Flat Water Barrel Roll

[Standupjetskier4]

I know there must be A LOT of advice out there for a flat water barrel roll. Please give me and the the rest of us some pointers. I just got a real nice 07 slightly used WammerJet and was out there tryin some flat water barrel rolls today but its just hard when your teaching yourself. I know about the wave making and the s-turn and first learning the Bronco 180. But what do I do from there? Do you use the trim at all, or does that just mess you up. I wouldn't think to use it but maybe there's some secrets out there.

[freestylegeek]

The 4 biggest pointers I can give are:

1. Adjust your throttle so that it's at about 45º DOWN from horizontal. Make it comfortable ONLY when the pole is down. It should be pointing straight down at the tray when the pole is up by your chin. This will force you to do #3.
2. Make sure you're turning the bars all the way to the lock. Listen and feel for the 'clunk' as the turn plate hits the stop.
3. Keep the pole down. As soon as you leave your set up wave, you need to get the pole down onto the hood and leave it there for the rest of the roll.
4. Pull the tray up. When you start spinning, you need to squat down, and pull the tray up to your butt. Then, you need to keep it there through the end of the roll.

[felix5oh]

I'm listening

[K-SCARB]

The 4 biggest pointers I can give are:

1. Adjust your throttle so that it's at about 45º DOWN from horizontal. Make it comfortable ONLY when the pole is down. It should be pointing straight down at the tray when the pole is up by your chin. This will force you to do #3.
2. Make sure you're turning the bars all the way to the lock. Listen and feel for the 'clunk' as the turn plate hits the stop.
3. Keep the pole down. As soon as you leave your set up wave, you need to get the pole down onto the hood and leave it there for the rest of the roll.
4. Pull the tray up. When you start spinning, you need to squat down, and pull the tray up to your butt. Then, you need to keep it there through the end of the roll.

This is definitely easier said than done. I've had the pleasure of the geek barrel role clinic a couple of times and have seen these tips executed and I still can't get that last little bit of rotation to land flat. Yesterday I lost my setup wake timing and got frustrated fast my wife took some video and I can see what I'm doing wrong witch I think will help a lot.

[Fearlessnuts]

I learned through the tips on the X here and mostly by myself out on the Lake for a week while I rode my STOCK 04 for the first time.
My suggestions:

1. Work your setup wake out so you hit it from the side not head on. Usually in that case you will plow into the wave and get minimal height.

2. Practice Practice Practice your approach and timing coming into the set up wakes. It does no go to set up a wake and not use the wake to its full potential in your trick.

3. as you get to the wake pre hop and kick rear of the ski somewhat to the left almost into the set up wake.
a. This gets your pump dug into the water
b. Gets you full brapage as the ski was temp. out of the water allowing the motor to max RPMS.
C. continue having the ski pinned as you launch off the set up wake throwing your body over your head over the left side of your ski.

4. Commitment- Everyone is terrified of it.
but really you have to get the mind set of WANTING to eat Sh*t when you throw your head over your bond line.

5. As you throw your head over, this whole time your handle pole should be on the hood, Bars cranked, still pinned, knees bend and body as low as you can get it sucking that tray as close to your ass as it can get.

The most important is throwing your head over and really committing.
You can almost have your head between your chin pad and bond line in front of the bars. Its not so much shoulder work as you think. When you use shoulders to brute throw the ski over you will look like your doing really awkward nose stabs.

You can watch this Video of me on my 4th day of riding my Stock 04 superjet from Wamilton. I had the advice in my head from the X, but its all about applying what you learn and really forcing yourself to find whats going wrong in mistakes.

Flat Water Rolls
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiAm6TdHUVA)
Hope this helps.
-Mark

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[Goose]

a lil speed always helped me get around on flatwater.gotta keep your momentum up unless you have a ton of power to hit it off idle

[Ericfox]

practice for hours... get bruised arm, feet, and stiff neck.... sleep it off... repeat until you get it... you'll start getting them eventually....

[Standupjetskier4]

practice for hours... get bruised arm, feet, and stiff neck.... sleep it off... repeat until you get it... you'll start getting them eventually....

Wow, you said it perfect. I have a bruised leg and cuts on my hand. And an extremely stiff and sore neck. I did the one wrong thing and bailed on my last attempt yesterday. :nono: I nailed my head so extremely hard on my ski. THANK GOD I've got a strong hull and was WEARING A HELMET. I think it seriously saved my life. I probably would have been knocked out in the water for sure. :splatt:

[ThinMint]

practice for hours... get bruised arm, feet, and stiff neck.... sleep it off... repeat until you get it... you'll start getting them eventually....

dont forget about fractured sinus's and blown out ear drums

my technique i tried to work my stab into the roll with the whip technique which i like due to the fact i see and control what is goin on

[Katie]

I learned through the tips on the X here and mostly by myself out on the Lake for a week while I rode my STOCK 04 for the first time.
My suggestions:

1. Work your setup wake out so you hit it from the side not head on. Usually in that case you will plow into the wave and get minimal height.

2. Practice Practice Practice your approach and timing coming into the set up wakes. It does no go to set up a wake and not use the wake to its full potential in your trick.

3. as you get to the wake pre hop and kick rear of the ski somewhat to the left almost into the set up wake.
a. This gets your pump dug into the water
b. Gets you full brapage as the ski was temp. out of the water allowing the motor to max RPMS.
C. continue having the ski pinned as you launch off the set up wake throwing your body over your head over the left side of your ski.

4. Commitment- Everyone is terrified of it.
but really you have to get the mind set of WANTING to eat Sh*t when you throw your head over your bond line.

5. As you throw your head over, this whole time your handle pole should be on the hood, Bars cranked, still pinned, knees bend and body as low as you can get it sucking that tray as close to your ass as it can get.

The most important is throwing your head over and really committing.
You can almost have your head between your chin pad and bond line in front of the bars. Its not so much shoulder work as you think. When you use shoulders to brute throw the ski over you will look like your doing really awkward nose stabs.

You can watch this Video of me on my 4th day of riding my Stock 04 superjet from Wamilton. I had the advice in my head from the X, but its all about applying what you learn and really forcing yourself to find whats going wrong in mistakes.

