Future of the "SPOT" debate begins

[FlightPlanDan]

Thought you guys might be interested. Finally some talk about Summer Haven Creek.
"Talk" (key word)
But it appears that all of the locals, be they fisherman, shellfish leasers, property owners, are with us on this one.
If nothing is done an EPIC spot could be gone.

This was in yesterday's paper.

http://staugustine.com/news/local-news/2011-02-26/death-waterway

It's kinda long.. but it's a start.

[Sanoman]

And to think it could have been fixed originally for $10,000 grand. lt's a shame that no one got there act together when it happened.

[FlightPlanDan]

And to think it could have been fixed originally for $10,000 grand. lt's a shame that no one got there act together when it happened.

Now we're gonna have to ask Obama to fire up the printing presses again...Nobody gots no money!
Funny. Those of us that enjoy the area knew in 2008 that this was nothing less than a crisis.
And (to suck up to those evil liberals)....an environmental disater!

[Aircraftsalz]

Great write up,

It sure sucks what's happened.... At this rate in 6 months the spot will be real hard to get out!

[FlightPlanDan]

Great write up,

It sure sucks what's happened.... At this rate in 6 months the spot will be real hard to get out!

Well, I think I read that a study will be done. That should move some sand. lol.

My coucher buds rode a week ago Sat. (full moon) Couldn't get out at low tide. Called me to tell me so. Like I'm that Mummy guy that can move sand! lol!

[butti]

i read an article two years ago that said funds were in place and the project would be done by the end of 2010... i wonder wtf happened?

ill have to see if i can find it. not that it matters.

[butti]

btw, this really sucks. cant launch the pontoon boat there anymore until its fixed.

[FlightPlanDan]

i read an article two years ago that said funds were in place and the project would be done by the end of 2010... i wonder wtf happened?

ill have to see if i can find it. not that it matters.

I remember you telling me that. I don't know what happened either.....well, I can assume it was a matter of finance.

I wasn't at the meeting, but a good friend was. The only opposition (she said) was from environmentalists that demanded that nature take it's course.

Thankfully, there were enough people there with some knowledge of the inlet who responded, "the inlet area has not been natural for decades....since the army corp of engineers dug the new intracoastal and closed off rattlesnake island."
God bless those voices!
I would have been there, but I didn't even here of it til it was over.

[FlightPlanDan]

btw, this really sucks. cant launch the pontoon boat there anymore until its fixed.


Not at low tide on a full/new moon. Might sneak thru otherwise.

BTW: used the word EPIC in the original post.....just for you! lol.

[FlightPlanDan]

Also: this was the Front Page pic and article.

But a nuclear bomb could go off in New York, and The St. Augustine Record would run a story about an arts & crafts show at the state park on the front page.

[Rickster]

Ok, let's play devils advocat here...

This is a natural occurring phenomenon originally caused by tropical storm fay....

So why do we think something is broke to the point that we need to fix it?

Honestly, the arrogance of the human race is amazing...

[Boris]

I believe the eco-nazi sub-plot was answered earlier in post #8.

[Rickster]

I believe the eco-nazi sub-plot was answered earlier in post #8.

No, that was an excuse as to why they should dredge the channel back and fix the breach.....

I believe the inlet has moved considerably south in the last l200 years, and maybe mother nature is giving us the finger...

I don't care either way and the state of Florida definitely does not have the $$$ to do it anyways, like I said just playing the devils advocate...

***and I pour enough emissions in the air to definitely not qualify as an eco-nazi***

[FlightPlanDan]

Ok, let's play devils advocat here...

This is a natural occurring phenomenon originally caused by tropical storm fay....

So why do we think something is broke to the point that we need to fix it?

Honestly, the arrogance of the human race is amazing...


Your Query is legit!

This might be a bit lengthy.

The area that broke thru from the ocean into Summer Haven creek has broken thru before. Maps from the late 1700's show it, and name it "the Pinion' inlet".

It is a natural occurrance. But the inlet area is not "natural" anymore.
The inlet used to go straight thru what is now known as Rattlesnake Island. The Intracoastal waterway used this path. However, large vessels and barges could not make the turn to the west on certain tides because of the extreme currents. Moorings were put in place for these vessels to tie off to while they waited for the tide to slack.

