bagging.
Remember this is just my "test" boat and if something screws up, I'll just make another.:cheer:

Flash-FX

11-20-2006, 07:18 AM

Time to finally put it all together. Organize the cloth, resin, plastic covered tables,brushes,rollers,ect...(basically,get your act together) Its showtime. The resin I was using was West Systems 105 with extra slow "tropical" hardener to give a extra long working time. I roughly estimated 2 hours to do this job. WRONG! Even with the experienced help of another FX1 addict,aka "WaveHog" It took 5+ hours of straight-NO goofing around to do finish this. The temp was 59 degrees outside and resin remained liquid.

After the bag was in place and the vacuum turned on, I used a electric blanket to cover the mold and layup. Left it on high overnight.

Flash-FX

11-20-2006, 07:25 AM

The next night I peeled off all of the vacuum bag and excess resin soaked layers. Things were looking good :cheer:

Sanford

11-20-2006, 08:57 AM

:hail:

Wow, I just read all this 2 times. You are being modest because this is awsome work and only a handfull of people would attempt to do this massive job. Your passion for the FX1 should NEVER be questioned!!!

Since the finished hull is going to be epoxy, you need to lay down some sort of "gel coat". This is just (in this case) regular West Systems 105 resin/slow hardener mixed with Cabosil and Graphite powder.I've always laid down the first layer of glass while the gelcoat was wet. I didn't know you could do it like you did.

With cabosil & graphite powder, what is the consistency (viscosity) of this combined "gel coat" and how thick? (2/3mm?) Why graphite powder? And doesn't this gle coat mixture cause the final finish (outside) to be dull?

About those electric sissors, I saw them on the counter at my local glass shop (uscomposites)...I thought how could something that looks so cheesy work well :) Are they variable speed?

What people don't realize is the cost in materials for such a project is quite high. Care to tell us what your cost to date is? (not including beer)

MODS: This whole article should be a sticky because there are plenty good tips people can use for smaller projects

WaveDemon

11-20-2006, 09:00 AM

MODS: This whole article should be a sticky because there are plenty good tips people can use for smaller projects

I agree, great build. maybe add it to the tech faq.

Flash-FX

11-20-2006, 05:39 PM

After letting the boat remain in the mold with the heat on for another day, it was time. It took a little work but it popped right out :cheer: :cheer: . The outside finish had a light texture from the release materials but it was a good day! :woot: :woot:
I gave the flange area a quick trim (so not to cut off any fingers with the sharp edges) and pulled out the scale. 31lbs. Not bad for a couple layers of bi-axial fiberglass.

Thanks guys for all of the positive replys. This stuff really isn't rocket science and most anyone can pull it off. Maybe not a full boat project, but you decide what your capable of.
Some answers.....
Those cheezy sissors cut heavy woven roven 24 oz "boat" glass with ease. They have only 1 speed......cut.

The cost?...Still adding.

Gelcoat mix...well ...the graphite makes it black and adding the cabosil thickens it so it does not run/sag. freestyle the Mix. US Composites carries most all of the materials. I bought 10 yards of 12 oz. bi-axial from them and used about 1/2 the roll.

WaveDemon

11-20-2006, 05:55 PM

NIce f'n work! you are an inspiration.

do you think it's strong enough at that thickness? is it very flexible?

2lick

11-20-2006, 05:56 PM

I never took the time to look at this thread... WOW!!!! this is so kool!!!!!!!!!!!!

Flash-FX

11-20-2006, 06:26 PM

NIce f'n work! you are an inspiration.

do you think it's strong enough at that thickness? is it very flexible?

Strong ,yes.... flexible Nope,not at all.:smile:

Flash-FX

11-20-2006, 06:42 PM

Her first "bath".