Flat Water Rolls
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiAm6TdHUVA)
Hope this helps.
-Mark

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Okay this gives me something to try. My problem is that I feel that I have to jump in order to get height-hence the difficulty with me being able to tuck and I keep donig broncos aka halfway barrel rolls. In your video you don't really jump you just keep small. Do you just have a lot of speed? I have a stock motor but I believe that is what you have.

[Mark44]

The prehop is very big part of rotation.

Mark44

[Goose]

Too much prehop can hurt you also.Big part of flatwater rolls are hitting the setup wake perfect.anytime i go out on a new boat or someone elses ill just prejump and hit my setup wake time and time again till i feel i can do it with my eyes closed and not miss it.on you pre jump you wanna land on the intake grate to get the pump hooked up and the nose to land slightly up and right infront of your setup wake to get the takeoff.when i prejump as soon as i land im that close to the setup wake that i turn the bars right away and wide open

[joshuaeric]

I learned through the tips on the X here and mostly by myself out on the Lake for a week while I rode my STOCK 04 for the first time.
My suggestions:

1. Work your setup wake out so you hit it from the side not head on. Usually in that case you will plow into the wave and get minimal height.

2. Practice Practice Practice your approach and timing coming into the set up wakes. It does no go to set up a wake and not use the wake to its full potential in your trick.

3. as you get to the wake pre hop and kick rear of the ski somewhat to the left almost into the set up wake.
a. This gets your pump dug into the water
b. Gets you full brapage as the ski was temp. out of the water allowing the motor to max RPMS.
C. continue having the ski pinned as you launch off the set up wake throwing your body over your head over the left side of your ski.

4. Commitment- Everyone is terrified of it.
but really you have to get the mind set of WANTING to eat Sh*t when you throw your head over your bond line.

5. As you throw your head over, this whole time your handle pole should be on the hood, Bars cranked, still pinned, knees bend and body as low as you can get it sucking that tray as close to your ass as it can get.

The most important is throwing your head over and really committing.
You can almost have your head between your chin pad and bond line in front of the bars. Its not so much shoulder work as you think. When you use shoulders to brute throw the ski over you will look like your doing really awkward nose stabs.

You can watch this Video of me on my 4th day of riding my Stock 04 superjet from Wamilton. I had the advice in my head from the X, but its all about applying what you learn and really forcing yourself to find whats going wrong in mistakes.

Flat Water Rolls
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiAm6TdHUVA)
Hope this helps.
-Mark

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Very nice work in that video.

[Fearlessnuts]

Okay this gives me something to try. My problem is that I feel that I have to jump in order to get height-hence the difficulty with me being able to tuck and I keep donig broncos aka halfway barrel rolls. In your video you don't really jump you just keep small. Do you just have a lot of speed? I have a stock motor but I believe that is what you have.

Dont worry so much about the hopping, if I "hop" its because it pushes my body down along with the ski into the water and when I come down on that "hop" I stay down, Way down as you see and I really mean throw your head over the side of your ski by the bond line. Forcing this method I am able to do rolls on my 550 off of 2 ft waves! my 550! So you have to get over the mental mind block about being nervous of doing it wrong or eating it. You have to throw your head over so hard and tuck as low as you can. I wish i could be there to help out. As far as speed I have a decent amount but I'm not hauling ass. Just enough to keep the pump semi deep in the water. What is most important in this technique also is how you use your set up wake. you have to hit it at it''s base so you can use your speed and pinned engine to launch all the way up its whopping 1ft face. That will get you your height

I'll be in Daytona FYI to anyone who would like help.

[Fearlessnuts]

Very nice work in that video.

Thanks Josh

[yamanube]

I've got my setup wake down, Ive got the timing down but I can't get over the mental block. Ive got it all the way up to the launch, then I get scared, open up and stab. The season is ending soon, I need to sack up and throw it, these tips and videos help a bunch.

[Standupjetskier4]

Thanks A LOT for all the amazing information, everyone! I think I can really do it now. And I'm actually going to an Eric Malone clinic this Saturday, and the goal is to learn a barrel roll there. I'm hoping that with the best guy in the World teaching me, I should be able to do it! If I successfully make it, I'll post a video sometime. Thanks for everything. I love X-H2O!!! :burnout:

[Standupjetskier4]

So I just got back from the Eric Malone Clinic. It was awesome. Eric, Typhoon Tommy, and Chad Cummings were great. One thing that I learned from Malone is to turn your head and look over your right shoulder when your taking off of the wave.
So, crank the bars to the left, gun the throttle, (that gets the back end swinging up like a pendulum), stay crouched, keep your weight as far over your handlepole as possible, turn your head and look over your right shoulder, and just go for it. I can do all of that except the last step, of just going for it.

Hopefully this helps a little more. I know it did for me. Also, as freestylegeek says, turn your throttle lever down. I couldn't get used to it but over time I think I will like it. Both Eric Malone and Chad Cummings have their throttles like that, and they do great barrel rolls. Chad just won the National Championships in Amateur freestyle in his first ever year competing. Congrats man.

[stredman]

So I just got back from the Eric Malone Clinic. It was awesome. Eric, Typhoon Tommy, and Chad Cummings were great. One thing that I learned from Malone is to turn your head and look over your right shoulder when your taking off of the wave.
So, crank the bars to the left, gun the throttle, (that gets the back end swinging up like a pendulum), stay crouched, keep your weight as far over your handlepole as possible, turn your head and look over your right shoulder, and just go for it. I can do all of that except the last step, of just going for it.

Hopefully this helps a little more. I know it did for me. Also, as freestylegeek says, turn your throttle lever down. I couldn't get used to it but over time I think I will like it. Both Eric Malone and Chad Cummings have their throttles like that, and they do great barrel rolls. Chad just won the National Championships in Amateur freestyle in his first ever year competing. Congrats man.

Is this for rolling to the left?

[Standupjetskier4]

Is this for rolling to the left?

Yes, it is. Most people roll to the left. But if you feel more comfortable rolling to the right just do the opposite of what I said, and pretty much the opposite of everything that has been said so far on this topic.

If your rolling right, you would even want to make your set up wave by turning to the right.

