X2 Hull mods

[FL-cracker]

I am looking into buying a 93 x2 with a 650, Factory pipe, single 44, and a TDR waterbox. I relise that is probably only about 60hp.

I just wanted to here some opinions on what to do to the hull, I know I will be doing a hood mod 1st thing, and also bolting up my UMI Steering that I was gona use for my SJ fixed steer.

I know I will be cutting it down in the back. Next I need to decide wether I want to go with Tom's Tubbies, or the Crab mod, or both.

The only X2 I have ridden (other then when I was 5yrs old riding a stocker) is Pete Jacobs 840 at Daytona 08. I think he just had Tubbies on that boat? I thought it handeled freegggin AWSOME! It seemed as if I was able to lay it on its side just like him.

The boat Pete was riding this year was a all stock bottom right? He still was straight shreddin.

I dont think I can get talked out of this build, so lets here some opinions on what I should do. :cool2:

Thanks

[Boris]

All right, a Cracker X2. :Banane09:
Yep, this should be fun.

Can I ride it once it's done ?

[Wilke]

I have not ridden one with the nose filled, but it seems to be way more work than what it is worth. I'd just go with tubbies.

What do you plan on doing for power? keeping the 650 for a bit, or swapping it out immediately?

[FL-cracker]

I plan on rockin the 650 until I do a 701 swap some day.

Wilke, do you have tubbies on your ski? Is your ski running?

Lets ride sebby Tomorrow! I would like to try your ski... I am ready to ride.

[WFO Speedracer]

I wouldn't have one without the nose filled and tubbies,now let me clarify that some,I wouldn't really want to do another front hull mod either,it is a lot of dang work,your absolute best bet would be to get a front hull mod piece from Tom21,glue it screw it,backfill it wiht foam and glass it in,get a set of his front sponsons and install them at the same time.

[FL-cracker]

^^^^ Thats what I was thinking. But I dont think he has the front hull mod piece ready yet.... I may just do it my self.

[dbrutherford]

Don't you know some one in the composite business?

I think you will br pleased. A FPP and a 44 shopuld wake that engine up a little. They were liek 52 hp stock.


Welcome to the X2 world!

[Vumad]

^^^^ Thats what I was thinking. But I dont think he has the front hull mod piece ready yet.... I may just do it my self.

I sent you a PM. We can make it work for you.

[FL-cracker]

How about reinforcing? Tie in the upper and lower as you would a SJ?

Are the bottom decks pretty tuff? How about the steering mount area?

Looks like crab reinforced just like a SJ pretty much.... and I know Pete had some carnage where the seat sits too.

[WFO Speedracer]

Grind down the ribs on the top and reinforce the bond area just as you would on a Superjet,the steering area has an huge aluminum plate that is threaded for everything to bolt into,it needs nothing else,they do tend to crack under the seat,deal with that if and when it comes up.

[crab]

I probably wouldn't do another nose mod myself, but tubbies, reinforce, shorten, steering relocate, and tower reinforcment. They do tend to crack just in front of the steering post for some reason, I want to get rid of the supports and just beef up under the tower with glass. I would also like to do a different hood at some point to clean the look and save weight.

[FL-cracker]

^^^^ Man, I thought the front nose mod was the only way to go?

I wish Pete would jump in here and chime in.

[WFO Speedracer]

Crab has become rather wishy washy on the hull mod,I like it,I don't want to go back thats for sure,I do ride mostly flat water though,Crab is a surf guy,that may be the difference there.

[crab]

^^^^ Man, I thought the front nose mod was the only way to go?

I wish Pete would jump in here and chime in.
Just don't like all the spray, and its a lot of work. Other than that it works great.

[crab]

Crab has become rather wishy washy on the hull mod,I like it,I don't want to go back thats for sure,I do ride mostly flat water though,Crab is a surf guy,that may be the difference there.I wish I had cut the front off and made it come up higher so the front was not so blunt, but I was afraid..........

[FL-cracker]

Well, not doing the nose mod would save me alot of work. I think I will just go with Tom's tubbies then, and hack the back.

[WFO Speedracer]

I still say go with Tom21's nose piece it has all the benefits of the nose mod without all the work,its like lite beer,less filling and tastes great! Since I already have a boat with a hull mod I will be splashing it and making my own nose piece,I will however be using Toms front sponsons,they are the best thing going at this time bar none!

[crab]

More like this, and Petes hull pics.

[Wilke]

I plan on rockin the 650 until I do a 701 swap some day.

Wilke, do you have tubbies on your ski? Is your ski running?