The army corps of engineers decided to block off the natural flow thru rattlesnake island and dig a new intracoastal waterway behind it. (the waterway behind the fort is man made).

Summer Haven Creek has been there thru it all.

Now, the currents are not there for it to restore itself because of the army corps work. This is the first time it has happened (Fay,2008) and the creek has not been able to restore itself.

I believe the arrogance lies in the hands and minds of the engineers that believed that the pitiful bit of commerce that travels down this area of the intracoastal waterway warrented this massive mistake in the face of nature.

Can it be "put back"? yea... but it ain't gonna happen.

The answer?: Dredge the f'ing creek. Build a proper seawall.



I did my best to explain. If it's not clear, feel free to question or pm.

[FlightPlanDan]

Frontflip anyone? lol.

[Aircraftsalz]

Frontflip anyone? lol.

Really makes you get ready shoooooting that small cut now days....

[Sanoman]

Hey Dano! You still workin every day?

l wanted to ask about coming out of the Spot.From where we have put in in the last few years,do you have very little room (side to side) till you get to the bridge? After reading Josh's post,it made me wonder...........

[FlightPlanDan]

Still able. Just a bit tricky at low tide.

[Idok]

were good for aother year.....then going to be a problem

[tipafew]

Ha.....brings back memories. Was down there riding with freestylegeek in college when we happened across this great little boat launch and riding spot. Many years later the X started and we started hearing people talk about this place called "the spot".

My battery died while we were out riding. Matt was towing me in at about 20mph when I noticed it looked like it was getting really shallow. Next thing we knew we were both heading over our bars.

[FlightPlanDan]

My wife said that she read somewhere that there is a plan to dredge Summer Haven creek. I'm trying to get the info. I guess the main issue is where to put the sand. Evidently ocean sand is different than inshore sand and mixing the different kinds is like mixing acids and bases, lol.,,,

[Aircraftsalz]

That would be great.... If somethings not done its going to be very hard to use the ramp without 4 guys to carry ski's over the sand bar, lol

[FlightPlanDan]

And the fisherman love that 8 foot wide bottle-neck on the outgoing tide! 3 boats were clogging the only way out last Saturday. Had to walk the ski's thru them. But that's O.K, because they love us sooooo much! lol.

[FlightPlanDan]

Found the article....sounds good til the last sentence.

http://staugustine.com/news/local-news/2011-05-21/port-revive-summer-haven-river

[Aircraftsalz]

From the sounds of it looks like we will be carring ski's these days!

[FlightPlanDan]

Today is a wrenching day...But I took a ride down this morning with my coffee.
On the intracoastal side of the parking area there is now a ramp built from the top of the sea wall to the water...with a dredge pipe secured on it. There is also a 20 yard construction dumpster.

Not sure what is being done.

[FlightPlanDan]

Jay found this...Sounds as if it has nothing to do with Summer Haven creek... Only the navagable ICW.

http://cruisersnet.net/dredging-to-begin-in-the-aicw-at-matanzas-inlet-statute-mile-795/

There are other links, but my computer seems to dislike them.

[FlightPlanDan]

Spoke with Karen M. (owner of Devil's Elbow)

A permit was issued to take core samples to make sure the sand that has filled the creek is compatible with the sand on the ocean side of Old A1A. (where it came from)

The Autobon Society (not sure that I spelled that right), filed suit and got the sampling stopped because of nesting birds on the new "beach" area.

Shortly after, unusually high tides wiped out the nesting areas.

Core sampling is now allowed to continue....to make sure the sand is O.K to go back where it came from.

This is part of the study.
Although it is being sought after at all levels of gov't as well as privately, there is still no funding to get the creek flowing again.....available from any source, no matter the results of the study.

[FlightPlanDan]

Kinda funny...
A few years back, driving vehicles around the north side of the inlet became illegal due to nesting birds. You could walk, or beach your ski, just can't drive there anymore because of the nesting birds...Plovers etc...nest out in the open sand.

