nose stab help

[CarFanatic]

I"m trying to learn nose stabs, my problem isn't the rotation, its getting the nose down, I cant seem to spin and have the nose dive down, I came close a couple times yesterday, most of my spins end up being flat instead of nose down. I prolly need to throw my wait foreward more.. do I need to pull up harder with my feet, while I lean foreward?

[MADMAT]

IMO its all how you leave the wave. The ski is going to do what it is going to do once it leaves the wave. It is really the only big thing I can do and they just flow if you leave the wave right. No force needed. As a matter of fact...that is when I hurt my self.

[Cliff]

some people can really hang it out like they are in slow motion and it looks so cool. im not one of them people. ive always been told to try to lean over the gas cap

[AtomicPunk]

pull your feet up and lean over the front.

[rollin5150]

IMO its all how you leave the wave. The ski is going to do what it is going to do once it leaves the wave. It is really the only big thing I can do and they just flow if you leave the wave right. No force needed. As a matter of fact...that is when I hurt my self.

I think Madmat has it right. I am still getting them down but found that my problem was when I left the wave. For the longest time when I jumped I tended to level off the craft in the air for the landing. When doing stabs, I rotated flat like you described. Now I try to leave the wave nose high. Now when I rotate I am more verticle than horizonal and let the rotational motion turn my nose down.

[701superjet]

hit a wave that almost about to break......

[cmeripper26]

It really is how you leave the wave, as soon as i ride up about to leave the lip i cut the bars and tend to lean over the chin pad a bit, 9 out of 10 times im coming down with the nose being the first thing to dive in! You can also steer into nose stabs, this helps a bit to when first learning.

[CarFanatic]

unfortunatly, I am doing these off my set up wakes, since I ride flat water. I think what I'm gathering is its how you leave the wake. So Maybe I should try riding straight up the wave nose high then crank the bars as the rear is about to leave? Right now I ride in to the wave and crank the bars, with gas right as the nose is hitting the wave.

[MADMAT]

I can't do anything on flat except get hurt.

I kinda head at them but then turn and use the wave to fling me up, out, and over.

[CarFanatic]

waves like that would be nice! I dont have that here in cincinnati :no:

[MADMAT]

I know man....I'm just sayin......hell we don't have them here in Cleveland.

I want to live in Daytona or Virginia Beach bad!!!

[cmeripper26]

I ride a little flat water, when i hit a nose stab off my own wake i ride straight kinda slow then turn around into it real fast then i hit my wake on a slight angle and cut the bars into the wake direction as soon as i ride up the lip. Sounds like you have the right concept, keep it up..... good luck

[sxi4evr]

the pic shows how i do my setup wakes. the wake you hit will be the second wake. i think its impossible to hit the first unless ur gonna try a backflip.

ur body position will be kinda like in the pic. keep the pole low, feet in the holds, and go just below plane speed.

watch this vid for body positioning...
YouTube - 750 sx-f freestyle
is just how I do them. other people might do em differentley.

[cookerq62]

Learn them without a setup wake just a slight pre hop than big bunny hop. When I first tried them off setup wakes I would end up doing either a half roll or like a tail stab like your talking about. Then I tried without a wake and it was much easier. You really have to point/rotate your shoulders and upper body back where you want the nose to go. Then you bring your feet and hips around to follow.

[CoreyLKN]

Ive always found it easier to just do it this way:

-Id go staight out at a speed to give me a nice good wake
-Quick 180 going back the way i just came
-Id do a small little pre hop to the right
-Then Id grab the Throttle and crank the bars HARD Left
-Make sure you throw your weight toward the gas cap
-and if i wanted to go nose in, id push the tail of the ski out a little bit

Its late and im tired so i dont know if that made sense but it sure did to me haha

[Frosty]

Learn them without a setup wake just a slight pre hop than big bunny hop. When I first tried them off setup wakes I would end up doing either a half roll or like a tail stab like your talking about. Then I tried without a wake and it was much easier. You really have to point/rotate your shoulders and upper body back where you want the nose to go. Then you bring your feet and hips around to follow.