Lets ride sebby Tomorrow! I would like to try your ski... I am ready to ride.

No tubbies on mine, YET. I need to get them, I just keep finding better (or worse) ways to spend the cash.

If you want to ride I'm down, ski was out in the river today and is running good.

[ADDict]

I wouldn't spend the time on the nose mod. If your going to ride it hard, rolls, etc. then all you need is to shorten the hull, and put some tubbies on it. Definitely reinforce the inside. Fill the corners under the inside of the hood lip all the way around, and fill the bondline. Shouldn't have to worry about the bottom deck. I've beaten the hell out of my hull and had zero problems there. I reinforced the inside of all the back end of mine also, where you mentioned pete had problems.
I'm running a two bar intake grate, no scoop, d cut stock rideplate and a stock sxr impeller cut to fit my pump and the hookup and handling is great. Turns on a dime and stays loaded.

[dbrutherford]

I think Pete had his hull cut out and a battery put in that area so that is why his cracked there. But mine is all stock, never beat hard on like you will do in the surf and it has a few hair line cracks in that area. I think the placement of the engine and the bulkhead cause this.

[crab]

I wouldn't spend the time on the nose mod. If your going to ride it hard, rolls, etc. then all you need is to shorten the hull, and put some tubbies on it. Definitely reinforce the inside. Fill the corners under the inside of the hood lip all the way around, and fill the bondline. Shouldn't have to worry about the bottom deck. I've beaten the hell out of my hull and had zero problems there. I reinforced the inside of all the back end of mine also, where you mentioned pete had problems.
I'm running a two bar intake grate, no scoop, d cut stock rideplate and a stock sxr impeller cut to fit my pump and the hookup and handling is great. Turns on a dime and stays loaded.What he said....:headbang::barrel:

[tom21]

IF I can make the bottom fill CHEAP AND EASY is it a worthwhile mod then???

[WFO Speedracer]

IF I can make the bottom fill CHEAP AND EASY is it a worthwhile mod then???

I give ten dollah ,you ship now yes?

[FL-cracker]

Alright, thanks addict and everyone else. Looks like I have just about all the info I need for now. I do plan on riding it just as hard as i ride my roundy :brap:

This turned out to be a good thread!

[WFO Speedracer]

Alright, thanks addict and everyone else. Looks like I have just about all the info I need for now. I do plan on riding it just as hard as i ride my roundy :brap:

This turned out to be a good thread!

Yep for some reason the X2 threads are pretty much drama -free,not sure why exactly.:27:

[shawn_NJ]

I have had an X2 with the nose mod and tubbie 2's. It handled awesome, but the nose mod is not really worth all the extra work. And the nose mod does make pretty killer splash back. Pete rode my lightweight @ daytona, which just has the nose mod but no tubbies and he shredded it! First thing he said when he came back to the beach was that it didnt need tubbies! For me, on a stock hull, tubbies made the handing much more forgiving when I land wrong, and lessen the unforgiving automatic "nose-into-sand" feature all X2's come equipt with. I do think you are going to hate the 650's power though.

[FL-cracker]

Alright, I am still not sure what I will end up doing now. The ski I am looking at already has the light weight TDR waterbox, and I will run a 2.3 gal kart tank, so that should help a little with the nose dive problem. I will also be running a 7lb battery, and with the little 650 motor the boat should be pretty light.... Just gotta figure out if Tom's tubbies will do a good enough job to keep the nose from going down, or if I need to do the nose mod also, or just do the nose mod wich sounds pretty good without tubbies...... I may just do the nose job myself.... foam is pretty easy to shap, and I have a alright eye for lines. chit, I realy dont know what to do now. lol

[WFO Speedracer]

Alright, I am still not sure what I will end up doing now. The ski I am looking at already has the light weight TDR waterbox, and I will run a 2.3 gal kart tank, so that should help a little with the nose dive problem. I will also be running a 7lb battery, and with the little 650 motor the boat should be pretty light.... Just gotta figure out if Tom's tubbies will do a good enough job to keep the nose from going down, or if I need to do the nose mod also, or just do the nose mod wich sounds pretty good without tubbies...... I may just do the nose job myself.... foam is pretty easy to shap, and I have a alright eye for lines. chit, I realy dont know what to do now. lol

This is precisely why I never come on here looking for advise.:nutkick:

[WaveDemon]

I can't tell you if toms nose or tubbies are better. I do know that the nose piece is going to be shipped pre-foamed to fit the hull (like a tubbie) and will cost less.