[ThinMint]

did ya get any around...when you do its a goooood feeling haha
lets see some pics or vid

[Standupjetskier4]

did ya get any around...when you do its a goooood feeling haha
lets see some pics or vid

No I didn't, but I will post pics and vids when I finally do it.

[ThinMint]

kool mann...seems like your off to a good start

[Someguy]

i just dont get the part about looking over your right shoulder. how can you look over your right shoulder, when youre leaned over the left side of your boat??

[ThinMint]

immagine your leaned over the ski flat not left or right and your head is laying one the pole to the right
now take tat motion and apply it to the lean and roll

[Someguy]

ok that makes some sense. thanks. now i just gotta wait till i have my new ski built next summer, so i can try it out.

[Standupjetskier4]

i just dont get the part about looking over your right shoulder. how can you look over your right shoulder, when youre leaned over the left side of your boat??

The biggest thing that looking over your right shoulder does is actually makes you spin properly instead of just doing a bronco 180. As soon as I started looking over my right shoulder I started to actually spin a barrel roll. If you have your head turned to the left and down, you will do a nose stab. If you have it turned to the right and up you sill spin a barrel roll. Thats my experience so far. Also, it is key to lean to the left side of your boat and STAY LOW.

[stredman]

The biggest thing that looking over your right shoulder does is actually makes you spin properly instead of just doing a bronco 180. As soon as I started looking over my right shoulder I started to actually spin a barrel roll. If you have your head turned to the left and down, you will do a nose stab. If you have it turned to the right and up you sill spin a barrel roll. Thats my experience so far. Also, it is key to lean to the left side of your boat and STAY LOW.

That's what made me wonder as well. Thanks for all the clarification. Now I just need to get my set up wakes to work better. The wakes are great when I make them by turning right, but much smaller/choppier when I turn to the left. I feel more comfy trying the roll to the left, however.

[jMike]

Setup wakes are a big part.. thing happen a lot quicker than you'd expect so you do have to be on the ball and ready to go for it.. A couple of tips from Derrick K at the Ski Clinic that helped me
1) install a quicksteer like the Blowsion twister nozzle to give you ultimate quick throw, it makes the ski want to turn upside down real quick.
2) when you approach the setup wake ride a little to the left then jump into the wake pre-trough with to the right to get full ride down then up the wake and to get the water buoancy to push you up and out of the water
3) when riding up the wake crank the bars to the left hard, pin the throttle, jump forward and crank yourself to the left (try to bend yourself into a side ways U shape) keep the head looking to the right to spot your landing.. push down on the bars to the left and pull up on the right side to speed up the rotation. try to keep as forward as possible on the ski..
4) in the air try to suck your legs to your chest and stick your head on the front of the chin pad.. spot your landing and try and ride it out.. your setup wake amplitude will determine how much time and speed you need to get all the rotation..
5) a little bit of power doesnt hurt.. get a pipe!

The first pic was real close to a P2P but the second I didnt tuck and my face did all the work in landing the ski

[IceMan]

Good advice!!!

[lvfreestyle]

Too much prehop can hurt you also.Big part of flatwater rolls are hitting the setup wake perfect.anytime i go out on a new boat or someone elses ill just prejump and hit my setup wake time and time again till i feel i can do it with my eyes closed and not miss it.on you pre jump you wanna land on the intake grate to get the pump hooked up and the nose to land slightly up and right infront of your setup wake to get the takeoff.when i prejump as soon as i land im that close to the setup wake that i turn the bars right away and wide open

I do the same thing...if the ski you are riding has enough power you don't need to hop at all, you can just quickly gun it and chop the throttle right before the wake letting the ski sink, then gun it and roll from there. This and the "hop" clears out the pipe, keeps your rpms higher than you think, and sets you up to jump. Also I aim for the moon on every trick and settle for reality instead of just timidly trying to just barely get around.

[B_RAD_BALLA]

i cant wait to try when i have my motor back together. is it a bad idea without footholds? i have some comin in the mail but i wanna ride before i put them in.

Brad

[Ericfox]

you pretty much need footholds... but you can try...

[lvfreestyle]

i cant wait to try when i have my motor back together. is it a bad idea without footholds? i have some comin in the mail but i wanna ride before i put them in.

Brad

You can glue some lifters on the tray sides for your feet to fit under. should keep you from separating from ski. Used to use these before bindings were invented, think first Rick Roy video shows them

[lvfreestyle]

Setup wakes are a big part.. thing happen a lot quicker than you'd expect so you do have to be on the ball and ready to go for it.. A couple of tips from Derrick K at the Ski Clinic that helped me
1) install a quicksteer like the Blowsion twister nozzle to give you ultimate quick throw, it makes the ski want to turn upside down real quick.
2) when you approach the setup wake ride a little to the left then jump into the wake pre-trough with to the right to get full ride down then up the wake and to get the water buoancy to push you up and out of the water
3) when riding up the wake crank the bars to the left hard, pin the throttle, jump forward and crank yourself to the left (try to bend yourself into a side ways U shape) keep the head looking to the right to spot your landing.. push down on the bars to the left and pull up on the right side to speed up the rotation. try to keep as forward as possible on the ski..
4) in the air try to suck your legs to your chest and stick your head on the front of the chin pad.. spot your landing and try and ride it out.. your setup wake amplitude will determine how much time and speed you need to get all the rotation..
5) a little bit of power doesnt hurt.. get a pipe!

The first pic was real close to a P2P but the second I didnt tuck and my face did all the work in landing the ski
Let the engine do more of the work, You are trying to pull the ski around, can tell from your pics.

[nvdutch]

Good info LVFreestyle , How you been long time since i seen u Guys in august ?

[GIL]

Guys, this has been whippen my azz for 3 dam years now and I am sick and tired of defeat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hate to sound redundant, but I NEED to be sure I got this right-

I am going in a straight line
pull the trim lever and make a large 1/2 circle
on exit of 1/2 circle keep trim up for approx 20'
haul azz straight for another 50'
u turn back to my wake
just b4 wake slight jog right
crank bars left while jumping up
rolling to the left and stay tucked
look over right shoulder???????????

[CoreyLKN]

Gil you got any video of you rolling or well trying to roll? :noevil: It would probably help so we can see what your doing wrong or what your missing.