This cut back on the humans in a big way...(it's a long walk)

A few years later a study concluded that the "open sand nesting bird population had been wiped out". It seems that the lack of PEOPLE made the raccoons and other predators more likely to have eggs for breakfast....or lunch...or dinner.

BACKFIRE!

People are part of the environment...like it or not.

[Idok]

the sandbar is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be....Ive seen a handful of large outboards pass right over (as long as its not DEAD low tide) with nothing more than a trim up..

little sands would be a perfect place for that sand..there is NOTHING there but a handful of gopher turtles

[FlightPlanDan]

the sandbar is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be....Ive seen a handful of large outboards pass right over (as long as its not DEAD low tide) with nothing more than a trim up..

little sands would be a perfect place for that sand..there is NOTHING there but a handful of gopher turtles

True...It's not been a real issue since the first few front-flips. And.. the sandbar directly in front of the launch area seems to have gotten smaller...(a bit)

Where is Little-sands? I've heard that there is no wildlife there at all! lol.

[FlightPlanDan]

might help?

http://staugustine.com/news/local-news/2011-12-01/conch-wreaking-havoc-oyster-beds

[FlightPlanDan]

I wish that I had known about this petition sooner. Most of the signatures are from September 2010.
I'm gonna sign it.

I hope a bunch of you do as well. Ya never know!

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/summerhavenriver/

[Idok]

True...It's not been a real issue since the first few front-flips. And.. the sandbar directly in front of the launch area seems to have gotten smaller...(a bit)

Where is Little-sands? I've heard that there is no wildlife there at all! lol.


little sands is about 500yards south of big sands....you cannot see little sands from the launch, its behind some trees......Ill show ya sometime you crawl thru the brush and there's this huge expanse of land with NOTHING there

gopher turtles and a bobcat is all ive ever seen there....seen deer tracks as well

[butti]

I wish that I had known about this petition sooner. Most of the signatures are from September 2010.
I'm gonna sign it.

I hope a bunch of you do as well. Ya never know!

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/summerhavenriver/




done.

[FlightPlanDan]

Do ya think this petition would do better posted in the "general" section?
It might not do anything...kind of old, but may get a bunch more to sign it.

[FlightPlanDan]

Spoke with Karen Miles today. "Friends of the Summer Haven River" is fully legit. The site that hosts the petition, (ipetitions), I have no way to know about.

The core sampling is done and the sand that came from the beach is o.k. to go back to the beach. Imagine that. But, St. Johns County won't even apply for the permit to dredge based upon the input of Jan Brewer: (environmental dept. head).

What is interesting....on her weekends she counts birds for the Audubon Society! This is the person that holds the fate of the river in her hands. Local politics.................

[FlightPlanDan]

Rec'd this e-mail...

Big day for the River!!!!! Just letting you know that the Port voted unanimously yesterday to be the applicant on the Summer Haven River permit and have commissioned Taylor Engineering to start the application to restore the dunes and re-open the Summer Haven River. We are going to need help along the way from the Friends of the River. We are very excited about this development. It is a big move forward.
Linda and Jay

[Aircraftsalz]

Way to go... I guess I can start riding there again... Havent rode there since I seen Bill go over the bars... That was priceless!

[FlightPlanDan]

It's not a done deal yet...but definately a positive thing!

The petitions were a factor, but "don't stop"...is what I was told.
The internet petition currently has only 228 sigs. The paper petition well over 2000 sigs. So much for technology! lol.

[FlightPlanDan]

From the north side...

http://staugustine.com/news/local-news/2012-07-24/beach-driving-supporters-blast-opponents

[Sanoman]

l totally understand maintaining the environment in it's natural state,but beach mice,please let's save them little bastards! lol

[FlightPlanDan]

Rec'd this e-mail today....