Right on bro! on flat water I never use a set up wake to nose stab... it's actually easier to just bunny hope once then pop... as you leave the water cut the bar so the thrust of your ski kicks the back end around and use your ass/legs to help lead the ski up and around. Doing a nose stab you want your body to lead. I attached this pic to show where my body is in relation to the the ski in the rotation of a NS. I started doing them one handed and use the other hand to reach... it almost forces your body to pull the ski around.

surf is much easier... takes very little body english to get the ski around.

everyone has their own way to learn and do tricks, you'll have to find which way works best for you.

[CarFanatic]

I think after watching that vid, I"m getting pretty close, I just want it to be more of a lawn dart type fall back into the water.. just gotta keep working at it I guess..

[701superjet]

I think after watching that vid, I"m getting pretty close, I just want it to be more of a lawn dart type fall back into the water.. just gotta keep working at it I guess..

lawn dart..... what does that mean?

[JJC568]

the pic shows how i do my setup wakes. the wake you hit will be the second wake. i think its impossible to hit the first unless ur gonna try a backflip.

ur body position will be kinda like in the pic. keep the pole low, feet in the holds, and go just below plane speed.

watch this vid for body positioning...
is just how I do them. other people might do em differentley.

Luke thanks for the setup wake info. Thats something i am still struglling on. I am getting Upside down on my rolls but not all the way around. I just have hard time timing the set up wake. But your little picture will help


Learn them without a setup wake just a slight pre hop than big bunny hop. When I first tried them off setup wakes I would end up doing either a half roll or like a tail stab like your talking about. Then I tried without a wake and it was much easier. You really have to point/rotate your shoulders and upper body back where you want the nose to go. Then you bring your feet and hips around to follow.

I agree i learned stabs in the surf but when i first tried flatwater i used the bunny hop technigue. I cut the bars right at the end and lift with the feet a little and put my body over the pole.

[sxi4evr]

is this what you mean by "lawn dart"?

[CarFanatic]

is this what you mean by "lawn dart"?

yes!! I cant get that position! Thats what I"m trying for!

[cookerq62]

My problem is not getting into that position its riding away clean. I always end up sinking the nose way too deep then the ski 'bobs' up uncontrollably and I end up tipping over or I have to take a leg out of the tray. The only times I get it right is when I kick my legs out at the last second. Riding out I almost have to do a power 180. Riding out straight ends up in a tailstand.

[Frosty]

once the ski planes out under water, get back on the throttle and you'll emerge from the water like that ghost ship in the pirates of the Caribbean.


this is how mine used to turn out until I learned to get on the gas more...

YouTube - nose stab

[CarFanatic]

frosty, thats looks similar to the bronco 180.. you just crank the bars there with gas to do that?

[Frosty]

frosty, thats looks similar to the bronco 180.. you just crank the bars there with gas to do that?

bunny hop, pin throttle, crank bars and kick your ass around.

[CarFanatic]

I will try next time out!

[Ericfox]

try a bronco 180- nose stab with no wake or prehop....

dont worry about pulling your feet up or body position so much... dont try to pull your feet up actually.... the ski has to do the work... go straight just enough to get out on plane..... then turn the bars to the right and when you just barely dig the nose in as you turn the bars right - gas it! and at the same time crank the bars left... dont pull your feet up or go crazy trying to whip the ski around with your body.... the ski will pretty much do its own thing... try it... it will take a while to get the right combo of speed, turning of bars, and timing... but you'll get it eventually...

once you figure out how to do these you can do regular nose stabs and do rolls with about 1/2 the practice that you would have to do starting from scratch...

[CarFanatic]

cool, I figued nose stab, and bronce 180 would be my best bet to progress to trying rolls. we should meet up some where and ride soon.

[Ericfox]

yeah for sure man... we'll get something going in the next few weeks hopefully

[CarFanatic]

cool

[GIL]

cool

Dude-u r makin all the same mistakes I made for a long time-KISS-keep it simple stupid!!!

flat water-smooth

just above idle speed barely on plane

very SMALL prehop slightly to the right

as nose goes down to the right-crank the bars all the way left and pin the throttle and GET YO AZZ AGAINST THE BARS AND KEEP IT THERE!!! Literally pretend u r dry humping your handle bars and keep your head as far forward as it will go!!!