Just a suggestion...

[tom21]

gil I too feel your pain, I am a flatwater retard. I have crappy half rolls all day long. and did about 3/4 in small surf. maybe this is our year???

what I don't understand from what is here is the hopping slightly to the left into the setup wake. are we heading straight for the center of the "U turn"? so bounce the ski left then turn all the way left and hammer it correct? so I'm alomost coming at the center of the uturn from the left after the hop and once turning left I'm riding up the face while turning and leaving it now heading as if I came at it straight on or from the right. :scratchchin:

[stredman]

This video shows the proper motion, as far as I know. It helped me understand the left to right hop before the roll.

Translations welcome.

YouTube - JETSKI FREESTYLE - BARREL ROLL

I can't do it yet. Someday.

[Polish jet pilot]

I feel like crap - Fearless does them all day on a stock motor... Ok I need to assemble the ski and hit the water. Or bust! Great advice everybody, especially the little things that you all mention... I will write all these on piece of paper and "dry" practice them..

[kawyjunki]

This video shows the proper motion, as far as I know. It helped me understand the left to right hop before the roll.


YouTube - JETSKI FREESTYLE - BARREL ROLL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kByk6p4eLyc&feature=related)


Is there anyone on this site that could dub over him and translate in english what he is saying.:thinking: This would help out a bit more. We can all get so much from visual's and get the basics. But maybe we could get a bit more if we could understand him.:fingersx:

[freestylegeek]

Setup wakes are a big part.. thing happen a lot quicker than you'd expect so you do have to be on the ball and ready to go for it.. A couple of tips from Derrick K at the Ski Clinic that helped me
1) install a quicksteer like the Blowsion twister nozzle to give you ultimate quick throw, it makes the ski want to turn upside down real quick.
2) when you approach the setup wake ride a little to the left then jump into the wake pre-trough with to the right to get full ride down then up the wake and to get the water buoancy to push you up and out of the water
3) when riding up the wake crank the bars to the left hard, pin the throttle, jump forward and crank yourself to the left (try to bend yourself into a side ways U shape) keep the head looking to the right to spot your landing.. push down on the bars to the left and pull up on the right side to speed up the rotation. try to keep as forward as possible on the ski..
4) in the air try to suck your legs to your chest and stick your head on the front of the chin pad.. spot your landing and try and ride it out.. your setup wake amplitude will determine how much time and speed you need to get all the rotation..
5) a little bit of power doesnt hurt.. get a pipe!

The first pic was real close to a P2P but the second I didnt tuck and my face did all the work in landing the ski

Staying tucked is one of the biggest things. You'll change the ski's attitude if you "pull up" on the tray (you'll actually be pulling yourself toward the boat). You want your head and the nose of the ski to be the same height off the water. I need to figure out how to do slow motion and overdub so I can explain each step through this video, but hopefully you can see how important posture is.

YouTube - barrel roll # 1

[GIL]

Staying tucked is one of the biggest things. You'll change the ski's attitude if you "pull up" on the tray (you'll actually be pulling yourself toward the boat). You want your head and the nose of the ski to be the same height off the water. I need to figure out how to do slow motion and overdub so I can explain each step through this video, but hopefully you can see how important posture is.

YouTube - barrel roll # 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM9D-J3EmuI)


Yeah, my posture is the right side of my helmet eating my left bondrail just above the frt exhaust outlet. I am now on helmet#6 and I have had to fix my bondrail where I wore my Bell Moto 8 MX helmet and that helmet is harder than the hull. LOL It looks soooooooooooo dam easy in the vids-yet is soooooooooooo dam hard for me to calm down and do. I am gonna cheat tonight and suck down 3 cold beers and then try it. Seein that I don't drink-that should loosen me up ALOT and help me RELAX and just ROLL the dam thing already!!! LOL My problem is my brain-I fight myself every inch of the way. ARGH(and the dump part of that is-I thought u had to have a brain to fight with your brain)LOL

[kawyjunki]

Yeah, my posture is the right side of my helmet eating my left bondrail just above the frt exhaust outlet. I am now on helmet#6 and I have had to fix my bondrail where I wore my Bell Moto 8 MX helmet and that helmet is harder than the hull. LOL It looks soooooooooooo dam easy in the vids-yet is soooooooooooo dam hard for me to calm down and do. I am gonna cheat tonight and suck down 3 cold beers and then try it. Seein that I don't drink-that should loosen me up ALOT and help me RELAX and just ROLL the dam thing already!!! LOL My problem is my brain-I fight myself every inch of the way. ARGH(and the dump part of that is-I thought u had to have a brain to fight with your brain)LOL

I can relate with everything you just said. I roll or attempt to roll to the left. but I can't stop leaning/ or pushing my body to the right of the ski. Involuntary action? who knows!!!

[GIL]

I can relate with everything you just said. I roll or attempt to roll to the left. but I can't stop leaning/ or pushing my body to the right of the ski. Involuntary action? who knows!!!

My problem is-I throw decent stabs to the left-when I try to roll-my body is totally off the left side of the ski-but my upper body is to high and hits the water and stops the rotation. If I could make myself stay tucked, I think it would come on around. As the ski gets higher in the air-I think I am standing up in the tray like I am gonna stab and thats all she wrote. My head hits the left frt bondrail, my left leg nails the left side of the bars, and finally my azz hits the left gunwhale. It's a pretty awesome crash that leaves some really nasty bruises EVERY SINGLE TIME!!!

[madscientist]

i stab well in both directions but rolls feel much better to the right. flat or surf it doesn't matter.

should be plate to plate soon.

[kawyjunki]

My problem is-I throw decent stabs to the left-when I try to roll-my body is totally off the left side of the ski-but my upper body is to high and hits the water and stops the rotation. If I could make myself stay tucked, I think it would come on around. As the ski gets higher in the air-I think I am standing up in the tray like I am gonna stab and thats all she wrote. My head hits the left frt bondrail, my left leg nails the left side of the bars, and finally my azz hits the left gunwhale. It's a pretty awesome crash that leaves some really nasty bruises EVERY SINGLE TIME!!!