[tom21]

well if things work out the way I plan, you can do the nose mod later without any hassle.

its a lot of work but if i make it easier than installing tubbies why not go with it? plus it really won't be something to tough to undo if you hate it.

[WFO Speedracer]

well if things work out the way I plan, you can do the nose mod later without any hassle.

its a lot of work but if i make it easier than installing tubbies why not go with it? plus it really won't be something to tough to undo if you hate it.

As long as its not a $200.00 splashed non symmetrical piece of crap like Mark was trying to sell you should be golden!:Banane09:

[Vumad]

IF I can make the bottom fill CHEAP AND EASY is it a worthwhile mod then???

I've already did 90% of the work Tom. Stop being a slackass like me and lets finish the job! :twak:

[FL-cracker]

I think I will just start with Tom's tubbies then go from there. I will probably be satisfied.... I realy dont want to be getting splashed in the face. Especially if it's splashing into my eyeballs, that would suck.

What hull mods does Pete have on the General? He seemed to still kill it on that ski this year.... looks to be bone stock bottom
What hull mods did Pete's 840cc have at Daytona 08? Thats the only X2 I have to go by.... other then that ski feeling kinda heavy, I thought the handling was bad arse.

[shawn_NJ]

I think I will just start with Tom's tubbies then go from there. I will probably be satisfied.... I realy dont want to be getting splashed in the face. Especially if it's splashing into my eyeballs, that would suck.

What hull mods does Pete have on the General? He seemed to still kill it on that ski this year.... looks to be bone stock bottom
What hull mods did Pete's 840cc have at Daytona 08? Thats the only X2 I have to go by.... other then that ski feeling kinda heavy, I thought the handling was bad arse.

The General just has the rear foot area filled in (no bottom deck mods, stock). I am not 100% sure it wasn't shortened, but I really dont think it was.

The 840 was shortened and tubbied.

[wadman]

thats right.

The General wasn't shortened

and The 840 was shortened and tubbied.

[FL-cracker]

hmmm... I probably would be just fine with tubbies and shortened. Nose mod will come down the road if I decide I want to try something new.

Thanks guys for the help, I sent Pete a PM. I am shure he will lets us know what he thinks when he finds this.

[shawn_NJ]

hmmm... I probably would be just fine with tubbies and shortened.

Exactly, thats the best setup. The trick is to cutoff the right amount. Shame you didnt get a chance to ride my brothers x2 at tona. His is shortened all the way down to the rear rideplate bolts. Its real loose for an x2. I have 1.5" off my lightweight, but its not enough. Good thing is, if you dont like what you did....x2 hulls are normally like $50 to just get another one......LOL

[Vumad]

The nose mod splashes in your face all the time or on a windy day? I used to get blasted in the face by spray if there was a bit of chop and a bit of wind with the stock hull. I can't image changing the hull from less of a tri-hull to more of a v-hull would worsen spray...?

[tom21]

I've already did 90% of the work Tom. Stop being a slackass like me and lets finish the job! :twak:

feel free to continue.:afro:

[WFO Speedracer]

feel free to continue.:afro:

Apparently there is no need to finish it up ,the X-H20 jury has now reversed their decision and found the front nose mod to no longer be in vogue or cool,I am going out to rip mine off my ski as we speak,I suggest all you do the same ,you want to be cool don't you?:icon16:

[Scorn800]

Cracker whats the deal?
Why do you keep F'n around with the old crap?
Just buy a light weight TRINITY hull already!

[FL-cracker]

Cracker whats the deal?
Why do you keep F'n around with the old crap?
Just buy a light weight TRINITY hull already!

I can come up with 500-600... I am getting ready to buy the 2200 sq ft house I live in.... so coming up with 8k for what I realy want just wont happen right now.:wavey:

[Scorn800]

I can come up with 500-600... I am getting ready to buy the 2200 sq ft house I live in.... so coming up with 8k for what I realy want just wont happen right now.:wavey:

House smouse:crying:
You need a lite weight hull:bananajump:









Just :-):-):-):-)en with you:wave:

[WaveDemon]

I can come up with 500-600... I am getting ready to buy the 2200 sq ft house I live in.... so coming up with 8k for what I realy want just wont happen right now.:wavey:

nice! that's a sweet house.

[FL-cracker]

Yea, my Dad invested into the house and the Market went to chit.... So he is gona loose his arse regardless..... His loss= my gain. :icon16: I could not have afforded the house 2 yrs ago.