Dear Friends of the Summer Haven River,
We are very excited to tell you that the permit to restore the Summer Haven River has been submitted to the Department of Environmental Protection. It is a Joint Coastal Permit which will include the Army Corps of Engineers.
There will be a comment period where we will ask each of you to email the person in charge of the permit to let him/her know of your support for the project. There may be opposition so it will be very important for you to write.
The permit is a work in progress and we welcome your input. to view the permit go the the Fla. Dept. of Environmental Protection website. The Joint Coastal Permit is in the Beaches and Shores Program under St. Johns County "pending permits": http://www.dep.state.fl.us/beaches/permitting/st-johns.htm
The Friends have contributed quite a bit toward the Application including a History Book (152 pages), Biological Summary, 1200 Petition signatures and many photos-thanks to YOU.
We need to also thank the Port Authority for being the Applicant on this project and the many ways they have helped us:
Barry Benjamin,Commissioner E-mail: Barry.Benjamin@staugustineport.com
Herb Rippe , Commissioner E-mail: hrippe@staugustineport.com
Jerry Dixon, Chairman E-mail: Jerry.Dixon@staugustineport.com
Tom Rivers, Vice-Chairman - Commissioner

E-mail: Tom.Rivers@staugustineport.com
Jay Bliss, Commissioner
E-Mail: Jay.Bliss@staugustineport.com

We have several events planned for the near future and will keep you updated. Thanks to all of you who have contributed so much!!!!
Jay and Linda

[Sanoman]

Keeping my fingers crossed Dan! Maybe it will happen!

[FlightPlanDan]

Sands shift with each tide and storm. Have not had any real trouble getting out at low...but it's inches from the involuntary front flip! lol.

[Sanoman]

Sands shift with each tide and storm. Have not had any real trouble getting out at low...but it's inches from the involuntary front flip! lol.

l heard you and butti have an "awesome" front flip! any vid?

[FlightPlanDan]

This was in the news. FCN also did a report on the news at 5:30 today, watched it, but nothing on the web yet.

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/video/1535249297001/1/Summer-Haven-River-Under-Siege

[FlightPlanDan]

The coments kill me.
http://staugustine.com/news/local-news/2012-08-22/sand-filling-matanzas-inlet-affecting-local-business

[FlightPlanDan]

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/article/269926/3/River-restoration-project-concerns-some-birding-experts-

[Dmac80sc]

Ha! I got to experience the "involuntary front flip" lol But that was right by the launch place.

[sportfish258]

I hear the Greens / Autobahn society now .......... Stop the dredging NOW ! RICH people are killing the birds . It is so incredibly stupid , the nesting area was never there until the storm changed the landscape ....... The TAX PAYERS / community have the right restore THEIR property without the F... ing whatever society getting their nose in it. These people never let up and will fight you to the end no matter how simple the solution is .

[FlightPlanDan]

River benefit.....
It's a word doc...giving me trouble..



SummerHavenRiver Restoration Benefit
Wine, Cheese and Art






Silent Auction with items such as:
Football Tickets
Beach House Stay
Guided Fishing
Carriage Tour









Art Sale & Exhibit

featuring Bill Puckett, Jeanie Fitzpatrick , C.B. Hinson, and Sally Raulerson


Ken Barrett-Photos
Onw




September 9, 20123:30-7:00

Hammock Wine and Cheese Shoppe
5368 North Oceanside Boulevard
Hammock (PalmCoast)
Additional Parking Sun Trust across street



Summer Haven River Restoration Benefit
Wine, Cheese and Art





Silent Auction with items such as:
Football Tickets
Beach House Stay
Guided Fishing
Carriage Tour







Art Sale & Exhibitfeaturing Bill Puckett, Jeanie Fitzpatrick , C.B. Hinson, and Sally Raulerson


Ken Barrett-Photos

Onw



September 9, 2012 3:30-7:00

Hammock Wine and Cheese Shoppe
5368 North Oceanside Boulevard
Hammock (Palm Coast)
Additional Parking Sun Trust across street

[FlightPlanDan]

St. Auggie had some coastal flood warnings,,, no storm, just big fall tides + wind. Took some pis.
If the river finds a new coarse, it looks as if it might be very close to A1A.

The last 2 are the road into the spot. It was actually higher during Sandy.

[Sanoman]

Been nice to have seen the waves bust through on your first pic! Saved the state a lot of money to return it to it's
"natural" state!