Oh yeah!! My tailbone still hurts today, from hitting the gunwhale Sunday Afternoon. But like you said, a spectacular crash. I also forget to stay tucked always end up opening up. I also think I may put a poll saver on as well I was a bit worried once or twice about it last weekend.

[GIL]

Oh yeah!! My tailbone still hurts today, from hitting the gunwhale Sunday Afternoon. But like you said, a spectacular crash. I also forget to stay tucked always end up opening up. I also think I may put a poll saver on as well I was a bit worried once or twice about it last weekend.

Iv'e got a pole rope on and use a short pole and steering-I am seriously thinking about taking most of the slack out of the pole rope so that I CANNOT raise the dam pole during rotation. I think that might help me stay tucked/break me of standing up during rotation. If the pole will only come 6" off of the hood, then u have to stay tucked, right?LOL

[Midlake Crisis]

I am getting comfortable stabbing left and right, now you guys are getting me stoked to attempt the b/r. Is it doable with footholds and a stock 701?

[nvdutch]

yea i do it

[Midlake Crisis]

yea i do it
Excellent. Are you launching off of your own set up wake, or boat wakes?
I saw Mark Gomez' video that says he is pulling them off with a stock motor, but I aint Mark Gomez. . .
I'm 5'11" 175 lbs., I don't know how big Mark is but I know I don't have his skills.

[tightithrash]

I am getting comfortable stabbing left and right, now you guys are getting me stoked to attempt the b/r. Is it doable with footholds and a stock 701?


you can if you come to Pismo this weekend!

[GIL]

Freestylegeek-------------I found a vid with the title 'backflip attempt,almost there'. What engine u runnin with that attempt and is that a oem hull? You were really close!

BTW-U SUCK! u make rollin look waaaaaaaay toooooooooo easy. LOL

[madscientist]

on a 650 powered X2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nw8c721FZw&eurl=http://www.x-h2o.com/showthread.php%3Ft%3D6726%26page%3D3&feature=player_embedded


:pancake:

[orangefinger]

i think i will already fail turning my head right when pinting it down over to the left....my set up wakes are narli though....

[Midlake Crisis]

. . . I nailed my head so extremely hard on my ski. THANK GOD I've got a strong hull and was WEARING A HELMET. I think it seriously saved my life. I probably would have been knocked out in the water for sure. :splatt:
Glad I read this before trying it.
I got half way around a couple of times today but I took one blow to the helmet that most likely would have resulted in stitches and a concussion without the helmet.
After today I do believe I will be able to do it eventually though, thanks mostly to this thread! Just need some nice clean rollers coming in and a clear head to remember all the elements of the technique.

[Kirv]

I learned nose stabs first, then spun harder, and pulled the ski "in" towards my butt with the footholds to get all the way around. if you're used to a nose stab, a half barrel roll is almost the same thing, no big deal to come up short. snaps the head back a bit, but you'll build up those neck muscles after a weekend.

[nvdutch]

I do it off my own setup wake.

I have a stock 701 engine.
But I have wamiltons bars and quicksteer turnplate system,
Wamiltons rideplate,intake grate,stubbie cone,and a 12/17 skat impellor.

But I can also Do it on my brothers bone stock superjet.

I also am 5'8" , 145lbs.

[GIL]

I have beeat the lake for the last 3 hours, drank 1 M U and no go, drank a 2nd M U and started committing a lil more, drank a 3rd M U and decided I need to tie a rope around my nut sack and the other end to the tray!!! This way I will stay tucked!!! I'll report back to let u know how this works.

[sxi4evr]

LOL :lmao:

[joshuaeric]

Best piece of advice I got was to not listen to people who can't do them.

[madscientist]

decided I need to tie a rope around my nut sack and the other end to the tray!!! This way I will stay tucked!!! I'll report back to let u know how this works.

as long as they are cheryl's purse and not her pocket :dance:

[sxi4evr]

im goin plate to plate by the end of this weekend!!!!!!!!

joshuaeric, can you post your avatar pic?

[joshuaeric]

Here you go.

[Matt_E]

Finally I nailed 3 or so today. :woot:
Flat water, off my own setup wake.

[madscientist]

nice matt. congrats

[Ericfox]

Finally I nailed 3 or so today. :woot:
Flat water, off my own setup wake.

Sweet.... and it only took 13,658 posts to do it... ;-)

Joking... nice job man!

[Matt_E]

Sweet.... and it only took 13,658 posts to do it... ;-)

Joking... nice job man!


plus ~10k posts at PWCToday. :haha:

[mcdog]

I guess I better start typing! Congrats.

[Midlake Crisis]

Finally I nailed 3 or so today. :woot:
Flat water, off my own setup wake.
WTG Matt!! Any tips to add, or just practice practice practice? How long you been trying, and what made it happen for you?

[Matt_E]

I've tried for 3 years.
Tips:
Have a reliable ski. I got closer in the first year than in the following two because my ski didn't run 5 minutes without breaking in those two years.
About technique - I used to rotate rather clunkily. The ski itself would be the center of rotation, and I am on the outside. It never really worked out that way.
I am not sure how I do it different now, but the way I do it now feels natural and snappy, almost effortless. The axis of rotation starts at the nose of the ski and goes through me.

[GIL]

For those who can, CONGRATS, you have earned it! For those who can't, I know it sucks being in my shoes. LOL I think I am mad enuf to chew up broken glass so maybe being mad will work.

[gabe1986]

i "landed" about 10 half barrell rolls then my neck and face couldnt take anymore but good thread alot of info

[sxi4evr]

encase none of you guys didnt already know this, DO NOT ATTEMPT BARREL ROLLS WITHOUT A HELMET!!!! i wasnt planning on trying any rolls so i didnt have a helmet but when a big arse wakeboard boat with a bunch babes in the back came around making me a wake i couldnt resist not trying it! lol

i got upside down and pancaked. when i came up it felt like water was in my ear that i couldnt get out. then it started to hurt real bad so to the er we went. :banghead:

sure enough, its a ruptured eardrum! now i have to wait two weeks until i get to ride, which is perfect cuz its 2 weeks until the torch lake freeride :headbang:

[orangefinger]

For those who can, CONGRATS, you have earned it! For those who can't, I know it sucks being in my shoes. LOL I think I am mad enuf to chew up broken glass so maybe being mad will work.


x2

[GIL]

Well. 4 hours at the lake today and something is happening. I need a dam video camera. argh.