[Vumad]

feel free to continue.:afro:

I do want to lift a part from the mold and make sure I'm on the right track. I have a pretty decent working area and some left over materials atm. I'm just a bit lacking on tools atm. I have a line up on a compressor and will hopefully have it next week. I will be able to spray PVA then! :kabong:

[WFO Speedracer]

I do want to lift a part from the mold and make sure I'm on the right track. I have a pretty decent working area and some left over materials atm. I'm just a bit lacking on tools atm. I have a line up on a compressor and will hopefully have it next week. I will be able to spray PVA then! :kabong:

pva is not finicky,brush it spray it on put it in a damn windex bottle it really dosen't care ,please insert next excuse here>>>>>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____________________________________

[Vumad]

pva is not finicky,brush it spray it on put it in a damn windex bottle it really dosen't care ,please insert next excuse here>>>>>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____________________________________

I never thought of spraying it though a windex bottle. I'd imagine that would work pretty well. It is pretty fluid stuff. I'll give it a shot.

[WFO Speedracer]

You can also find these pretty cheap at body shop supply houses if you ever have to spray and have no access to an air compressor ,I did several gelcoat jobs with these before I bought a compressor.
http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr109/wfospeedracer/Prevail.jpg

[crab]

While we are on the topic of hull mods, I plan to deepen the rear chines on mine while the motor is out, after shortening the hull and cutting the rails back it lost some ability for the rear to stay planted in hard cornering. I didn't notice it until I ran some bouy's last season, and kept spinning out around the tite turns. Tubbies made the front hook nice but the rear was a tad too loose to really power thru the sharp corners, going for more of the sxr or 08 SJ style strakes.
http://x-h2o.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=74595&d=1233037819

[WFO Speedracer]

While we are on the topic of hull mods, I plan to deepen the rear chines on mine while the motor is out, after shortening the hull and cutting the rails back it lost some ability for the rear to stay planted in hard cornering. I didn't notice it until I ran some bouy's last season, and kept spinning out around the tite turns. Tubbies made the front hook nice but the rear was a tad too loose to really power thru the sharp corners, going for more of the sxr or 08 SJ style strakes.
http://x-h2o.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=74595&d=1233037819

That would be so easy to do with poured gelcoat if it wasn't a dang SMC hull.

[crab]

Hmmm, hadn't thought of pouring. I was thinking of using to pieces of split pvc or abs pipe the right diameter to create the right shape, then do one layer of glass for the base mold. Then perhaps use thickened cabosil to glue them down solid, any better idea? I didn't want to just start spreading it like bondo and try to grind/sand into shape, wanted to start out with something more uniform.

[WFO Speedracer]

Hmmm, hadn't thought of pouring. I was thinking of using to pieces of split pvc or abs pipe the right diameter to create the right shape, then do one layer of glass for the base mold. Then perhaps use thickened cabosil to glue them down solid, any better idea? I didn't want to just start spreading it like bondo and try to grind/sand into shape, wanted to start out with something more uniform.

The PVC foam that I get from Farco plastics would be excellent for this,you could find a cove router bit with close to the correct shape and route out the shape then use a table saw to cut it into strips,epoxy and screw that into place then glass over it and fair it out with epoxy and microbaloons.:naughty:

http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr109/wfospeedracer/91430-01-200.jpg

[crab]

Whatcha think about just shaping some 4 pound expanding foam, think I have some still.????:shocked:

[tom21]

crab- rear sponsons?:wall:

[crab]

crab- rear sponsons?:wall:Need to get the rear hooked up....:Eyecrazy:

[Vumad]

Need to get the rear hooked up....:Eyecrazy:

Wouldn't rear sponsons do that? It's just a rudder which is basically what you're making with your chines. If you make the rear sponsons so they bolt into the bond line, they could even be removeable.

[tom21]

I was :-):-):-):-)in with him. he knows.

Are you sure you want it on the bottom? maybe do that on the angle on the side/bottom since you will be cornering and leaned over. maybe that will still give you some of the loose back end on carving the surf but come into play while carving on the flat.

[WFO Speedracer]

Whatcha think about just shaping some 4 pound expanding foam, think I have some still.????:shocked:

It will be a lot more work than what I am suggesting,this is the same material they use to make plastic moulding for houses out of,very strong,very durable,very lightweight,it makes an excellent core material and once it covered wwith fiberglass and epoxy it is as strong or stronger than SMC.Read the article below.

The following discussion came about by Russ King's musings over alternative boatbuilding materials. Since I've done a fair amount of fabrication with PVC Foam Board, I felt that this might be worthwhile to others who may have missed it on the bulletin board.