Mile9c1

11-20-2006, 06:56 PM

It looks like all your hard work is paying off. I bet you're excited! :beerchug:

Flash-FX

11-20-2006, 07:13 PM

Ok..time to get back to work..I set the newly completed bottom aside and brought in my perfectly running ski onto the "operating room". :bigeyes:
First, turf removal. I used a Fein Multimaster for this job. With the flat scraper blade attachment, it cuts off the glue under the mat (3M #90 spray adhesive) like butter...FAST. This is another awesome tool for working on skis. The blade (or saw/sanding attachments) rotate only a few degrees back and forth to cut. Just like the saw doctors use when they cut off your cast...remember that day?:smile: Next, to remove the bottom. Use the offset round blade to get right in the corner..plunge cut. This tool RULES for this job!

special fx

11-20-2006, 07:39 PM

Just like cleaning a fish!

Slug

11-21-2006, 04:35 AM

Nice work Flash :hail:
This would have to be the most informative build I've ever seen.:arms:
Keep up the good work

Flash-FX

11-21-2006, 06:52 AM

Thanx Slug, Where's your boat?? Did you get that steering cable issue resolved?

Flash-FX

11-21-2006, 07:24 AM

Here are a few pictures of cutting out the attach points that were in the FX hull. I used a regular air-hacksaw. Once they were all trimmed out, it was time to grind away the old hull and the GREEN GLUE. That stuff......:banghead:
I tried using a heat gun and prying off a mount, but the mount started to crack
and bailed using that method. At this point I wanted perfect mounts to glue back in. More grinding....

Flash-FX

11-21-2006, 07:33 AM

One of the biggest challenges was removing the bulkhead without damaging the top deck. (I'm using the top deck over)The fein tool with a slightly modified bade worked great. It took awhile but it came apart perfect. Plunge cut from each side...a little at a time.

waxhead

11-21-2006, 07:40 AM

so are you going to be selling these bottom hulls

Flash-FX

11-21-2006, 07:40 AM

Removing the "green stuff" INSIDE the top lip was fun...Grind...Grind....
Lots of fiberglass dust.

Flash-FX

11-21-2006, 07:42 AM

so are you going to be selling these bottom hulls

Line #3 on Post #1

Sorry

tom21

11-21-2006, 08:24 AM

Looks awesome! Can't wait to try this on some parts. :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:

waxhead

11-21-2006, 08:38 AM

ok fair enough shame

Flash-FX

11-21-2006, 05:46 PM

just selling one or two could help you cover all the costs you incurred on this project?

It would be like.....Alot.....Maybe $1,000,000.00??

Mile9c1

11-21-2006, 07:54 PM

noone else is making these.

Waterdawg's first hull was an FX-1, he called it the F1-Pro. It's a little bit different than this one. I don't think he's sold many, but I know of two he sold last year.

Flash-FX

11-22-2006, 06:29 AM

Waterdawg's first hull was an FX-1, he called it the F1-Pro. It's a little bit different than this one. I don't think he's sold many, but I know of two he sold last year.

Any pictures? Are they running? For such a awesome boat, why aren't they posted here? @X-H2O?.....This is the best freeride site. :cheer:

Flash-FX

11-22-2006, 06:38 AM

With all of that GRINDing out of the way, it was time to dry fit the pieces. The top deck fit on better than expected. No big gaps.:arms:

Flash-FX

11-22-2006, 06:44 AM

Guess where I found stainless ride plate and pump threaded inserts?

Flash-FX

11-22-2006, 06:54 AM

Setting the hull up is sorta like juggling. Make sure all the pieces fit well and that
they allow for perfect driveline alignment....then mix up the "glue".

Jet Set Performance

11-22-2006, 04:23 PM

Where in NJ are you?? I'd love to check this thing out in person (I own an FX-1 myself). Killer work!!!!:biggthumpup:

IceRocket1286

11-22-2006, 05:14 PM

well, the last 2 hours of my life ive beenr eading and studying this build. DA MN! saweeeeeeeet. Nice Work.

Sanford

11-22-2006, 05:20 PM

Hey Flash,

Why not make molds of the bulkhead and engine plates? For the record, is this going to be your personal one-off type of project or offer hulls for sale?

superramjet

11-22-2006, 07:50 PM

nice work, incredibly informative build, thanks for posting and sharing. I've read every post twice.