I think I am stayn tucked because my head is NOT colliding with the left frt bumper any more. THANK GOD!!! The people watchin that know what a roll should look like said nose was too high and I was not far enuf forward over the pole. Rotation was stalling around 180-200 degrees. I thought if I ever got to 181 degrees it would finish itself out-WRONG. LOL I guess at least now I don't have to cry like a lil beyotch everytime I flop 1 now. I actually took to attemps w/o the ol helmet because my head aint hitting the hull now. Iv'e got enug height that my ears are safe from slamming the lake. Stay tuned for more dis-appointment and self let down.

[Matt_E]

Me. Off my own wake no less. :woot:

http://superjet.smugmug.com/photos/575248584_CSZAw-L.jpg

[yamanube]

It is a total mental block for me, my brain will not let my body roll. I am totally committed all the way up to the wake, as soon as I leave the water I wuss out and go straight into a stab. I can't seem to shake it and don't know how to get over it. I was so psyched about trying a roll yesterday but couldn't bring myself to try..damn.

[madscientist]

the fear is first and fore most the landing upside down. just try inverted stabs first and a couple of pancakes first.

[yamanube]

the fear is first and fore most the landing upside down. just try inverted stabs first and a couple of pancakes first.

I think if I can just get over it and pancake a couple, a few slams will help me break the funk and try to throw down.

[Matt_E]

Just do it.
It doesn't hurt (much).

[kawyjunki]

What kind of speed are you guys approaching the wake at..... 1/4 throttle? I think maybe I need more speed. IDK!!

[freestylegeek]

Freestylegeek-------------I found a vid with the title 'backflip attempt,almost there'. What engine u runnin with that attempt and is that a oem hull? You were really close!

BTW-U SUCK! u make rollin look waaaaaaaay toooooooooo easy. LOL

Engine: Lamey 793 (8mm crank, 81mm bore) non PV, Xscream 46's, MSD single coil total loss.
Hull: shortened (-2.5") SN conversion with lb XFT top deck.
That backflip attempt video was when I had 23lbs of wet foam in there. I'm sealing things back up after replacing it all with polystyrene (about 2 lbs worth). I'm hoping that (and a technique change) will get me nosing them in.

The rolls look easy because they are! When you get the right technique, there's no longer any effort involved. :-)

[GIL]

Engine: Lamey 793 (8mm crank, 81mm bore) non PV, Xscream 46's, MSD single coil total loss.
Hull: shortened (-2.5") SN conversion with lb XFT top deck.
That backflip attempt video was when I had 23lbs of wet foam in there. I'm sealing things back up after replacing it all with polystyrene (about 2 lbs worth). I'm hoping that (and a technique change) will get me nosing them in.

The rolls look easy because they are! When you get the right technique, there's no longer any effort involved. :-)


U suck!!! JK-good job-u make it look soooooooooooo dam easy!!!

[freestylegeek]

... just try inverted stabs first and a couple of pancakes first.

VERY important!
Whenever my rolls get sloppy, I have to go back and do some big, floaty inverted stabs (pole up and knees locked). They really help you get your wave timing. Once you get that back, you can put the pole on the hood and pull the tray up and spin that puppy!

[Cliff]

maybe you can down to gils ride this year and teach us dumbazzes to roll. im ahead of the game, ive got my giblets

[Matt_E]

The rolls look easy because they are! When you get the right technique, there's no longer any effort involved. :-)

That's my experience. Once you do em right, they're easy.

[ksarge91]

Alright, I tried a couple yesterday but am having some problems.

My main problem is that halfway through the roll, I start to go into a stab motion and end up just doing an inverted stab, shooting a big fountain of water and subbing.

I'm being told that I'm starting my rotation a little late, once I already have my height so I know I have to work on that.

Question is, where are your poles throughout the process? Should my poll be one the hood the entire time even during my pre-hop. It seems like I spin on more of an axis when my pole is right down on the hood but then I can't take full advantage of my pre-hop. Should I have it a good foot above the hood during the pre-hop then put it on the hood as I leave my set-up wake?

Also, where the hell should my head be? I just read that I should look over my right shoulder when rolling left??? That can't be right?

I also feel like I should huck it with my shoulders but was trying not too because people say then you just do awkward stabs. What part of you're body controlls the rotation? Does anybody have a picture sequence or something that can show me what my body and should be doing and where my pole should be?

I want to try a couple more on wednesday but would like to actually make some improvement

[Midlake Crisis]

Just do it.
It doesn't hurt (much).

This is a lie.

I can't do 'em yet but I am confident in two things:
1) Wear a helmet (knew that one already)
2) DON'T LET GO (learned that one today!)
I made some improvements but got separated from the ski a couple of times and slammed my right arm into the side of the ski on landing. I'll wait for the bruises to ripen and maybe post in the carnage section . . .

[Matt_E]

This is a lie.Shhhh!!!:shhh:

[Kirv]

Question is, where are your poles throughout the process? Should my poll be one the hood the entire time even during my pre-hop. It seems like I spin on more of an axis when my pole is right down on the hood but then I can't take full advantage of my pre-hop. Should I have it a good foot above the hood during the pre-hop then put it on the hood as I leave my set-up wake?

1) take off with a semi-upright stance. you know, a balanced athletic stance to get the most out of the hop off the setup wake.

2) once airborne, try to tighten your body up into a ball by pulling the ski to your butt using the footholds, and crouching down to get the pole close to the hood. I like to push it over with my shoulders on takeoff to get the ski rotating too.

of course you need to full throttle up the wake and the steering to the lock on takeoff.

pulling into a ball speeds up the spin to get you around. just like when you see a figure skater pull in her arms and legs and she speeds up the spin like a top.

if you take off rolled up in a little ball, then you have nothing to pull in to speed up the rotation, so start the roll open like a nose stab, then quickly and smoothly pull everything in as you're leaving the water to speed up the rotation.

they are much easier to learn off of small 2 or 3 footers in the ocean, then off of boat wakes (never within 100 yards unless it's your friend's boat, we don't want to piss off the boaters), then off of your own setup wake.

hope you get it down, it's a good feeling to nail a clean roll.