[FlightPlanDan]

Had a rough day at work. Needed My "Zen Beer" or two.... at the spot.
I guess, although I've been riding, I've not caught it on a dead-low tide.
Holy Crap! It's a tight squeeze, s-turn, avoid the oyster-bed exit from the mouth of the creek/river ...lol.
Front-flips are very do-able at low tide.

Still my favorite place to ride!!!

[FlightPlanDan]

Latest follows:

RE: Permit to Restore the Summer Haven River from the Friends of the Summer Haven River Advisory Board

Dear Friends of the Summer Haven River,
The permit to restore the Summer Haven River is under review by the agency contacts listed below. As far as we now know, the only issue stopping the permit from being issued is the Least Tern (state-listed as a threatened species) colony that has nested in the riverbed for the last three years for 3-4 months out of the year. The riverbed is rapidly vegetating and the birds only like 15% vegetation of their area. For this reason, in a couple of years the birds will not want to nest there. In addition, the more vegetation in the area, the more predators will move in. Finally, in 2011, 36 birds were flight-capable using 5 acres. In 2012, 7 birds were flight-capable using 11 acres. This just shows that the size of the area does not necessarily contribute to producing birds that make it to maturity.Because these birds are listed as threatened and there are rules about threatened bird habitat, Taylor Engineering re-drew the plans for the river restoration to allow 3 acres of sandy habitat for the birds. There was not room to provide any more sand in the river than that because the flow of the river would be hindered otherwise. So basically, we are 3 acres vs. 11 acres short of a permit.
Another consideration is all the other birds (some of them threatened), fish and wildlife the open river supported. The river also supported manatees and sea turtles which are state and federally listed as endangered (endangered is a higher level of concern than threatened). Our group offered to help restore degraded habitat in other areas of St. Johns County the birds used to use, but those offers were declined. Our group also offered to build rafts to float in the river during nesting season which have produced successful nesting in Fort De Soto: http://www.wtsp.com/news/topstories/article/259054/250/Bird-rafts-a-success-at-Fort-De-Soto
Finally, we asked agency owners of spoil islands if we could help to provide habitat there, but the answer was "no". One point we also need to mention is that the Least Terns have nested in St. Johns County on rooftops at Winn Dixie, Bealls Outlet, St. Johns County Jail, Publix and the American Inn.
You all know the environmental, historic, recreational, economic and safety value of the river (a summary points sheet is attached). Here is a recent special on Action News about the oysters:http://www.firstcoastnews.com/video/2207858534001/1/Shucks-Oyster-business-getting-tougher
One thing that has also been brought to our attention is the recent accident in Matanzas Inlet and the concern for Search and Rescue boats to be able to get out of the Inlet in case of an offshore accident. It has now been proven scientifically that the closing of the Summer Haven River has greatly contributed to the shoaling in Matanzas Inlet (something we have been saying for a long time).
So after this long-winded explanation, what we need from each of you is an email to each of the following 4 contacts at the agencies stating where you live, why YOU think the river should be restored and asking them to issue the permit. Thank you for your support!
Please include the number of the permit in you emails.
USCOE Permit Number SAJ-2012-02400
Permit Number JCP 0313002 Summer Haven River Restoration

Mark Evans: Mark.R.Evans@usace.army.mil (http://usace.army.mil/)Danielle Irvin: Danielle.Irwin@dep.state.fl.usTom Jacobs: Thomas.Jacobs@dep.state.fl.usScott Sanders: scott.sanders@myfwc.com

[sportfish258]

All this over 11 birds..... What can you write to these eco morons Dan..... My advice is find out what will rip the Sh$$ out their nest and and release a bunch of them in the area. Coons , mink , fire ants what ever you name it.

[FlightPlanDan]

I've quit trying to make sense of it.
The "flowing river" benefits numerous "endangered species", whereas, the "clogged river" benefits birds that you can literally count on your fingers. Not "endangered birds", just "threatened" birds.

Either way, I've got a pretty bad feeling. We are depending upon the enviro's to open up the river.
It would not be a surprise to me if they opened it up and decide that we can't use it anymore.