Mile9c1

11-22-2006, 08:46 PM

Any pictures?

Here are 3 different F1-Pro's.

Edit: Sorry to threadjack, I'll start a different thread.

Idok

11-22-2006, 08:52 PM

Here are 3 different F1-Pro's. The prepreg one is mine, but it's not finished yet.

Jeff did his bottom different than yours. He utilized the stock front intake grate holes and fit in a Superjet grate/pump intake, which sets the pump back an inch or so (however much longer the Superjet intake grate is).

mike, this going to be on the water beginning of next season?

Phill

11-22-2006, 09:05 PM

Hey Flash,.......... is this going to be your personal one-off type of project or offer hulls for sale?

#1- I just want to ride.:cheer: ..I hate working on this stuff.

#2- I am not a boat manufacturer.

#3- I do not plan on making boats/parts for sale.

#4- I built this thing because I could not buy one.

I think he takes care of that in his first post.......

Flash-FX

11-23-2006, 06:12 AM

Where in NJ are you?? I'd love to check this thing out in person (I own an FX-1 myself). Killer work!!!!:biggthumpup:
Thanx..I ride over in Brigantine. I'll give you a call.
Here are 3 different F1-Pro's.

Edit: Sorry to threadjack, I'll start a different thread.
No worries on the threadjack, thanks for posting the F1-Pro pics. I've been looking/asking for awhile now. Thinking perhaps it was a ghost.A super lightweight version with a BIG motor will be SICKEST flatwater boat ever!.:headbang: IMO. Hey Mile9c1, From the sounds of it you had Better start eating your Wheaties! Good luck!!
Hey Flash,

Why not make molds of the bulkhead and engine plates? For the record, is this going to be your personal one-off type of project or offer hulls for sale?
The time I have to work on projects like this is very limited. I bought the materials to make the bulkhead and bed plates but ran out of time. Perhaps later after I ride this thing more. This was the quickest (not the lightest)way to get in the water.

Flash-FX

11-23-2006, 06:19 AM

Ok....Some more dry setup pix. The Kawi 650 hardware worked out well.

Flash-FX

11-23-2006, 07:39 AM

It's getting closer. After making sure all the pieces fit well together, it was time to glue (epoxy) them in. The inside finish that is left behind after vacuum bagging is perfect for a "secondary bond" without grinding. The peel ply provides this (see closeup of hull/Carbon Fiber in previous post). The urethane type adhesives in a tube(s) do a real killer job (never ever come apart) but thinking down the road if I ever replace the top deck, I don't want to have GRIND off that material.

The epoxy adhesive mix is really simple. just freestyle the blend so not to let it drip and run off. Resin w/slow cure hardener , high density filler, cabosil, and a little graphite is the "glue". (At one time I thought about adding GREEN for a pigment additive just for fun, but.....NO).

For the bond line, I used epoxy, microballoons, and cabosil for filler. (a real fluffy-bondo like blend). While it was still wet, a layer of 3" uni-directional CF tape was placed on top and leveled out. The "new parts" of the engine compartment then got 1 coat of epoxy with special coating hardener, to seal things up.

Slug

11-23-2006, 07:49 AM

Flash-FX

11-23-2006, 08:06 AM

Slow down Flash. You're going to beat me back onto the water.
Do you have any paint or engine mods planned?
Here's some pics of the sj electrical box mounts that I fitted to my fx1. It makes removal of the electrical box alot easier. You have to fit them as close to the starboard side as possible to clear the b-pipe header.

Paint??...Not yet. I need to dial in the 'hardware' first.
Motor....Yes, a LPW std. stroke Lamey.:bigeyes: :cheer: big install this weekend :beerchug: ! The other motor couldn't spin the prop enough at low end. IE...no BRAPPpppp. Just bogggg bogggg.

Hey, that's a great idea for the E-Box. A no problem access with a 'lifter' glued in place in the front of the ride tray.