[onlyFX-1]

1) take off with a semi-upright stance. you know, a balanced athletic stance to get the most out of the hop off the setup wake.

2) once airborne, try to tighten your body up into a ball by pulling the ski to your butt using the footholds, and crouching down to get the pole close to the hood. I like to push it over with my shoulders on takeoff to get the ski rotating too.

of course you need to full throttle up the wake and the steering to the lock on takeoff.

pulling into a ball speeds up the spin to get you around. just like when you see a figure skater pull in her arms and legs and she speeds up the spin like a top.

if you take off rolled up in a little ball, then you have nothing to pull in to speed up the rotation, so start the roll open like a nose stab, then quickly and smoothly pull everything in as you're leaving the water to speed up the rotation.

they are much easier to learn off of small 2 or 3 footers in the ocean, then off of boat wakes (never within 100 yards unless it's your friend's boat, we don't want to piss off the boaters), then off of your own setup wake.

hope you get it down, it's a good feeling to nail a clean roll.


Well said

[felix5oh]

are you guys twisting your body?

i just keep landing inverted or on my face, i know its got the power but i think my speed is to slow

[Midlake Crisis]

These things are going to kill me. I had a couple upside down landings which are fine, making progress, then I did my stupid panic bail thing again. This time I slammed my wrist on the hood and immediately got it guillotined by the handpole. I am typing this with six fingers and am probably going for x-rays tomorrow. . . .
It is really frustrating not to overcome the instinct to bail - I have hurt myself more by far doing that than all other maneuvers combined. KEEP YOUR HANDS AND FEET INSIDE THE RIDE AT ALL TIMES!
Oh yeah, and my rt. calf is swelling up and cramping so hard I am walking like Tiny Tim.
I think I am out for a week or two. . .
Sure was fun though!!

[fals3illusion]

i tried these about 10 x yesterday and i felt like i got hit by a truck....(might be because i drank hevily last night too lol) but my neck is soooo stiff

I have to work on my setup wakes those vids helped to visualize the process

i KNOW im not getting low enough, i would get 1/2 way around and then my head would hit the water and ripp me off my ski.

i just tried the throttle on a 45* angle well see how that works next time.

also i tried the rope on the ski so i wont pick the pole up, ill tell you how it works when i go last.

Justin

[felix5oh]

i never bail , i just keep landing on my face or om my side

[Polish jet pilot]

[QUOTE=Fearlessnuts;579083]I learned through the tips on the X here and mostly by myself out on the Lake for a week while I rode my STOCK 04 for the first time.
My suggestions:

1. Work your setup wake out so you hit it from the side not head on. Usually in that case you will plow into the wave and get minimal height.

I think if you do not do what Mark says in #1 the rest is futile.... head on is no go for stock/ slightly modded skis...

maybe somebody could draw a wake setup and how you should approach - generaly everybody knows it but......

[Midlake Crisis]

Trying the ol' BR again today for the first time since x-rays in July. . . not getting much farther than 180* rotation but at least I am forcing myself not to let go, and no injuries today which is progress. . .I think I need a pipe.

[Polish jet pilot]

cool! I am still far away from a BR, maybe because I am worried about my eardrums - need to get that helmet. What about that drawing of approach to the wake? I know different folks set them wakes differently...

[jMike]

:bananapowerslide:

[kawyjunki]

This is a great schematic jMike!! I think it shows a bit more than trying to watch a video over and over. You can never quite tell which wake thier hitting, atleast for me anyways; sometimes looks like the first, and then sometimes the second. Got to get this thing dialed in winter is almost here.
Nice job.

[clickboom]

Hi everyone,
I am new to the whole freestyle sport (got my first standup this season). I read Mark Gomez's and FreeStyleGeek's Barrel Roll explanations, so finally today I tried it. I made two attempts, and as you will see in the video it didn't go too well (cut above eye), so I would appreciate if one of you guys who can do this well can tell me what I need to do differently next time in order not to hurt myself more (pushing 40, you know).

YouTube - My first Super Jet Barrel Roll attempt

[freestylegeek]

Hi everyone,
I am new to the whole freestyle sport (got my first standup this season). I read Mark Gomez's and FreeStyleGeek's Barrel Roll explanations, so finally today I tried it. I made two attempts, and as you will see in the video it didn't go too well (cut above eye), so I would appreciate if one of you guys who can do this well can tell me what I need to do differently next time in order not to hurt myself more (pushing 40, you know).

If you're going do do it off a boat wake, and you're spinning to the left (counterclockwise), you need to ride on the left side of the boat, heading the same direction as the boat. That will give your boat the most amount of time on the wave face = more height, and more time for rotation. If you had launched off a head high wave, you would have probably landed 3/4's or further (not cutting your head).

And remember you guys that are just starting to roll, it takes a LONG time to figure it out! It took me 6 months of CRASHING and breaking things before I FINALLY nailed a bronco. Patience is something a lot of people don't mention in their set-up advice. :-)

[freestylegeek]

Here's the shape of the left handed roll set-up wave that I use.

[maef]

Why is it necessary to pull the tray up? I never really figured that out. Woudn't it make the nose go higher?
Thanks!!

The 4 biggest pointers I can give are:

4. Pull the tray up. When you start spinning, you need to squat down, and pull the tray up to your butt. Then, you need to keep it there through the end of the roll.

[freestylegeek]

Why is it necessary to pull the tray up? I never really figured that out. Woudn't it make the nose go higher?
Thanks!!

It's deceptive. We say "pull the tray up" because you it's easier to imagine yourself doing that. What's actually happening is that you are pulling your torso closer to the boat and helping it spin faster.

[maef]

Got it!! Thanks! It is hard however to keep body close to the boat the entire time! By the way, should we use full throttle while launching?

It's deceptive. We say "pull the tray up" because you it's easier to imagine yourself doing that. What's actually happening is that you are pulling your torso closer to the boat and helping it spin faster.