The guy that made me figure it out said

a lil hop to the right and a big hop to the left and kiss the gas cap-it worked like a charm!

[CoreyLKN]

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a396/eastcoastbdr14/vbnn.jpg

This is basically what my stabs/bronco 180's/whatever you call them looked like...

[chrisdoc0608]

It all comes down to commitment. When I was learning them I would puss out and back off a bit and always eat sh!t, as soon as I began to just go for it and not back out it was really easy. I also agree that a setup wake is not necessary, I like to get a nice speed then throw the weight of the ski off a bit with a pre hop then crank the bars and nail the throttle and the ski does all the work.

[701superjet]

its all personal preference....personally i cant do a stab without a set-up wake.

commitment is key tho

[CarFanatic]

going to try some of these tips this weekend hopefully.. Guess I'll try with out the set up wake. I dont always get a good set up wake anyways!

[MADMAT]

Great pics here IMO


http://www.x-h2o.com/showthread.php?p=742104&posted=1#post742104

[yamanube]

I found the best help for stabs is to lock the steering and pin the throttle sooner than you think you should, I had a hard time getting over it and had to put way more effort into stabs, doing everything earlier gives you more kick/rotation. As soon as you land from the prehop (the millisecond a single inch of your ski touches the water) full lock and full throttle.
Here is a stupid little video I made last year, midway through is a stab off of a ripple, ignore the rest.
http://pwctoday.com/attachments/f89/144081d1228506533-quick-clip-shanes-helmet-cam-quickskiclip.wmv

[CarFanatic]

nice! I cant wait till I can pull that off!

[701superjet]

youll get it, especially with that nice new x-scream set up u got!!!!!

[yamanube]

nice! I cant wait till I can pull that off!
Me too, after I put in my motor I am re-learning all the old tricks, I am just now getting back to that point (when I had a 701 with bolt ons) practice is where its at, riding with/watching others helps a LOT, 95% to get the balls to do it 5% to learn their technique.

[CarFanatic]

ya, I wish I got to ride more then I do! loving the xscream set up.

[CarFanatic]

well I wish I had a video camera to be able to watch what I look like. I tried the no set up wake today. I certainly get inverted real quick, I had so much rotation a couple times, that when the ski hit the water, it rotated me and the ski all the way around. I pretty much did head stabs all day... I think that the ski is rotating level, or flat, I"m not getting the arch that sends the nose in first.. I think I got closer off the set up wake.. fustrating, and hard on the head!

[yamanube]

if you are already that far ski the nosestab and go for rolls...

[CarFanatic]

I really want to learn the bronco 180.. my neck is freaking sore today.. I think its from my helmet jerking when I hit the water..

any more tips on how to rotate the nose down and in.

[JJC568]

trying lean farther over the pole

[Ericfox]

I really want to learn the bronco 180.. my neck is freaking sore today.. I think its from my helmet jerking when I hit the water..

any more tips on how to rotate the nose down and in.


Keep practicing man... if your neck hurts then thats a good thing! Means you're trying at least... it takes some patience to learn how your ski responds to your body position, throttle, how hard and far you crank the bars, etc... my neck was very sore and it took me about 3 weekends of hard practice to understand how everything worked together... after that its just keep practicing to get more consistant and better looking, more air, or whatever.... keep it up man... if I had to describe the feeling of getting it right- kind of keep yourself weightless over the ski... dont lean back... keep the ski on plane and try different speeds... turn the bars to the right and then crank to the left... just kinda keep your legs at their present position... dont pull up with your feet or the back end wont be up in the air for a vertical stab into the water... just keep trying... once you figure it out you'll be saying the same thing... you kinda just have to do it... its hard to describe how... especially since each ski that's setup for freestyle with very different features behaves differently... If you want to make a trip up to Akron area then you can ride with us this coming weekend... if not then we might venture down closer to columbus in a few weeks... its about a 3.5 hour drive from cinci.