Jet Set Performance

11-23-2006, 10:11 AM

So I guess it's safe to assume this beast will be hitting the water very soon then, huh?? Let us know when that day gets here, I would love to see it in action. I'll even bring mine so you have a "side by side" comparison:biggrin:

waterfreak

11-23-2006, 10:36 AM

Wow:bigeyes: that's looks great! good work!:biggthumpup: You were just one step away from pulling molds for the rest of it! Now that's how you put a ski together...one piece at a time. If you could of just make a new firewall you would off save alot of weight:rolleyes:

That will be a "one of a kind" for sure . Can't wait to see it on the water Will you be going to Daytona?

He definitly made it look easier than it really is!!

Using epoxies is definetly the best but vinyl ester resin is alternatly less expensive, easier to work with , able you to use any polyester based gelcoats and have very much the characteristics of epoxies.

you shoud thing about making your own" how to" book. Very informative thread indeed

Flash-FX

11-24-2006, 06:28 AM

Well, this project has pretty much come to an end. I wasn't going to bore you with more 're-foaming' pix (there's plenty of threads covering that fun). But here
you go. 'WaveHog' was kind enough to lend me some 2lb. foam for this. Standard procedure....keep the temperature up as close to 80 degrees as possible for proper expansion, mix real well and pour.(no slacking). I used small (16oz-20oz.) batches to keep things under control.
After the foam reached it's final cure that afternoon, I leveled out the ride tray w/36 grit on a DA. Since this boat is just a 'experiment' I decided to add a little extra 'foot room'. It helps on a FX1.
The blue cloth is a piece of 'peel ply' holding down a few stray strands of fiberglass that were sticking up. After it cured it got peeled off..... Don't you just hate those strays?

Flash-FX

11-24-2006, 06:49 AM

Since WaveHog needed a little help vacuum bagging a set of footholds, I decided to make a extra ride plate. The more you work with these materials, the better the finished products become. Its all in the prep.

Flash-FX

11-24-2006, 07:18 AM

Thanks again for all the ++++ replies. WF, I am hoping to make Daytona if all works out. We'll see.

If you want to see some finished pix, there are some on the Jersey Rager page.. post # 47. http://www.x-h2o.com/showthread.php?t=8752&page=3

Metal4130

11-24-2006, 01:17 PM

AWESOME! How does that peel ply work? Does it just come off when the resin cures?

Flash-FX

11-25-2006, 07:52 AM

Yep, it peels off leaving behind the texture of the cloth. Perfect for secondary laminating without much SANDING. It's teflon treated so the resin will not stick to it.

Here's the basics...:cheer:

Sanford

11-25-2006, 09:01 AM

Flash-FX

11-25-2006, 08:12 PM

I still don't understand how that peel ply sticks to (fresh) wet glass (especially on stubborn curved areas). I can see it in a vacuum bag environment but not all by its self. It seems it would best be applied just when the epoxy begins to set and glass becomes sticky...no?

ps. Keep da pix a comin'

Sanford....Since US Composites is in your neck of the woods, head over there and pick up a yard or so of it. It's pretty cheap like 5.00/yd. They also have copies of 'West Systems Vacuum bagging techniques' guide. Check it out...It doesn't cover everything I worked with in my build, but its Good info.
And yes, peel ply does stick better when the resin begins to set...Freestyle it.:cheer:

Legdragger

11-27-2006, 05:14 PM

Flash-FX

11-28-2006, 06:26 PM

Hey this thread makes a lot more sense after the tour of your facility:biggthumpup:

I totally feel the same way about not liking to do this stuff but if you can't buy it you have to build it. However, you are one of very few guys that can say you built your own jet ski which is pretty friggin cool:cool2: .

After these waves and warm temps go away I will be able to get back in the shop to put the jet ski fabrication lesson to use, X2 style. I should be able to whip one up in my spare time over the next two years........

Thanks for the big :biggthumpup: . Can't wait to see your 'new & improved' X-2 at 1/2 the weight. It will be AWESOME!:scared: .