One modern material, that has received little or no attention for building a boat itself, is expanded PVC Foam Board. I use the stuff a lot for such items as tackle center casings and drawers, battery boxes, light weight doors and molding replacements that will either be painted or laminated. I usually use it in conjunction with polyethylene, (Seaboard, Starboard), exterior facings if the item isn't going to be painted. Also to be a replacement for plywood normally used for backing boards on such upholstered exterior items as bolsters, seats, benches, etc.

I just finished a 4 drawer tackle center for a small boat that is fully recessed into the console. The face molding, door and drawer faces are polyethylene, the rest PVC. I'll have that project up on the web within a week or so.

The cost for 4x8 sheets is comparable to marine ply, but when you back out the cost of epoxy encapsulation, it's less expensive by a third if you're not counting the cost of labor. Throw labor in and it's well under half the expense.

It's dissimilar to plywood in the respect of rigidity, (it's fairly limber by comparison), and it won't hold epoxy laminations as well as wood. But it is rot proof, UV resistant, easy to work with, non-toxic, stable, holds a fastener reasonably well, easily glued, (PVC cement), or hot air welded, water proof, highly paintable, and fairly easy to obtain through a variety of plastics dealers.

It takes well to a number of other adhesives, including, polyurethane, polysulfide, epoxy, contact cement, resorcinol, etc. Easy to fabricate using saw, drill, & power sanders. Faces are hermetically sealed and smooth, interior is somewhat course and on the spongy side. Cell structure is closed, will not absorb water. Can be heat and vacuum formed. Tortures easily, compound curves and shapes are no problem, but heat would be required.

If anybody wants to experiment with PVC Foam Board. and can't find a local source, call Mike at Sunray Plastics in Riviera Beach, FL - 561.844.7722. He'll ship, or drop ship, anywhere in North America. Be sure you tell him I gave you his phone number...

Thicknesses available range from 1/8" through several inches. Standard increments of 1/8". Virgin material is white. Reconstituted, which is denser, better machining, & lower cost is deck grey. Other PVC extrusions are common. Pipe, angle, & rod stock.

The specific brand name I use is: VersacelTM (Rigid PVC Foam Board)

For other sources, try HPG International, Inc. and check through their Distributor List...



Calculations show PVC Foam Board to be approx. 26% lighter than Plywood

For quick comparison:

PVC Foam Board:
1/1" (25.4 mm) = 3.2 lbs per sq ft (12.74 kg sq meter)

1/2" (12.7 mm) = 1.6 lbs per sq ft (6.37 kg sq meter)

3/8" (09.5 mm) = 1.2 lbs per sq ft (4.78 kg sq meter)

1/4" (06.4 mm) = 0.8 lbs per sq ft (3.19 kg sq meter)

1/8" (03.2 mm) = 0.4 lbs per sq ft (1.60 kg sq meter)
PLYWOOD:
1/1" (25.4 mm) = 4.4 lbs per sq ft (17.52 kg sq meter)

1/2" (12.7 mm) = 1.7 lbs per sq ft (8.77 kg sq meter)

3/8" (09.5 mm) = 3.2 lbs per sq ft (6.57 kg sq meter)

1/4" (06.4 mm) = 1.1 lbs per sq ft (4.38 kg sq meter)

1/8" (03.2 mm) = 0.6 lbs per sq ft (2.20 kg sq meter)


1 lb = 0.37 kg (3.2 lbs = 1.18 kg)
1 sq ft = 0.093 sq meter
10.76 sq ft = 1 sq meter


Based on 15" x 6 1/4" cantilevered run under 18.5 lbs of pressure.

sample PVC deflection = 3.50"

sample plywood deflection = 0.625"

deflection ratio pvc : ply = 5.6 : 1

Actually this deflection ratio is rather ambiguous, since the closer the end length is to the fulcrum, the more pressure needed to effect the same deflection distance, and vise versa. But this little test shows graphically the difference of flexibility between the two materials.

This section of the boatbuilding tips was hastily done and will undoubetly be expanded as dicussion and thoughts progress. Check back from time to time. Email me with any comments and ideas that you might have...

[crab]

I have some, just hate the way it cuts. I have used the mouldings before at work, and the chit just almost melts when you cut it. I was going to use a big piece of 1x6 to mount the steering stem on to cover the old hole and raise up a bit on my x2.

[crab]

Wouldn't rear sponsons do that? It's just a rudder which is basically what you're making with your chines. If you make the rear sponsons so they bolt into the bond line, they could even be removeable.
Exept I cut the rear corners off the ski like so many do, so there is no more bond line there.......did't realize how much it helps hold the back from sliding out, but do like the fact the corners are gone and don't hit you in the gut when side mounting.