[CarFanatic]

I think riding with you guys would help a lot. I remember watching you at pib, and you did them effortlessly with out much speed.. A camera would help a ton so I could see what I actually look like. As soon As I crank the bars back the other way, me and the ski are immediately upside down. so That parts easy, I just cant get that arch. I might try shortning my pole another inch, since mines adjustable.

[orangefinger]

If you do a straight sub u dont have problems pushing thge nose down right ?

I am practising at about the same level as you but going with the set up wake hence I have perfected the set up wake ...

I notice that you have to be A) High enough to get the nose back down
B) your body weight needs to be above the ski and towards the front and leaning to the outside of the jump HIPP AT BARS >> otherwise you land somewhat sideways and not with the nose down.

This is Russian but i think video helps more than words

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWF9xK9sQ-M

[JJC568]

good video!

[orangefinger]

thx < i thought so too, they actualy have more posted with some more tricks the slow mo really helps understand.

[JJC568]

ya for sure i think that will help me make mine look better.

[CarFanatic]

ya regular subs are easy..

I can do that, in the video.. I just cant get the sub where you disappeer under water..

[Glory_Freestyle]

This is a really, really old pic, but it might help with your positioning.

[CarFanatic]

how do you get that nose in position? when I do it my ski stays horizontal in the the air with out a set up wake.

[701superjet]

stoyer does some big stabs at 2:07 and and the end of the video

YouTube - Wamiltons Platinum Edition

[CarFanatic]

yes that one at 2:07 is what I am trying to do.. I dont know how he gets so much height of his set ups, plus if you watch that he like flys straight then all of a sudden he like whips it and the ski turns and dives in.

[Glory_Freestyle]

how do you get that nose in position? when I do it my ski stays horizontal in the the air with out a set up wake.

It's all in the body positioning and throttle.

Here's what I do when stabbing without a set-up wake.

1. Pre-hop ski.
2. As it hits the water, crank bars, grab a handfull of throttle, lean forward and towards the side/nose of the side you're stabbing to. You want to lean far enough forward so the bars are just about in your gut. This will get the nose down and the back-end up.

[Ericfox]

yes that one at 2:07 is what I am trying to do.. I dont know how he gets so much height of his set ups, plus if you watch that he like flys straight then all of a sudden he like whips it and the ski turns and dives in.

Looks at what he's doing with his body... nothing much... he just positions it at the begining of the trick and kinda just lets the ski do its thing.... notice how the ski whips itself around.... on a bronco 180 you need to dip to the right first... then when you crank left the ski just whips itself over and into the water... your body just follows the way you put the ski into motion pretty much... keep practicing this weekend... you'll get it.... and we'll be at the lake saturday so feel free to join if you feel like driving.... Later.

[701superjet]

its called practice people on the fourms arnt going to be able to describe to you how to do it you have to go out and keep trying


dont worry youll get it, besides stoyer rips not very many people can thrown down a flat water stab like that

[CarFanatic]

ya it is practice, but advice and tips help the learning process. I gotta figure out on the bronco 180 how to get the nose down, right now I roll upside down and tend to stay more flat then nose in. I think I'm making good progress though.

[cookerq62]

I was finally getting them solid off setup wakes. The key is make a 90deg turn to make your wake in the opposite direction you do the stab. So if you stab to the left like me:

1. turn right 90
2. go about 50 ft
3. 180 to the to the right and hit the wake

The best advice I can give for getting the nose down is to image your jumping over a fence and landing backwards. Thats how is feels when you get it right.

[CarFanatic]

cool! I"ll give it a try!

[w-nut]

not sure if this will help or not , but here is a pic off me just leaving the water doing a nose stab on my x2. head right forward and steering on full lock shoulders and head pointing in the direction i wont to go, and nose off the ski nice and high so as you rotate round 180deg it will be nose down and rear off the ski high as it moves round the axis

[CarFanatic]

ya, I'm getting better, I can rotate around I just need to find out how to do it higher and faster so I can go under water.

[ncbrock]

im in the same boat as you man, ive only done like a dozen out of my attempts. If you have your rotation down then practice pushing down on your pole towards the pivot like a sub, and pull your legs up, thats what i did and its getting better and better.