I put the FX-1 on the scale the other day.....262.0 lbs. complete w/o gas. That's with that heavy 144mm scat pump.

chad

12-02-2006, 04:14 PM

Sanford....Since US Composites is in your neck of the woods, head over there and pick up a yard or so of it. It's pretty cheap like 5.00/yd. They also have copies of 'West Systems Vacuum bagging techniques' guide. Check it out...It doesn't cover everything I worked with in my build, but its Good info.
And yes, peel ply does stick better when the resin begins to set...Freestyle it.:cheer:

I am curious about vacuum bagging .. Did you make your setup?
what type of vacuum system do you use? does the West systems book cover these things???

Very nice job. everything turned out great. VERY inspiring !!!!!!:You_Rock_Emoticon:

Flash-FX

12-03-2006, 09:17 AM

I am curious about vacuum bagging .. Did you make your setup?
what type of vacuum system do you use? does the West systems book cover these things???

Very nice job. everything turned out great. VERY inspiring !!!!!!:You_Rock_Emoticon:

Yea..Chad, the West Systems pamphlet covers most of it for small projects (all epoxy). Look around for more info on the net too. The vacuum pump I use is designed for the HVAC industry rated @ 4.5cfm at about 29" hg. The vacuum 'suction cups' seem to be the easiest to attach,especially when working with thin stretchable plastic.
The one thing that is not covered in that pamphlet is applying a layer of PVA (polyvinyl alcohol) or Partall #10 over the waxed surface. This stuff can be tricky to apply properly. It's a chemical resistant (but water soluble) layer that helps your pieces release from the mold...easier.

Flash-FX

12-03-2006, 09:11 PM

Ok..now this should take care of that mag pump issue.:cheer:

Scorn800

12-03-2006, 09:15 PM

Outstanding build. Good luck with it.
Real nice motor package.

Slug

12-04-2006, 02:33 AM

WOW there's some serious mumbo there. :headbang: How does it go?

DR3

12-04-2006, 06:22 AM

yea hows that thing run!?!?!

Flash-FX

12-11-2006, 07:42 AM

WOW there's some serious mumbo there. :headbang: How does it go?

To describe the boat in 1 word....SICK. The water temp yesterday was in the low 40's,:bigeyes: so there was no messing around there. My .5mm JP wetsuit felt like a windbreaker. The motor ran really strong for the brief carb adjustments. The pump is awesome! I think I need go lower on the pitch spread, 13-18 seems a little to tall. Right out of the hole it is a little sluggish where I would like more zip. (85mm nozzle with the shortest Wet Wolf shuttle). This thing is WAY faster top end than my old boat that did like maybe 51-52 mph.

And no, I didn't go swimming.:cheer:

special fx

12-12-2006, 08:55 PM

Schweet!!

sjaholic

04-13-2007, 02:17 AM

awesome skills!

Bonzia Bob

04-13-2007, 09:31 AM

Try the scat swirl 12/17, it woke ours up. Nice to see it on the water, now if we could just get the FX-66e done:thinking:

To describe the boat in 1 word....SICK. The water temp yesterday was in the low 40's,:bigeyes: so there was no messing around there. My .5mm JP wetsuit felt like a windbreaker. The motor ran really strong for the brief carb adjustments. The pump is awesome! I think I need go lower on the pitch spread, 13-18 seems a little to tall. Right out of the hole it is a little sluggish where I would like more zip. (85mm nozzle with the shortest Wet Wolf shuttle). This thing is WAY faster top end than my old boat that did like maybe 51-52 mph.

And no, I didn't go swimming.:cheer:

onesojourner

04-13-2007, 01:33 PM

now that was one impressive read. good job.

Flash-FX

04-14-2007, 02:03 PM

Thanks....So far it's been a long cold winter and refined carb tuning/testing has been put on the back burner. Soon..hopefully, very soon I will be able to post some hull handling reports.