[clickboom]

If you're going do do it off a boat wake, and you're spinning to the left (counterclockwise), you need to ride on the left side of the boat, heading the same direction as the boat. That will give your boat the most amount of time on the wave face = more height, and more time for rotation. If you had launched off a head high wave, you would have probably landed 3/4's or further (not cutting your head).


Thanks for your reply. I am not really sure I understand the "you need to ride on the left side of the boat, heading the same direction as the boat". So, am I supposed to ride behind the boat and jump "out" of it's wake? Does anyone have a video of a proper BR off a boat wave?

Also, am I supposed to pull hard the right handle bar and the right foot right after the take off in order to initiate the rotation?

Correct me if I'm wrong -- wasn't I also supposed to leave the pole much lower?

[Matt_E]

You need to ride behind the boat on the left side, riding towards it.
Pole needs to be on the hood.

[freestylegeek]

Got it!! Thanks! It is hard however to keep body close to the boat the entire time! By the way, should we use full throttle while launching?

Yes, you need full throttle when launching - big time!

[freestylegeek]

Thanks for your reply. I am not really sure I understand the "you need to ride on the left side of the boat, heading the same direction as the boat". So, am I supposed to ride behind the boat and jump "out" of it's wake? Does anyone have a video of a proper BR off a boat wave?

Also, am I supposed to pull hard the right handle bar and the right foot right after the take off in order to initiate the rotation?

Correct me if I'm wrong -- wasn't I also supposed to leave the pole much lower?

Nope, you want to ride on the left side of the boat, outside of the wake. You are heading the same direction as the boat, and turn slightly right to head towards the wake. When hitting the wave, you'll turn right a little bit at the bottom, then HARD left (feel the clunk of the bars) riding up the wave. That all happens in about 1 second.

NO PULLING on the bars!!! Only pull with BOTH feet (up). The boat is doing ALL the work. The only thing you're trying to do is get down and tighten up so that the combination of you and the boat will spin faster. And yes, put the pole on the hood.

Hope that makes a little more sense.

[clickboom]

OK, let's see if I got this right:
http://badspeed.com/temp/br-scheme.jpg

Also, should I even bother with the miniscule wake that my SeaDoo Speedster 150 creates (you can see the size of the wake in my original video), or should I wait for a bigger boat? BTW, why I decided to do my first attempt off the boat wake instead of my own was because it seemed to me like less variables to worry about being that boat wake is steady... Was I wrong? I guess, my question is -- what is the best type of a wake for one to learn BR? Ocean, boat or own ?

[Matt_E]

In order of "ease":

1. Ocean








2. Boat
3. Own wake

[freestylegeek]

OK, let's see if I got this right:
http://badspeed.com/temp/br-scheme.jpg


That's it!

In order of "ease":

1. Ocean








2. Boat
3. Own wake

Bingo.
However, if you can do it off your own wake, it makes the others that much easier. It's like learning to ride on a 550 - every other stand up is that much easier to ride.

[snowxr]

[QUOTE=clickboom;823212]OK, let's see if I got this right:
http://badspeed.com/temp/br-scheme.jpg

Just don't run into the back of the boat, like your diagram suggests

[craven]

All of you people are great, helping each other out with what is probably the most difficult trick to do. It would take a long time to point out every bit of a BR. There are literally a 100 parts to it.
First off, I like to drink but in no situation should you drink while attempting this trick. This trick is all about the head, dont mess with it.
An important thing is the set up wave, no doubt, I perfer the wave last drawn(not the boat wave) this is important. everyone is different, figure out what works for you. Make your wave and turn around and just watch it, figure out where it is the highest. 99% of the time hitting a wave at a angle instead of straight on is better, but try it your way. Get that down first, make it consistent. You wouldnt practice ice skating on ice one day then gravel the next.
Forget the BR, work on an invert sub where you rotate enough that you complete the roll under water. Get these 2 steps down perfectly, less chance of body damage if you take it in steps.
Get video of yourself doing this. then compare it to what you see others doing.
quick steer is very important, make it happen, aftermarket or weld an extension on the stock turn plate. Lifters are also important.
While watching yourself on video compared to others, take note of the major body parts. Where are your hips, where are you shoulders, and most important is.... where is your head?
Ask any gymnast, freestyle bmx person, etc... they will all say "your body follows your head" read that again "you body follows your head"
look back at the video of the guy behind the boat. Watch what his head does. Almost all newbies do the same thing. This guy is awesome for trying it being a newbie. As he approaches the wave his body is in text book form (perhaps not the best angle to his the wave). He is turning in the right way he is crouched as he goes up the wave he is leaning to his left and turning the bars all the way. Watch carefully, his head. As he is going up the wave he is leaning it to the left (perfect) as he lifts off the water his body catches up to his head and he then straightens out his head and actually leans it to the right. his rotation stops because his head stopped leading his body. He looked at his landing and his body followed, by trying to stop the roll. This is the biggest hold back of this trick. the proper way would be to continue to lean his head to the left and look for what should be his landing. In this case it should be over his right shoulder... if he was rotating in the air .Imagine ducking a flying beer bottle by leaning to your left and as it goes by your head you want to read the label, you would be looking over your right shoulder.
Another important thing is to keep your centre of of mass close together. your machine weighs 300 ish you weigh 200 ish, if you were super glued to the hood you would spin faster than if you were 3 feet apart. Watch Malone do a no hander. YOu wont see him lean his head because he has experience and power and his own technique. But look where the handle bars are... they are at his waist or knees. He is keeping his centre of mass together. You will also see his body ahead of his machine in the lead of his rotation.
Now back to you... after mastering the invert sub with a completed roll under water. Look at your video , I'll bet your head leans untill you are in the air and then straightens out as you enter the water. This is because your body is following your head. your head told your body to turn for a bit then stop and enter the water. Think of what would happen if your head asked your body to keep turning? When you do summer salts on the ground you dont tuck your head and then look up as you touch the ground, no you keep it tucked. I recommend doing this in steps .figure out YOUR speed, how much YOU lift the front(which usually isn't much), how much YOU lift with your feet. TAke it slow and safe, in steps, each time try a little faster or turning sooner or leaning quicker. But don't go out and try a BR. Your Barrel Roll will more than likely be different than the next guy.

Let me know if this helps .