Thanks for the tip Bob. Are you using a mag pump with a 12-17 swirl? I bought the 13-18 because it looked like most guys found it to be a good all around pitch. One of the problems with the low end response (on the first ride) turned out to be a overly rich low end pop-off setting. The Full Specs were said to have been 'pre-set' and ready to run. :bs2: . BTW, what's with the cad plated carb base screws from Full Spectrum?

meatball

04-14-2007, 07:42 PM

just read all this for the first time, and all I can say is WOW! I just recently got up on vacuum bagging. Seeing all this is really making me want to get a junk sqaure and making a carbon copy. If you dont mind sharing, would you mind PM'ing me how much you had into materials for the mold and hull you popped out? (consumables and epoxies, btw, how much epoxy did you use for the hull?, glass, carbon etc.)

I'm really curious and would love to try making a 2-part mold for a sqaure next winter.

Please lemme know, I'm dying to know, and really wanna try this sometime

Also, just a question, why epoxy? As far as I've read, polyester is 90 percent as good, and 5 times cheaper. Secondary bonding on the stock hulls requires it, but since YOU made the hull, why epoxy? Just curious, seems like it would save a lotta cash.

Thanks a ton! GREAT read as well!

Flash-FX

04-15-2007, 09:50 AM

Here's some interesting reading material for the guys that want to mess around with the molding process. :sneaky: PVA is like a double edged knife at times. But when you figure out how to apply it correctly, it's good stuff. :cheer:

GeordieBoyKel

11-08-2008, 06:29 AM

Wow... Just WOW... That is one mad ski... Very Impressive..! Well done fella...

hardcore

11-12-2008, 09:14 AM

If it ever comes up for sale, i will drive to buy it.

Flash-FX

11-12-2008, 09:36 AM

I will be at the 09 Daytona freeride along with the FX-1 guys...stop by.

Roo

11-12-2008, 02:47 PM

I will be at the 09 Daytona freeride along with the FX-1 guys...stop by.

You really need to show off that little hood project of yours! :sneaky:

Flash-FX

11-12-2008, 08:27 PM

You really need to show off that little hood project of yours! :sneaky:

Roo, did you see this from last year? http://www.x-h2o.com/showthread.php?t=32056 I really didn't get into all the mold/plug details, but who cares about that anyway. It's been almost a year and it's still looking good (no more latch issues...yea!).

Roo

11-12-2008, 08:37 PM

Roo, did you see this from last year? http://www.x-h2o.com/showthread.php?t=32056 I really didn't get into all the mold/plug details, but who cares about that anyway. It's been almost a year and it's still looking good (no more latch issues...yea!).

We all care! :cool2:

You emailed me pictures of the process back in the spring, most impressive! I totally over looked that post though!

My project fell apart... when my house fell apart. Late winter/early spring was a disaster for me.

turbo626

11-23-2008, 08:07 PM

sick build. Took me an hour and two beers to finish. I will stop by at daytona. You Jersey guys always have some interesting stuff going on.

FxOne

11-23-2008, 11:16 PM

do you still have the mold?

Flash-FX

11-24-2008, 10:18 AM

do you still have the mold?

Yep, It needs a little clean up. Still experimenting with some other stuff too.

Fearlessnuts

11-24-2008, 02:15 PM

I just looked through this build... its off the hook! holy crap amazing stuff man. WOW

dbrutherford

11-24-2008, 02:20 PM

Man I can't believe I missed this thread two years ago. I would really like to make my own hull one day...

Motoman25

01-20-2009, 02:07 PM

Flash-FX

01-23-2009, 06:37 PM

we were parked next to you guys on saturday at daytona.

there are a lot of little touches on your fx-1's that took a while to notice..

i spent a while just staring. really nice skiis in the jersey fx-1 mafia.

I just caught this...The Long Island guys are cool....I was freezing Saturday.

Some latest enhancements...Multi-layer, full length sponsons.

http://i693.photobucket.com/albums/vv292/Flash-FX/IMG_9158.jpg